Phoenix XIXth: Nervous Breakdown

[Gump Hasek]

Somepeople would argue the patient only has the clap.

In my opinion, a more apt description might be that the patient is is presently in ICU and in a comatose state, while at the same time a commission of top physicians are discussing behind closed doors whether or not to either pull the plug or to instead perform risky and extreme measures in order to simply prolong life.

 

[Whileee]

Because they havent' finalized & signed-off on the AMULA & Arena Mgmnt Contracts' with MH, who in turn, awaits' league approval on the deal & his ownership. A challenge alone could shut this process down. Taking bonds to market now, today or next week without crossing the t's & dotting the i's to everyones satisfaction wont fly on the open market. Its' nor really a case of Catch22, its simply the process, and as speculated the likely hold-up is a bad case of the nerves at City Hall with respect to challenge. Why they didnt fast-track this entire package immediately after the December 14th "yay" vote if it was crafted correctly to my way of thinking was something that should have been done with all urgency. Issuing the bonds is step 3, step 1 (AMULA) still in a holding pattern, as is step 2 (NHL). Backlogged. Bunged up.

Hence, the skepticism. The lease was approved by city council 5 weeks ago, but they are still fiddling around with it? To what end? Presumably the COG and the GWI have concluded whatever game of footsie they might have engaged in after the lease was approved, because they have taken the gloves off very publicly in the past week. So, sign the lease and move to step two to get the BOG to sign off. Then go to the bond market to raise the $100 million that you need to give to Hulsizer so that he can buy the team.

So, when Hulsizer says that things should be wrapped up by the end of this month, what exactly is he referring to?

 

[Whileee]

In my opinion, a more apt description might be that the patient is is presently in ICU and in a comatose state, while at the same time a commission of top physicians are discussing behind closed doors whether or not to either pull the plug or to instead perform risky and extreme measures in order to simply prolong life.

"Weekend at Bernie's"...

 

[Coach]

Is it reasonable to suggest that Winnipeg has a reasonable chance at getting the Jets back from Phoenix?

Depends who you ask. Some people say 0% chance some say 100% chance with most people somewhere in between. I would say the chances are better now than they were on December 14th.
The better question is when this will be answered one way or the other. Some people say today some people say in 3 months with most somewhere in between.
Check back regularly.

 

[peter sullivan]

^ im gonna give it a 70-30 they stay....just my gut.

 

[aj8000]

A couple of interesting points in the new parking agreement with Ellman which I believe one is good news for Yotes fans. and one not so much...

The agreement allows the CFD to be used repay loans issued after the signing of the agreement. Therefore, it is possible that the hold up on the bond issue is this agreement and nothing sinister as some posters have indicated

7. CFD.

... that: (i) restrict the CFD to imposing and collecting assessments for the purpose of maintaining the Arena, for the purpose of creating a fund for the construction of the New Parking Facility, for the purpose of paying related financing, administrative, and transactional expenses (not including any amounts owing in connection with bonds issued by the City prior to the date of this Agreement), and for other purposes approved by owners of land in the district as provided below; and (ii) require that the amount of assessments levied by the CFD not exceed the Assessment Limits described below.

(b) The separate development agreement or amendments to the CFD organizational documents (as applicable) shall provide, further, that:

...(iii) specified changes will be made to the CFD's assessment authority in the event the Phoenix Coyotes cease operations at the Arena and are not replaced by: (A) another NHL hockey team or (B) another user that generates equal or better annual attendance numbers.

The signage agreement is also interesting with the 50/50 split in revenue

 

[Killion]

Hence, the skepticism.....So, when Hulsizer says that things should be wrapped up by the end of this month, what exactly is he referring to?

Yes, it seems' so. Uncle Ernie run-amok at Tommys' Holiday Camp; "fiddling about". They do so because the GW's not satisfied, asking for re-writes (damn those network executives & the FCC). As for MH's comment of earlier this month, quite possibly a wee-tad on the optimistic side. Appear's to be a PR campaign just starting to ramp-up between the two main protagonists. You'd have thought Beasley/Tindall wouldve dealt with this last fall, but....

 

[Jet]

I hate to do this, but I had to look into that claim. I now believe it to be a little less than accurate.

Assuming "announced" attendance and "paid" attendance are the same, then what you wrote would only be true for three seasons from 1996 to 1999. After that, there is a decent drop in attendance until the new arena in Glendale brought fans in again for a few season. The two seasons 1999 to 2001 were far less than stellar in terms of attendance.

