Phoenix XXXV: Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave...

[crazed323]

I hope winnipeg gets a team just not mine or any other fans team. We are not the same.

We just may be. I want Winnipeg to get any team, doesn't matter to me.
The Phoenix fiasco is a drain on the enitre NHL. It could be holding up many things. I think at this point everyone wants and deserves a resolution.

 

[Duckhole]

The Phoenix fiasco is a drain on the enitre NHL. It could be holding up many things. I think at this point everyone wants and deserves a resolution.

I agree it's consumed so much of my time it's become ridiculous.

 

[Killion]

.....in terms of his legal trickery (I can expand if you wish)

Please do. Beyond assigning Gretzky's contract back to the team etc, something were missing?...

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Like I said, I could be wrong, but would you not agree the $25M comes off the purchase price MH has already said he would cover? That's $25M less to MH to buy the team. That's 25 million reasons why I think it may tend to show the deal will get done.

How does it make any difference?

You are responsible for bringing the booze ($25) and food ($75) to the party. Okay? Here's $100.

Change of plan. I'm going to pick up the booze myself so I'm taking back the $25. Now it'll only cost you $75 for the food only.

GHOST

 

[sipowicz]

One year ago.....


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...-93293609.html
Winnipeg Free Press - ONLINE EDITION
Glendale council OKs NHL requirements for Coyotes

By: Bartley Kives

Posted: 05/10/2010 12:34 PM
...
The cash will not be paid out to the NHL if a new buyer is found, pledged Glendale city manager Ed Beasley, who described the "hypothetical payment" as a fee to the NHL for operating the arena — not an agreement to cover the team’s losses.

Glendale Mayor Elaine Scruggs called the payment "bridge financing," not an expenditure of public funds. She also expressed annoyance at the criticism directed toward her city.

"This is nothing more than an insurance policy which allows us to move forward," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said in an address to council.

A sale to an owner that will keep the Coyotes in Glendale is coming soon, Daly said to cheers from about 250 Coyotes fans inside the Glendale council gallery.

 

[xtra]

Because its "found" money. That $25M shaves $25M off of the total sale price.

If you assume its found money that is going to the sale price, that still leaves 25 million that has to be paid towards the losses for this year. Who is going to pay that? the other owners or the person who is buying the team?

In my mind it can't be both ways. you can't pay for the losses and reduce the price by 25 million. only one of the two can be done with the money from the COG

 

[goyotes]

How does it make any difference?

You are responsible for bringing the booze ($25) and food ($75) to the party. Okay? Here's $100.

Change of plan. I'm going to pick up the booze myself so I'm taking back the $25. Now it'll only cost you $75 for the food only.

GHOST

I never understood the bait and switch behind the $100 M to MH, with the kick back of $25 to the CoG. What it does effect is now the CoG has to tie $75M to the parking, instead of $100 M. It also means the CoG doesn't need $100 M in bonds. Assume they could subscribe $50 M, you are now talking about a $25 M gap instead of a $50 M gap.

 

[MotorMaster]

I haven't been following the situation like you guys have but why would Matthew Hulsizer want to buy the Coyotes if they are losing 30 million a year... with a good team? how much will they lose when they are a bad team? He must be hoping for one of three things to happen,

1. The Coyotes turn things around and begin to make money, doubtful but possible.

2. The taxpayers will flip the bill for the loses with little risk to his own money?

3. He has a plan to move the team to a place where they can make money?

Am I missing something? I really don't get it.

 

[Grudy0]

Like I said, I could be wrong, but would you not agree the $25M comes off the purchase price MH has already said he would cover? That's $25M less to MH to buy the team. That's 25 million reasons why I think it may tend to show the deal will get done.

However, I'm not claiming it will get done. Been on that branch before and had it cut off more than once.

Try it this way...

City of Glendale put up $25 million in escrow to cover team losses in exchange for keeping the Coyotes in Jobing.com Arena this year while finding an owner for the team. Otherwise, this team was gone last year.

The lease was crafted, but that deal is dead.

Is the NHL going to back City of Glendale again this year to put another $25 million in escrow to have them play in Jobing.com again this year? CoG probably won't even consider it.

Therefore, time is short. Now, as CoG has paid the NHL for the losses, any new deal will have to be rushed, and the CoG will most likely demand their $25 million is refunded.

It's not happening. The F18 has landed on the carrier but the tow line hasn't been engaged. There isn't enough runway to get a deal done now that the old one has been completely scuttled and a watchdog group will simply question any concessions a new deal will bring.

 

[peter sullivan]

I agree. It narrows the gap in terms of financing. A much more reasonable Bond offering of $50-$60M based on the projections of parking rev's far more appropriate than $100M+. Combined with the $25M the leagues received, Hulsizers $70M & were getting pretty close. There are ways to get this done, however, the COG is simply going to have to hunker down & move those Bonds or perhaps they've come up with an alternate financing package, though I cant think of anything else that might suffice.

