Phoenix Part XXX Hulz, you gotta get a gimmick if you want to get ahead

[cbcwpg]

Why write it at all then? I mean really, what did that letter accomplish? The letter itself wasn't going to provide him the PR stop on TV. Just do the TV spot and refrain from writing a letter that makes him look like a complete dope.

The letter could have been worse. This was the first draft....

 

[Grumpz]

I agree. Someone else pointed out that the Yotes have had more home weekend games (Fri, Sat, Sun) games than most teams in the league, and that seems the only times they even get a half decent showing. That and the evenings where you get a free beer when you stop on by.

I'm not even inclined to give credit for half the attendance present at games with some of the promotions they've had to put forth just to get buts in the seats.

I know it's not a tell all, but when you look at a crowd, and can scarcely see anyone even wearing a Coyote jersey, it's a little bit, odd.

I was bored and looked it up, and made the post. But hey, if you were the NHL and owned this team, what is one of the easiest ways to fill the seats, that won't cost you money?

It's giving the Coyotes the most home weekend games in the league! I know if I was the NHL and controlled the scheduled, I'd do it.

 

[Donwood]

The letter could have been worse. This was the first draft....

I love it, although I would have had him spell Dear, (Deer)

 

[y2kcanucks]

LOL He's self made millionaire, so I'm inclined to agree that he's not stupid. However, I don't think anything about this whole ordeal has been anywhere in the same universe as "logical." So, I guess it's par for the course.

He's working his way into owning a hockey team essentially for free. That's utterly genius.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He's working his way into owning a hockey team essentially for free. That's utterly genius.

It's not for free but it is owning a hockey team w/o having to pay out of pocket for it initially. Eventually, all sides just need to put their cards on the table once and for all.

 

[Retail1LO*]

He's working his way into owning a hockey team essentially for free. That's utterly genius.

It's utterly stupid. Everyone that allows it to happen should be kicked in the face. I mean, nothing in life is free. Unless you're looking to buy a hockey team in the desert, I guess.

 

[TGOTC]

As soon as that guy mentioned Jerry Moyes having home team spirit I knew he was full of ****. GW seems to be operating on the basis that the Coyotes would NOT be a successful financial team in the future, they seem to be happy to say that this team has lost millions over their time here. What they curiously seem to leave out is that this team has been god awful, has had astonishingly bad ownership, and no star players to bring in fans. Every possible thing that could have gone wrong, has gone wrong.

 

[Grumpz]

It's utterly stupid. Everyone that allows it to happen should be kicked in the face. I mean, nothing in life is free. Unless you're looking to buy a hockey team in the desert, I guess.

Your stance is stronger than mine, and you're not even from Winnipeg!

Wow!

 

[Jeffrey93]

As soon as that guy mentioned Jerry Moyes having home team spirit I knew he was full of ****. GW seems to be operating on the basis that the Coyotes would NOT be a successful financial team in the future, they seem to be happy to say that this team has lost millions over their time here. What they curiously seem to leave out is that this team has been god awful, has had astonishingly bad ownership, and no star players to bring in fans. Every possible thing that could have gone wrong, has gone wrong.

He answered a question. Goldwater basically doesn't care about how well the business was run or how well it could be run.

They only care about money being given to Hulsizer as a gift/subsidy without receiving that value back.

 

[Jeffrey93]

http://goldwaterinstitute.org/article/5856

Goldwater lawyer's interview on Phoenix radio.

Interesting that the City of Glendale classed this as an 'emergency' to avoid any possibility of a public referendum on this payout by the city.

 

[crazed323]

As soon as that guy mentioned Jerry Moyes having home team spirit I knew he was full of ****. GW seems to be operating on the basis that the Coyotes would NOT be a successful financial team in the future, they seem to be happy to say that this team has lost millions over their time here. What they curiously seem to leave out is that this team has been god awful, has had astonishingly bad ownership, and no star players to bring in fans. Every possible thing that could have gone wrong, has gone wrong.

They are a great team this year and last. Where's the support? don't say the fans have been alienated because that's the answer of a simpleton.

