Phoenix XX: Two Weeks!

[trebendan]

I thought I read somewhere that GWI won't sue but would strongly support any lawsuit filed by a taxpayer. Can anyone confirm that?

Also, GWI would never issue an injunction to stop the sale of the bonds. The sale of the bonds is not the issue. The crux of the matter is what COG does with the proceeds of the bonds.

 

[goyotes]

I thought I read somewhere that GWI won't sue but would strongly support any lawsuit filed by a taxpayer. Can anyone confirm that?

Also, GWI would never issue an injunction to stop the sale of the bonds. The sale of the bonds is not the issue. The crux of the matter is what COG does with the proceeds of the bonds.

Clearly, a Glendale resident has standing to sue, and that could still happen. The injuction would be to prohibit the CoG from using bond money backed by excise taxes to help MH fund the purchase of the Coyotes. The problem is, you would need a pretty well heeled individual to fund that litigation. I would expect hundreds of thousands of dollars would be spent to see it through to a conclusion.

 

[cbcwpg]

The only people clammering for them to sue are people in Winnipeg sending them emails telling them to sue.

The GWI has stated publically that they have not received any emails from anyone outside of Arizona asking them to take any action against the CoG.

Winnipeg has nothing to do with this and people in Winnipeg are not emailing the GWI. This about a US city that dug itself a hole so deep the only way they see out of it, is to throw more money at the problem and hope it fixes itself one day.

I fully understand why the CoG is doing what they are doing. They see the team leaving being a bigger financial disaster than the financial disaster of the team staying. I get that. But what is at issue is not the destination, its the road being travelled to get there.

 

[gollybass]

you also have to look at the flip side for GWI, if they sue the yotes leave and the arena becomes empty and westgate businesses leave, people arent going to be happy about paying for it. That would look worse for GWI.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

The lease states the $97M is paid in equal monthly installments over 5 1/2 years. Works out to ~$1.5M per month. If it can clear the hurdle the management fee is reasonable and demonstrate the city pays on average ~$1.5M per month on Arena expenses (remember MH will take over all Arena operating expenses, meaning the city is relieved of that responsibility), that monthly payment of $1.5M is a wash.

That's your opinion. No one expects the GWI to sue out every case. They don't need to sue this out and they will not lose credibility if they don't. The only people clammering for them to sue are people in Winnipeg sending them emails telling them to sue. You have seen nothing, or at least very, very little public outcry over this deal. Regardless of whether you find that hard to believe, it is in fact the public perception of what the CoG is doing. Far more people fear an empty arena in what used to be a cotton field.

But again, hope does spring eternal.

No, they don't have to sue every case but they will file this one. The reason not to sue every case? The other party never goes through with their planned actions.

GI will sue if the CoG executes the agreements and hands money to MH.

I thought I read somewhere that GWI won't sue but would strongly support any lawsuit filed by a taxpayer. Can anyone confirm that?

Also, GWI would never issue an injunction to stop the sale of the bonds. The sale of the bonds is not the issue. The crux of the matter is what COG does with the proceeds of the bonds.

Clearly, a Glendale resident has standing to sue, and that could still happen. The injuction would be to prohibit the CoG from using bond money backed by excise taxes to help MH fund the purchase of the Coyotes. The problem is, you would need a pretty well heeled individual to fund that litigation. I would expect hundreds of thousands of dollars would be spent to see it through to a conclusion.

Why would you need a well heeled individual to fund the litigation? GI would be the one litigating on behalf of the individual, and they are well funded.

You seem to be very sure that GI won't sue and you mention that in almost all your statements which are contradictory to statements made by GI.

And finally, GI sues for what they believe is right. The CoG politicians look more and more like they are voting for soemthing they want rather than what is right for their citizens and in apparent contradiction to state law. Maybe this is why JR got out, maybe his lawyers said there is no way they could do this and he could get dragged down in litigation and have to spend money to defend a suit in order to protect his interests.

 

[cbcwpg]

Clearly, a Glendale resident has standing to sue, and that could still happen. The injuction would be to prohibit the CoG from using bond money backed by excise taxes to help MH fund the purchase of the Coyotes. The problem is, you would need a pretty well heeled individual to fund that litigation. I would expect hundreds of thousands of dollars would be spent to see it through to a conclusion.

It might cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, but that's out of the GWI budget, not Joe Taxpayer. The GWI is there to work on behalf of Joe taxpayer. All that has to happen is a taxpayer in Glendale picks up the phone and tells the GWI to sue, and if the GWI has basis to sue they can, and it costs the taxpayer nothing. The money the GWI uses comes from donations.

