Phoenix XXIX: What's the next act? I'm tired of the dog & pony show

[87turbobuick]

According to the Hawks broadcast, about 50% of the fans at the arena are in support of the Hawks.

Normally for these Chicago games during spring training there is 1/3 hawks fans.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

John McCain should buy the bonds.

Sarah Palin can be the underwriter

 

[razorsedge]

First, you argue that Coyotes Team costs cannot be claimed for the arena management fee, then you shift your argument to say that the business performance of the arena will remain as pathetic as ever, so there will be no scope for substituting Team costs in place of direct arena management costs. I expect that your legal adversaries have to stay on their toes for your redirections.

Thats funny. A little debate I had with GSC2 on twitter, I accused him of argueing for the sake of argueing and doing it in circles.

 

[GSC2k2*]

First, you argue that Coyotes Team costs cannot be claimed for the arena management fee, then you shift your argument to say that the business performance of the arena will remain as pathetic as ever, so there will be no scope for substituting Team costs in place of direct arena management costs. I expect that your legal adversaries have to stay on their toes for your redirections.

Well, the fact is that i broke my own rule.

My primary personal rule is never to take as a fact any of the conventional wisdom around here. Hence, when someone makes an assertion that can be tested with data and easily verifiable projections, i am the one that usually does the math and, more often than not, find that the conventional wisdom is nonsense. Here, I made the mistake of not applying the same test to this issue. A bit lazy, admittedly, and somewhat forced by my absence while this issue was being hotly discussed (as you recall, I brought it back up after the issue had been "decided"), but my bad. I have done the math now, though, so no free rides.

If the arena business remains as pathetic as you project, so much for the parking projections, and the extended management fees (i.e. beyond 5.5 years) are going to greatly increase the overall cost of the deal to Glendale. Conversely, if the arena meets the financial performance suggested by Glendale's parking projections, the losses on arena management will be substantially reduced and Hulsizer can still claim the full management fee by substituting Team costs. If there is no intention of substituting Team costs for arena operation costs, it begs the question as to why they are not fully excluded from the lease. Over, and out....

"As pathetic as I project"? Exactly where did I project anything regarding the arena business? I did my calcs on the costs ledger. This has to do with costs, not losses.

Game and set. Whether you admit to it or not is irrelevant, really.

 

[GKJ]

I wouldn't doubt it. Spring Training is going on right now. There is a TON of Cubs and White Sox fans over here in AZ. Many of them live over here because of Spring Training.

Plus it's a weekend, where some people may be able to take off Monday. Many of those people circled this weekend because the Blackhawks were in there.

 

[TGOTC]

Here is the Hulsizer interview transcribed.

http://coyotes.azvibe.com/2011/03/20/hulsizerwalsh-intermission-interview-on-fsnaz-transcribed/

 

[He Lied to Mario]

Perfect example. It's a slide of hand

You mean sleight of hand????

 

[Killion]

That was pretty vague what MH said in the interview Also, he confirmed the bonds were not sold. Very interesting. Fugu, perhaps your source misinterpreted something?

If Hulsizer says the Bonds are not sold, then they are not sold. If he's guaranteeing $75M as indicated below, it explains the rumor & the reason why the Bonds "were not available". They were not sold as surmised by my sources or Fugu's, the terms were being changed, and rather significantly.

RT @TheVoiceDS: Matt Hulsizer says deal needs to move forward. Sent letter to GI and announced he will guarantee $75 mill. GI...the ball is in your court.

 

[GSC2k2*]

The answer is normally people PAY the owner for the PriviLeDGE of managing the arena. Any losses or expenses they incur is the responsibilty of the person or persons managing the arena. If you rent a store in a mall, does the mall pay you? Do they pay your light and water bills?

Ridiculous to the extreme....but god I hope it works. Lol.

Renting a store in a mall is a poor example. Why on earth is it necessary to analogize one transaction to another? What is wrong with simply looking at this transaction on its own?

Arena management companies normally do get paid for running an arena. On top of that, normally arena managers do not come with their own rent-paying anchor tenant who will pay additional rent to the City, as is the case here top the tune of $5+ million per year.

 

[Fugu]

So much for the rumor about the bonds having been sold. They are NOT SOLD. Hulzier just said so on Tv.

That was pretty vague what MH said in the interview

What he didn't say, was he was willing to buy the entire team from entirely his own cash that he has i.e. no need of the bond sale.

Also, he confirmed the bonds were not sold.

Very interesting. Fugu, perhaps your source misinterpreted something?

Okay, my brief stint as Eklund is over. Only I'll actually stop!

final option. relocate the residents of Winnipeg to Glendale!

Good comeback.