Have a look here: http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/ind..._average_attendance_since_1989_90/118-2008-09

Of course there is the whole issue of "paid vs actual" attendance, which I won't get into, but it is nicely summarized here: http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/6/3/897211/the-coyotes-attendance-figures

As for Winnipeg's attendance, I think you are very correct that Winnipeg had less than stellar attendance too (despite what some claim here). However, Winnipeg's attendance figures also need to be viewed along side the average NHL attendance of the day (circa 1980 to 1995). I think if you do so, you'll find Winnipeg was drawing about 90% of the leagues average attendance. That's not something Phoenix has been able to do consistantly.

OK, enough with facts and numbers. Back to speculation

I very much like this post.

Unfortunately to many here, facts get in the way of supporting their position.

 

[aj8000]

As for inflated attendance, based on the links provided earlier.

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/inde...90/118-2008-09

http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/6/3/897211/the-coyotes-attendance-figures

One has to wonder if the league attendance figures have actually increased as the reports indicated or is that the bump from the inflated attendance numbers. Maybe average attendance has been flat or having smaller increases over the years.

 

[Dado]

^ im gonna give it a 70-30 they stay....just my gut.

i would have had it the other way around - but this atlanta law suit makes even less sense than the phoenix debacle so it's got me thinking.

 

[AllByDesign]

A couple of interesting points in the new parking agreement with Ellman which I believe one is good news for Yotes fans. and one not so much...

The agreement allows the CFD to be used repay loans issued after the signing of the agreement. Therefore, it is possible that the hold up on the bond issue is this agreement and nothing sinister as some posters have indicated

This would also jive with some of the bond info I picked up on today. The repayment plan numbers didn't jive so they may have found it very difficult ot secure an underwriter. Setting up a CFD to cover the parking revenue shortfalls would assist in satisfying the desparity of the original forecasted figures.

 

[aj8000]

This would also jive with some of the bond info I picked up on today. The repayment plan numbers didn't jive so they may have found it very difficult ot secure an underwriter. Setting up a CFD to cover the parking revenue shortfalls would assist in satisfying the desparity of the original forecasted figures.

Possible, but 1 million/year in CFD money still seems to be a little on the low side.

 

[Einstein Theory]

This would also jive with some of the bond info I picked up on today. The repayment plan numbers didn't jive so they may have found it very difficult ot secure an underwriter. Setting up a CFD to cover the parking revenue shortfalls would assist in satisfying the desparity of the original forecasted figures.

I'm so glad to hear that they will be dusting off the CFD idea

I hate when City Councils get all: "We have grown since our early years and don't want to play the classics any more".

I say: PLAY FREE BIRD!!!! (er; I mean: PLAY CFD!!!!)

 

[RR]

As for inflated attendance, based on the links provided earlier.

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/inde...90/118-2008-09

http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/6/3/897211/the-coyotes-attendance-figures

One has to wonder if the league attendance figures have actually increased as the reports indicated or is that the bump from the inflated attendance numbers. Maybe average attendance has been flat or having smaller increases over the years.

If Moyes's reported "actual turnstile -- drop count" figures are true, I wonder if the NHL might already have another lawsuit snug in its back-pocket and ready to go, seeking to recover all the revenue sharing dollars he received but was not entitled to, prior to the league stepping in to take over in 2008. I'm not sure BK would protect Moyes against a charge of fraud.

It doesn't impact the sale at this point, but it may shed some more light on all the behind-the-scenes shenanigans that have gone on for years even after the fate of this team is resolved.

 

[Whileee]

This would also jive with some of the bond info I picked up on today. The repayment plan numbers didn't jive so they may have found it very difficult ot secure an underwriter. Setting up a CFD to cover the parking revenue shortfalls would assist in satisfying the desparity of the original forecasted figures.

Possible, but 1 million/year in CFD money still seems to be a little on the low side.

I'm not sure how adding parking spaces per se will increase the projected parking revenues, which are already optimistic.

Back when the parking studies were released I pointed out that Hocking's parking revenue projections exceeded the number of parking spaces available. Currently, there are 5500 spots available, and only 5000 of those are available to Glendale during Coyotes games (per the lease agreement). Perhaps someone figured out that they didn't have enough parking spaces to meet the revenue projections.

 

[AllByDesign]

Possible, but 1 million/year in CFD money still seems to be a little on the low side.

Fair enough but we have no idea on what objections the city may be receiving on their underwriting efforts. Heck, we don't even know if they may taking the roaad less travelled and just brokering the bonds themselves.

I'm so glad to hear that they will be dusting off the CFD idea

I hate when City Councils get all: "We have grown since our early years and don't want to play the classics any more".

I say: PLAY FREE BIRD!!!! (er; I mean: PLAY CFD!!!!)

Yeah, last time I saw Aerosmith it was nice to see an almost entirely 70's set list. Good to see the return of the CFD. It brough on threads and threads of debate before. Bring on the Hot-Tub Time machine...