 

[pucka lucka]

you also have to look at the flip side for GWI, if they sue the yotes leave and the arena becomes empty and westgate businesses leave, people arent going to be happy about paying for it. That would look worse for GWI.

for serious? Look worse to you. You also made up the part about Westgate businesses leaving & the arena being empty.

 

[LT_Canadian]

The GWI has stated publically that they have not received any emails from anyone outside of Arizona asking them to take any action against the CoG.

Winnipeg has nothing to do with this and people in Winnipeg are not emailing the GWI. This about a US city that dug itself a hole so deep the only way they see out of it, is to throw more money at the problem and hope it fixes itself one day.

I fully understand why the CoG is doing what they are doing. They see the team leaving being a bigger financial disaster than the financial disaster of the team staying. I get that. But what is at issue is not the destination, its the road being travelled to get there.

I'm sure I heard an interview with GWI stating they did have people ready to sue. I don't have a link but positive I heard that because I was listening and wondering if they had someone who was willing to do that.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Have two weeks passed by yet? Just asking. Seriously. The reason I ask is that Dreger has been tweeting for the past few months that he's been assured this would be all neatly wrapped up in two weeks.

 

[pucka lucka]

I am curious why anyone in their right mind would think Westgate was a good idea if it gets boarded up without a poorly attended hockey team hosting games there. You trust those same people, who are now telling you a $200m gift to an underfunded owner, is the best plan. Some might doubt your critical thinking abilities.

 

[peter sullivan]

(remember MH will take over all Arena operating expenses, meaning the city is relieved of that responsibility)

relieved of a responsibility that they have never had....kind of like paying to take over the parking rights of a lot that has never charged for parking.

 

[Faltorvo]

you also have to look at the flip side for GWI, if they sue the yotes leave and the arena becomes empty and westgate businesses leave, people arent going to be happy about paying for it. That would look worse for GWI.

How does westgate become empty when the one study estimates 51 non yotes dates?

Imagine how many more dates they can add if they don't have to work around the yote's sched , all the savings on ice production , the hydro and of course the savings on not servicing a $116m bond at 9%.

Plus even if they board it up they will save 18 million a year on arena management fees.

 

[CGG]

you also have to look at the flip side for GWI, if they sue the yotes leave and the arena becomes empty and westgate businesses leave, people arent going to be happy about paying for it. That would look worse for GWI.

I see you're drinking in what Mayor Scruggy is selling, that the whole city hinges on a team that plays a sport that no one cares about in a half-empty arena in a suburban mall parking lot.

Let's look at the un-flip side for GWI. If the don't sue. Let's say they sit back and watch Scruggy hand over $197 million to MH, and let's say that the non-parking-expert's predictions were a tad off. Attendance at hockey games doesn't pick up (in fact goes down now that people pay for parking) and the parking income, including awesome parking lot naming rights, doesn't come close to paying off the interest, let alone the principal, on the bonds. Millions of dollars of general revenues (taxpayer money) is now going to pay the bond interest, and millions more going into MH's pocket for the incredibly inflated management fee, which of course continues beyond 2016 and ends up costing a whole lot more than $97 million.

How the &*%$ does GWI justify their non-action in this case?

That is by far the worse of the two options for them, and let's be honest here, the most likely outcome if the team does in fact stay.

Sure, 12,000 people will be mad if the Coyotes leave. But the whole town will be a wee bit more upset when tax rates go way up, debt ratings go way down, and services get slashed dramatically.

Do you think GWI is more worried about the collection of hockey fans in Arizona blaming them for the team leaving (when all they did is try to uphold the law) or the entire town of Glendale PO'd that they did nothing while the town full of corrupt officials bankrupted itself?

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I see you're drinking in what Mayor Scruggy is selling, that the whole city hinges on a team that plays a sport that no one cares about in a half-empty arena in a suburban mall parking lot.

Sure, 12,000 people will be mad if the Coyotes leave. But the whole town will be a wee bit more upset when tax rates go way up, debt ratings go way down, and services get slashed dramatically.

Do you think GWI is more worried about the collection of hockey fans in Arizona blaming them for the team leaving (when all they did is try to uphold the law) or the entire town of Glendale PO'd that they did nothing while the town full of corrupt officials bankrupted itself?

The CoG basically ignored all those people complaining about how high their taxes have already gone up.....