$70m from matty
$25m from sewers kitty
$60m from bonds
$60m relocation fee for atlanta.

total: $215m.

that covers the purchase price, the losses for both years and has an extra $10-15m for a nice party for the BOG....

make it so gary....both problems solved at once.....then move florida to quebec in 3 years for another $60m and expand into mississauga for $300m.

i should be commissioner

 

[Grudy0]

I never understood the bait and switch behind the $100 M to MH, with the kick back of $25 to the CoG. What it does effect is now the CoG has to tie $75M to the parking, instead of $100 M. It also means the CoG doesn't need $100 M in bonds. Assume they could subscribe $50 M, you are now talking about a $25 M gap instead of a $50 M gap.

And still would have Goldwater Institute claiming it violates the Gift Clause.

That's my entire point. This proposed deal is absolutely no different that the one that was just scuttled by the scrapping of the $100 million bond offering. Or at least I should say in Goldwater Institute's eyes.

 

[goyotes]

If you assume its found money that is going to the sale price, that still leaves 25 million that has to be paid towards the losses for this year. Who is going to pay that? the other owners or the person who is buying the team?

In my mind it can't be both ways. you can't pay for the losses and reduce the price by 25 million. only one of the two can be done with the money from the COG

Actually, that paid for the loses for this year (which MH has already agreed to cover if he buys the team). It is last years loses that were tacked on to the $140M bankrutcy price for a reported purchase price to MH of $170M.

$170 M, less MH $70 M + $25 M for this years loses he agreed to cover, means he still needs $75 M. CoG has said they had subscriptions for $50 M in bonds. We are looking at a gap of $25 M, give or take.

 

[videofarmer]

$70m from matty
$25m from sewers kitty
$60m from bonds
$60m relocation fee for atlanta.

total: $215m.

that covers the purchase price, the losses for both years and has an extra $10-15m for a nice party for the BOG....

make it so gary.

No, don't.

 

[LT_Canadian]

How does it make any difference?

You are responsible for bringing the booze ($25) and food ($75) to the party. Okay? Here's $100.

Change of plan. I'm going to pick up the booze myself so I'm taking back the $25. Now it'll only cost you $75 for the food only.

GHOST

Exactly!

You know I never really saw in print how Hulsizer was going to pay COG back for the 25million in losses. The NHL asking price was $170 million...$140 to buy the team out of bankruptcy and $30 million for the losses last year. All I have even read is that he was putting in the $70 million and COG was giving him $100 million for the parking rights. So where and how do they get the $25 million back from him?

The $97 million dollar 5 year management fee to Hulsizer was a separate issue also which has no baring on this even though that is a joke too. I heard Hulsizer say there are different management types and his would take on all responsibilties of the arena, meaning upgrades, repairs or whatever else could happen but I'm not sure that justifies that high a rate.

 

[goyotes]

And still would have Goldwater Institute claiming it violates the Gift Clause.

That's my entire point. This proposed deal is absolutely no different that the one that was just scuttled by the scrapping of the $100 million bond offering. Or at least I should say in Goldwater Institute's eyes.

All parties involved have said the GWI is not relevant to what deal they craft given the GWI's narrow reading of the Gift Clause. There is no way, absent MH paying nearly double the FMV of the franchise, that the GWI would be satisfied. The only thing relevant is how to cobble togather $170 M.

I believe the parties view a GWI challenge a fait accompli (assuming the GWI follows through, which I do not believe they will).

 

[King Woodballs]

$70m from matty
$25m from sewers kitty
$60m from bonds
$60m relocation fee for atlanta.

total: $215m.

that covers the purchase price, the losses for both years and has an extra $10-15m for a nice party for the BOG....

make it so gary....both problems solved at once.....then move florida to quebec in 3 years for another $60m and expand into mississauga for $300m.

i should be commissioner

You got my vote

 

[PeeBee78]

Like I said, I could be wrong, but would you not agree the $25M comes off the purchase price MH has already said he would cover? That's $25M less to MH to buy the team. That's 25 million reasons why I think it may tend to show the deal will get done.

However, I'm not claiming it will get done. Been on that branch before and had it cut off more than once.

I agree with you on this one goyotes, that 25M is coming off the purchase price. It was always intended to come off the purchase price...it's just that it was supposed to be refunded to the COG. Clearly they've just kicked in 25M to the NHL for the purchase.

....it's also a litmus test to see what they can get away with. Clearly if the GWI allows the 25M to pass to the NHL without a fight the next thing they will try is more creative financing with regards to the purchase....clearly the bonds are off the table...but we do have an enterprise fund....

With a little give from the NHL, Hulsizer and the COG they can put something together....the question is will the GWI deem this as a gift? And at what point will they sue?

 

[LT_Canadian]

$70m from matty
$25m from sewers kitty
$60m from bonds
$60m relocation fee for atlanta.

total: $215m.

that covers the purchase price, the losses for both years and has an extra $10-15m for a nice party for the BOG....

make it so gary....both problems solved at once.....then move florida to quebec in 3 years for another $60m and expand into mississauga for $300m.

i should be commissioner

Two things...it makes me sick that Winnipegs transfer fee would prop up Phoenix but why would the NHL owners just give up that money. It's suppose to go in their pockets not Hulsizers pocket to buy a team.