 

[Grumpz]

As soon as that guy mentioned Jerry Moyes having home team spirit I knew he was full of ****. GW seems to be operating on the basis that the Coyotes would NOT be a successful financial team in the future, they seem to be happy to say that this team has lost millions over their time here. What they curiously seem to leave out is that this team has been god awful, has had astonishingly bad ownership, and no star players to bring in fans. Every possible thing that could have gone wrong, has gone wrong.

Funny, when the same thing happens in a "hockey market", the team might go through a rough patch of a few seasons, but sure as heck won't lose $400 million!

Enough with the excuses. If the City had 17,000hockey nuts, it wouldn't be in this situation. Unfortunately the CoG is about at least 10,000 fans short.

Remember, when I say fan, that's someone willing to pay full price for the following:
Ticket
Parking
Food
Beverage
Alcohol
Merchandise

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

I would agree. His lawyer is with Sidley & Austin in Chicago. I doubt he saw the letter before Hulsizer sent it.

What amazes me it there are some very capable lawyers working on this deal, yet everyone seems ready to accept that the GWI is capable of deciding the deal is illegal. They call the deal illegal yet all they really have is an opinion, shaped by a broader political agenda. No "judge" has decided anything.

If I had to speculate, I would say the modifications to the lease agreement are to make the sale of the bonds cheaper with the full expectation that the GWI will sue after the deal closes. It appears they are looking to make this as lock tight as possible. I'm also not sure that this needs to go before the council for approval, since it only strengthens the deal for the CoG, and the council gave the City Manager the right to negotiate the lease. However, they may put it up for vote next week.

If that is the case, the strategy is pretty solid. Keep the option of selling the bonds and closing the deal open, don't annouce anything until the season is nearly over and hedge your financial bets on both ends.

Those "very capable" lawyers you're talking about on the Glendale side just have opinions, too, same as the GW people. Anyhow, that's what you're hearing in public. If the advice was really so rock-solid behind the scenes, Glendale wouldn't be in the position that it's in. GW has a very strong case. That's the only way to look at this. If GW didn't, Glendale would have moved ahead ages ago, confident that if their deal was challenged, it would be shot down.

And with GW still threatening, why do you think the bonds would sell at all? It's pretty obvious that there is no market for the bonds at the current palatable rate, or Glendale would have sold them ages ago.

The bottom line here is the same as it was going on two years ago -- There is no sensible deal to be had to keep the NHL in Phoenix. Either the team needs a huge amount of municipal help or an owner willing to come in and lose hundreds of millions. This deal won't work because it can't work. It's just amazing that the NHL didn't come to this realization at least a year ago. They should have pulled the plug last summer, Glendale's $25 million or not.

 

[cbcwpg]

As soon as that guy mentioned Jerry Moyes having home team spirit I knew he was full of ****. GW seems to be operating on the basis that the Coyotes would NOT be a successful financial team in the future, they seem to be happy to say that this team has lost millions over their time here. What they curiously seem to leave out is that this team has been god awful, has had astonishingly bad ownership, and no star players to bring in fans. Every possible thing that could have gone wrong, has gone wrong.

So because the team may have been mismanaged in the past, the law should be ignored, and the GWI should look the other way?

They are operating on the basis that the taxpayers are at risk. Period.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

They are a great team this year and last. Where's the support? don't say the fans have been alienated because that's the answer of a simpleton.

A pro sports franchise's potential relocation has a proven track record of fan support hitting the toilet. Where were Expos fans before they relocated? Where are Sacramento fans right now? Where were Seattle fans prior to it? Fan alienation is a very real issue especially when casual-level customers have a big impact on your business.

When the playoffs came around, you saw the fans. But fans won't invest in a business that has the look that it will skip town soon...and especially not in large numbers.

 

[Jeffrey93]

A pro sports franchise's potential relocation has a proven track record of fan support hitting the toilet. Where were Expos fans before they relocated? Where are Sacramento fans right now? Where were Seattle fans prior to it? Fan alienation is a very real issue especially when casual-level customers have a big impact on your business.