 

[Steve Passless*]

I don't understand why preserving Westgate is the most important thing in the world. It's a half-vacant strip mall. Suburban/exurban strip malls close. It happens.

 

[RECCE]

Did someone say two more weeks....?

Glendale’s bond sale for the Phoenix Coyotes may not occur until the week of Feb. 21 or Feb. 28. There have been reports that the bond sale would occur next week, but an official with direct knowledge of the Coyotes deal said legal and financial requirements likely will push it back.

Read more: Coyotes bond sale slated for late February | Phoenix Business Journal

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2011/02/11/coyotes-bond-sale-slated-for-late.html

 

[Whileee]

Did someone say two more weeks....?

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2011/02/11/coyotes-bond-sale-slated-for-late.html

Unreal... it looks like the due to congestion, the flight has been put in a holding pattern. Please resume the in-flight service and entertainment system.

 

[Faltorvo]

I see you're drinking in what Mayor Scruggy is selling, that the whole city hinges on a team that plays a sport that no one cares about in a half-empty arena in a suburban mall parking lot.

Let's look at the un-flip side for GWI. If the don't sue. Let's say they sit back and watch Scruggy hand over $197 million to MH, and let's say that the non-parking-expert's predictions were a tad off. Attendance at hockey games doesn't pick up (in fact goes down now that people pay for parking) and the parking income, including awesome parking lot naming rights, doesn't come close to paying off the interest, let alone the principal, on the bonds. Millions of dollars of general revenues (taxpayer money) is now going to pay the bond interest, and millions more going into MH's pocket for the incredibly inflated management fee, which of course continues beyond 2016 and ends up costing a whole lot more than $97 million.

How the &*%$ does GWI justify their non-action in this case?

That is by far the worse of the two options for them, and let's be honest here, the most likely outcome if the team does in fact stay.

Sure, 12,000 people will be mad if the Coyotes leave. But the whole town will be a wee bit more upset when tax rates go way up, debt ratings go way down, and services get slashed dramatically.

Do you think GWI is more worried about the collection of hockey fans in Arizona blaming them for the team leaving (when all they did is try to uphold the law) or the entire town of Glendale PO'd that they did nothing while the town full of corrupt officials bankrupted itself?

Well GWI also can tell then non Glendale but Arizona res that complain, to take a hike, they had no skin in the game.

So how many Yotes fans do live in the Glen.

 

[Moe Mantha]

Did someone say two more weeks....?

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2011/02/11/coyotes-bond-sale-slated-for-late.html

I do believe I called the next thread title earlier in this one...

 

[RECCE]

Unreal...

C'mon ma brotha, dis is as real as it gits.

Sometimes ya just gotta say, WTF. Can't say it can't do it.

 

[Faltorvo]

Did someone say two more weeks....?

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2011/02/11/coyotes-bond-sale-slated-for-late.html

Very interesting , that would put them in the range of only 11 more home dates left , if they can nudge it to Mar 11 , all that would be left is to try and sell the 7 game home stretch PO push.

 

[gollybass]

I see you're drinking in what Mayor Scruggy is selling, that the whole city hinges on a team that plays a sport that no one cares about in a half-empty arena in a suburban mall parking lot.

Then why is Elman so interested in the coyotes staying?

 

[Alberta Yote]

No, they don't have to sue every case but they will file this one. The reason not to sue every case? The other party never goes through with their planned actions.

GI will sue if the CoG executes the agreements and hands money to MH.

You obviously have some well informed sources within GWI. Are you in a position to be able to share who they are?

 

[LT_Canadian]

you also have to look at the flip side for GWI, if they sue the yotes leave and the arena becomes empty and westgate businesses leave, people arent going to be happy about paying for it. That would look worse for GWI.

I don't know that it's GWI fault if that happens. They didn't build an arena for an owner allowing him to sell to Moyes who ran it into bankruptcy. If an owner came in willing to buy the team but then needed help with concessions and the COG was offereing a reasonable arena management fee this would be completely different. The defense to say that "we need to pour whatever taxpayer money is neccessary because we made an error of judgement in the past" is a poor one.

I think many are fear mongering about the arena. Just because the NHL is not there does not mean it can't be marketed for other things. Arena Football, maybe minor league hockey...bring the Road Runners back or whatever the mind can think of.

I'm not telling you this deal is pooched yet because no one knows that but I have a hard time listening when people say that the arena would be boarded up. We all know that won't happen. They are already paying for the arena they may as well use it.

 

[Faltorvo]

Then why is Elman so interested in the coyotes staying?

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