 

[TGOTC]

Here is video of the interview

http://video.coyotes.nhl.com/videocenter/console

 

[danishh]

hulsizer's guaranteeing the 75 million eventually


he still wants to use glendale's credit up front, which GWI considers a violation, and COG is still left with the cost of servicing the debt.

 

[Gump Hasek]

thats life man, we'll let a hot chic get away with more, and dump an uggo immediately. FYI: phx is the hot chic.

Financially speaking, in my opinion the Coyotes are actually more representative of an aging welfare case, currently in the hospital, in the ICU ward and on life support. GWI may just sneak into the room during the night and pull the plug.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

No thanks. Snowbirds can't drive for **** over here.

::

and they smell funny.

I'm guessing that there are a fair number of businesses in the greater Phoenix area that are quite happy to have them spending their savings in the area right now.

 

[He Lied to Mario]

The 25 million Glendale will get his there 25 million set aside to cover this years losses,

his there? you mean is their?

 

[OthmarAmmann]

You mean sleight of hand????

No. Feeling frisky.

 

[Fugu]

No thanks. Snowbirds can't drive for **** over here.

::

and they smell funny.

I remember when I lived in Phoenix, a couple of rain drops would bring the city to a standstill, traffic-wise. People didn't know what to do when the roads got slick from a bit of water. Of course, we Northerners had plenty of experience with all forms of precipitation on the roadways.

 

[Egil]

It satisfies their objection completely. GWI's complaint is that the "Gift Clause" is violated because the value of the parking spaces is disproportional to the monies being given. With Hulsizer's contribution of $25M, the total sum of money being given is $75M, which is less than or equal to the value of the parking spaces as evaluated by three different firms.

Without any details, my guess is that Hulzier is guaranteeing $75 mil in parking revenue over the 30 year agreement. If the CoG collects NO parking revenue, at a 6% discount rate the guarantee is worth $13 million, and at 9% is $5.6 mil. So adding up $25mil (which is dubious as well) and $75 mil, getting $100 mil and declaring victory isn't correct. This guarantee is even less if it is a guarantee on just revenue (and not profit).

So, I would classify this more as a PR shot at GWI than an actual solution.

 

[cbcwpg]

I thought that for the GWI, its not the size of the gift that's the issue, but the fact it is a gift, that's at issue.

 

[GSC2k2*]

must of been hard for him to come up with another 5 million. Who else is starting to think this guy just doesn't have 170 million for the team.

Another $5M? You are muddling up the money that he is going to guarantee and the money that he is paying to the NHL.

It is a big whoop..... $75 million is right square in the zone of the three parking studies done. Eliminates any notion of descrepancies between what the city puts in an gets back.

It also means Hulziser and his group are now putting $95 million in towards the $170million team price.

I assume that you get "$95M from adding the $25M escrow monies to the $70M balance of the purchase price? It may be more or less, depending on how much the cash losses are this year.

Wow, how generous of him!

''Take a 100 million dollar loan at high interest and give it to me, and I'll give you 25 million dollars! You'll be rich!''

$25M, plus a revenue generating asset that is going to produce hundreds of millions of dollars, plus $40M for an obsolete arena in thirty years. I hope that clears up your state of .

 

[SuperDave21]

Without any details, my guess is that Hulzier is guaranteeing $75 mil in parking revenue over the 30 year agreement. If the CoG collects NO parking revenue, at a 6% discount rate the guarantee is worth $13 million, and at 9% is $5.6 mil. So adding up $25mil (which is dubious as well) and $75 mil, getting $100 mil and declaring victory isn't correct. This guarantee is even less if it is a guarantee on just revenue (and not profit).

So, I would classify this more as a PR shot at GWI than an actual solution.

You're not stating facts; you're assuming. If you're going to quote my statement of facts, please use facts to support evidence rather than surmising. Thank you.

 

[Larabee]

hulsizer's guaranteeing the 75 million eventually


he still wants to use glendale's credit up front, which GWI considers a violation, and GWI is still left with the cost of servicing the debt.

I'm sure his "guarantee" comes with conditions. It would be interesting to see how it's legally written up. I'm thinking it's just more optics to encourage the bonds to sell by making it seem less likely that GWI could get an injunction.

 

[cbcwpg]

$25M, plus a revenue generating asset that is going to produce hundreds of millions of dollars, plus $40M for an obsolete arena in thirty years. I hope that clears up your state of .

Assuming of course that it does turn out to be a revenue generating asset. No guarantees on a forward looking statement.

 

[SuperDave21]

I thought that for the GWI, its not the size of the gift that's the issue, but the fact it is a gift, that's at issue.

No, not according to Arizona's Constitution where the Gift Clause is outlined.

 

[Dado]

Without any details, my guess is that Hulzier is guaranteeing $75 mil in parking revenue over the 30 year agreement.

Barely $2M/year....?

That ain't gonna pay the piper.