When the playoffs came around, you saw the fans. But fans won't invest in a business that has the look that it will skip town soon...and especially not in large numbers.

Is anyone going to argue that the Expos shouldn't have been moved? Not sure about those other cases....

 

[Dado]

But fans won't invest in a business that has the look that it will skip town soon...and especially not in large numbers.

Seems to work for the circus.

 

[TGOTC]

They are a great team this year and last. Where's the support? don't say the fans have been alienated because that's the answer of a simpleton.

I talking as a whole. For most of the time the team has been here they have been terrible. For the first couple of years there was good fan support. People knew who the Coyotes were. These past 10 years have been the worst any franchise in sports has been run along with the Clippers, Pirates, and Raiders. Jerry Moyes did every possible thing he could to run this franchise into the ground. The fans have had NO REASON AT ALL to go watch a Coyotes game between 2000-2009. Combine that with the fact the new arena was built in an area that, I wouldn't say nobody wanted to go to, but was just starting to develop, and a terrible team nobody wants to see then you're going to have major problems. Now we get a good team, but they are going to move? Thats BS, I don't blame any fan for not going to a Coyotes game the past 2 years.

 

[Dado]

Those "very capable" lawyers you're talking about on the Glendale side just have opinions, too...

And if CoG actually went ahead and sold the bonds or forced the issue in court, it would be reasonable to assume those "very capable" lawyers thought the deal was in compliance.

But they aren't doing that, so the reasonable conclusion is that even those other "very capable" lawyers don't really think the deal passes muster.

 

[checkerdome]

I talking as a whole. For most of the time the team has been here they have been terrible. For the first couple of years there was good fan support. People knew who the Coyotes were. These past 10 years have been the worst any franchise in sports has been run along with the Clippers, Pirates, and Raiders. Jerry Moyes did every possible thing he could to run this franchise into the ground. The fans have had NO REASON AT ALL to go watch a Coyotes game between 2000-2009. Combine that with the fact the new arena was built in an area that, I wouldn't say nobody wanted to go to, but was just starting to develop, and a terrible team nobody wants to see then you're going to have major problems. Now we get a good team, but they are going to move? Thats BS, I don't blame 1 fan for not going to a Coyotes game the past 2 years.

Which fan don't you blame?

 

[TGOTC]

Which fan don't you blame?

"any"

 

[crazed323]

A pro sports franchise's potential relocation has a proven track record of fan support hitting the toilet. Where were Expos fans before they relocated? Where are Sacramento fans right now? Where were Seattle fans prior to it? Fan alienation is a very real issue especially when casual-level customers have a big impact on your business.

When the playoffs came around, you saw the fans. But fans won't invest in a business that has the look that it will skip town soon...and especially not in large numbers.

Up until the last month or so there hasn't been any talk from the owners about relocation. There has been speculation among the media but the owners of the club have reiterated over and over that they have every intention of keeping the team in glendale. Count it

 

[NHLfan4life]

Bandwagon Jumpers Unite. They should have been having rallies buying tickets and making sure everyone knows there is plenty of fan support in the desert. But they haven't. Count it

Should? If you live in Glendale, you know why this hasn't happened. Everyone knows filling the arena now will not make a difference in this. Everyone is tired and just wants it to end in our favor. The playoffs will sell out. But it's a damned if you do damned if you don't thing. If we fill it up, everyone will say "where have you been?" if we don't everyone will say "see AZ hates hockey". Blah blah blah.

When we make the playoffs, it's a totally different game in Glendale. We do the stupid White Out (which I never understood why that rediculous tradition moved down here coming from an extinct team) but the crowd is amazing.

When I see comments like yours it reminds me that a lot of the perception of Glendale and Arizona hockey is from the 10,000 foot level.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Up until the last month or so there hasn't been any talk from the owners about relocation. There has been speculation among the media but the owners of the club have reiterated over and over that they have every intention of keeping the team in glendale. Count it

People are not naive. Stop pretending like they are or should be.

 

[Retail1LO*]

Seems to work for the circus.

This isn't the circus?