I don't recall the NHL charging Burke & Gluckstern a transfer fee when the team went to Phoenix.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

I never understood the bait and switch behind the $100 M to MH, with the kick back of $25 to the CoG. What it does effect is now the CoG has to tie $75M to the parking, instead of $100 M. It also means the CoG doesn't need $100 M in bonds. Assume they could subscribe $50 M, you are now talking about a $25 M gap instead of a $50 M gap.

IMO it is just moving numbers around and having the COG pay the same amount perhaps from different sources. It does not change the substance of the transaction, which is that the COG is handing over the money to the NHL and/or MH to pay for the Coyotes and the losses. Of course, there may be other moves planned. Not borrowing the $25MM to give to MH to pay the NHL might make the transaction 'appear' a bit different for the purposes of the gift clause. It change the analysis a bit, but not substantially.

GHOST

 

[PeeBee78]

If you assume its found money that is going to the sale price, that still leaves 25 million that has to be paid towards the losses for this year. Who is going to pay that? the other owners or the person who is buying the team?

In my mind it can't be both ways. you can't pay for the losses and reduce the price by 25 million. only one of the two can be done with the money from the COG

What you are missing in this equation is the NHL will not lose money. That 25M which is the losses for this year were/are to be paid buy the buyer...they have now extracted that from the COG and so the price to the buyer drops by 25M....

 

[LT_Canadian]

I agree with you on this one goyotes, that 25M is coming off the purchase price. It was always intended to come off the purchase price...it's just that it was supposed to be refunded to the COG. Clearly they've just kicked in 25M to the NHL for the purchase.

....it's also a litmus test to see what they can get away with. Clearly if the GWI allows the 25M to pass to the NHL without a fight the next thing they will try is more creative financing with regards to the purchase....clearly the bonds are off the table...but we do have an enterprise fund....

With a little give from the NHL, Hulsizer and the COG they can put something together....the question is will the GWI deem this as a gift? And at what point will they sue?

You should probably research this. The NHL asking price is $170 million. The $25 million was never to bring the asking price down, that doesn't even make any sense.

 

[PeeBee78]

IMO it is just moving numbers around and having the COG pay the same amount perhaps from different sources. It does not change the substance of the transaction, which is that the COG is handing over the money to the NHL and/or MH to pay for the Coyotes and the losses. Of course, there may be other moves planned. Not borrowing the $25MM to give to MH to pay the NHL might make the transaction 'appear' a bit different for the purposes of the gift clause. It change the analysis a bit, but not substantially.

GHOST

Let's hope the GWI views this in the same manner. Obviously they are trying creative things to get money out of the COG....it's a shame that the COG didn't put 50M to cover this year's losses....we might have had a deal by now....

 

[Killion]

I just think they are waiting for the final transaction to go down before they file suit....I don't think it will be too late and they will challenge the agreement on multiple fronts including the fact that the COG already owns the parking rights (assuming bonds are sold with parking as collateral)....

Absolutely. This opinion is very valid & likely probable. However, in & of its own, I find it very curious that Bolick seems confused over the source of the funds and perplexing that they wouldnt seek an injunction pre-withdrawal. Regardless, they do have several other fronts upon which they can file suit as we all know.

You are responsible for bringing the booze ($25) and food ($75) to the party. Okay? Here's $100. Change of plan. I'm going to pick up the booze myself so I'm taking back the $25. Now it'll only cost you $75 for the food only.GHOST

Not workin for me GHOST. You take the twenty five bucks & buy a bucket of chicken. Seventy five goes on the booze. Lets get our priorities straight.

In my mind it can't be both ways. you can't pay for the losses and reduce the price by 25 million. only one of the two can be done with the money from the COG

You kinda lost me there xtra. Heres the math for clarification.

1) NHL paid $140M for the team
2) Lost app, $25M 09/10, $37M 10/11
3) Total Cost to Purchase Team = $202M

4) COG covers $25M in losses
5) MH pays app. $70M
6) COG sells $60M in Bonds
7) Total raised (if COG does sell the Bonds) = $155M

This leaves MH & the COG looking for app. $45M to satisfy the NHL.

 

[Dado]

$60m relocation fee for atlanta.

That would be a bitter bitter pill for ASG to swallow. $10M, $20M even, yeah, probably not worth going scorched-earth over, less than personal guarantees, etc etc etc.

But $60M? Accepting (eg) $110M when the team is being sold for $170M? Eeeh....

That's starting to add up to some serious coinage. As in, potentially, "**** it, if we're going down, we're ALL going down" coinage.

 

[Dado]

The NHL asking price is $170 million. The $25 million was never to bring the asking price down, that doesn't even make any sense.

That's my understanding. In this new reality, in addition to giving MH $100M, the CoG ALSO gives the NHL $25M. That doesn't affect MH's purchase price at all, and increases the net cost to CoG by $25M.

If we were discussing this 10 months ago, it would be different, but the season is done and the money is spent.