I'm not sure how adding parking spaces per se will increase the projected parking revenues, which are already optimistic.

Back when the parking studies were released I pointed out that Hocking's parking revenue projections exceeded the number of parking spaces available. Currently, there are 5500 spots available, and only 5000 of those are available to Glendale during Coyotes games (per the lease agreement). Perhaps someone figured out that they didn't have enough parking spaces to meet the revenue projections.

I am quite sure they are aware that their initial projections are that of Enron material.

Maybe they can lay some asphalt and re-allign the projections.

 

[ATHF]

If Moyes's reported "actual turnstile -- drop count" figures are true, I wonder if the NHL might already have another lawsuit snug in its back-pocket and ready to go, seeking to recover all the revenue sharing dollars he received but was not entitled to, prior to the league stepping in to take over in 2008. I'm not sure BK would protect Moyes against a charge of fraud.

It doesn't impact the sale at this point, but it may shed some more light on all the behind-the-scenes shenanigans that have gone on for years even after the fate of this team is resolved.

Doubtful that the NHL would be looking to sue to recoup their revenue sharing money since they probably helped the Phoenix franchise fudge the numbers to float them the revenue sharing money to prop up the franchise in an attempt to keep it from failing, even before the bankruptcy claim. The NHL seems to make up the rules as they go along and I doubt that they would have any real claim considering how loose they've played with their own rules in the past.

 

[Killion]

I say: PLAY FREE BIRD!:

Sure. Like the way it was played in the final overture in the Rob Zombie film the Devils Rejects?. That didnt end very well as I recall.

If Moyes's reported "actual turnstile -- drop count" figures are true....

Not likely. I'd hazard to guess he used the same defective odometers on the turnstyles he's still using using on his leased fleets through Swift RR. Based on the low mileage, the buy-out valuation/option on the vehicle at the end of the term for the operator is impossible to meet.

 

[RR]

Doubtful that the NHL would be looking to sue to recoup their revenue sharing money since they probably helped the Phoenix franchise fudge the numbers to float them the revenue sharing money to prop up the franchise in an attempt to keep it from failing, even before the bankruptcy claim. The NHL seems to make up the rules as they go along and I doubt that they would have any real claim considering how loose they've played with their own rules in the past.

You don't see a difference between the league (specifically the BOG) agreeing to a financial concession to an owner, and that same owner defrauding the league out of millions? Interesting.

 

[goyotes]

Possible, but 1 million/year in CFD money still seems to be a little on the low side.

It's $47M over the duration of the lease. That's almost half the bond being repaid by the CFD and not related to parking revenue. Also, Resnick (local reporter with Canadian roots who has followed this closely), stated the GWI saw the value of parking rights at $50M (no public statement from the GWI on this). If the CFD is obligated to pay CoG related to the parking rights, then technically the CoG is not paying too much for what they are purchasing from the team (very close to what the GWI estimated as value) because the balance is coming from the CFD, through Glendale, to MH.

I admit, I am having some difficulty understanding this deal as I can't put all the pieces togather. Maybe that is what the GWI is trying to figure out. Either way, I think today's vote signals another sign the deal is moving forward, not tanking.

 

[PitbulI]

We can talk about how twisted this entire deal is but the fact is, Scruggly wants this deal to go through more than anything and have probably told Beasley to word this in any way possible to avoid the courts.

So, is this council meeting televised or streamed online tonight?

 

[AllByDesign]

It's $47M over the duration of the lease. That's almost half the bond being repaid by the CFD and not related to parking revenue.

Early estimations have the total bond cost (Including Debt servicing) are in the $300 million range.

 

[BrianSTC]

You're right. I have no room for speculating since I am willing to listen to the NHL, CoG and MH. Granted, the track-record here admits a stretch to believe what anyone says. I'm prepared to speculate as soon as one of the parties comes out and says something that leads me to conclude the deal is in trouble, without actaully coming out and saying the deal is dead. Up to this point, none of the players has said the deal is in trouble.

Happy chooseday to you anyway.

At this point in the game, don't expect to hear the deal is in trouble until the moving trucks are on their way to Winnipeg. It is almost a full month after the NHL imposed deadline, so people have every reason to speculate. Remember this deal was "suppose" to be done LONG before the December 31st deadline or that is what we were told...

I can also guarantee you this: When TNSE comes out and says a deal is "imminent", then the papers will be signed within days...not this month after month BS we are seeing with MH and CoG.

 

[davemac1313]

My water Bill...look at my Water Bill...that guy was great, can't wait for a repeat, although that Free Press guy was too Quick on the censor button for my liking....Scruggs did look like a fool with no clue

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Is there a link to a video stream of tonights meeting?