Phoenix LXXXIV: Planespotting Edition

[cutchemist42]

Is there any amount of money PKP could offer to offset the Seattle decision? Is this being done to truly create a bidding war for the relocated team?

 

[Nordskull]

Seattle mayor tempers expectations but implies it's serious

Chris Daniels ‏@ChrisDaniels5 3m
Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn tells me just now “I want to temper expectations” on NHL to Seattle. “We are clearly Plan B” on #Coyotes. #NHL

For god sake, we don't need Bill Daly anymore to learn what the league plans! NHL now got a new mouthpiece.

Where's Gary Bettman when we need him? I'd like his reaction on this?

Love this STUFF!

This thing is the biggest joke of all, to get a couple more millions from PKP, period.

 

[gstommylee]

For god sake, we don't need Bill Daly anymore to learn what the league plans!

NHL now got a new mouthpiece.

Love this STUFF!

QCB Mcginn is reminding folks that we are plan B after being screwed by the NBA over the NBA kings. He does not want to go through that ordeal only to be disappointed again.

 

[mmajeski06]

Now if we can all agree that the RSE proposal is doomed to failure and the NHL knows this, what if Seattle in fact is plan B, but Quebec has always been plan A? In this current iteration of the Coyotes saga, keeping the Coyotes in Phoenix was never part of the plan. Just a humble proposal I'm making.

Nah, for once I don't think there is any smoke and mirrors here. PHX is plan A. The NHL 100% hopes COG somehow accepts the RSE proposal. Seattle is plan B. For whatever reason, they do not want Quebec City.

 

[Nordskull]

Nah, for once I don't think there is any smoke and mirrors here. PHX is plan A. The NHL 100% hopes COG somehow accepts the RSE proposal. Seattle is plan B. For whatever reason, they do not want Quebec City.

Well great, let em put the team in the Key and see their owners bleed money by the ears.

Just like I'd care..

How will Bettman ask for a proper arena before getting a team if he goes to Seattle?

Let's see.

 

[Killion]

Is there any amount of money PKP could offer to offset the Seattle decision? Is this being done to truly create a bidding war for the relocated team?

Entirely possible cc. Leverage for the league in dealing with Glendale & Quebec.

 

[Final Baton]

Okay so simply, why Seattle over Quebec at this time? I don't see why PKP would even go for a $350-400mil expansion fee if thats what some are predicting.

Because the next place Gary & co. want to relocate to is Seattle.
That's it. Even if Quebec is more ready as of now, the market they prefer is Seattle, so they'll put the team there, even if the first few years won't be great on a financial standpoint

 

[TheLegend]

Politely TL... A Condo (or a townhome for that matter) is assessed differently than a traditional single family home.

Ok....

How about this then....

SFH in Scottsdale...... (listed at $349k). 2012 Property tax.... $1,754.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10093-E-Evans-Dr-Scottsdale-AZ-85260/8044157_zpid/


I'm pointing out that bringing articles out with cherry picked information simply to slag Glendale don't mean a whole lot. Particularly when the article provides misleading information.

 

[go_leafs_go02]

Seattle is a prime market for the NHL. I definitely want a Seattle team miles ahead of a Quebec team. Winnipeg was one thing. Quebec another.

Maybe I'm selfish, but I'm thinking of that 1 extra trip per year down to Seattle to see my Leafs play there. Vancouver is too pricey, but Seattle should be doable.

Let's hope this comes to fruition. Key Arena should work for a few years. It has luxury boxes, a workable scoreboard, and likely a few million dollars should come available for some minor renovations.

 

[Brodie]

Anyone pushing the "leverage to get PKP to pay more" needs to answer these three questions

1. If Quebec City is only in it because it's the market of last resort, then why would the NHL still want to move there if Seattle is realistic enough to use for leverage?

2. If this is all just a leverage play, why are these two very wealthy potential owners involved? What is in it for them? Why is Chris Hansen introducing them to the local politicians? What is in it for him?

3. Why is the mayor of Seattle saying they're plan B if he's heard nothing to that effect from anyone of import? He's trying to temper expectations... why raise them unnecessarily to dash them?

 

[Killion]

Who needs a landing spot?

Well... I.... you.... why.... for someone on Summer Sabbatical you've got
awfully strong opinions on the matter. You live in the PNW or something?

 

[TheLegend]

Say, how is it that Norma Alvarez's house is assessed as a single story bungalow when its really 2 stories, and how come theres no record of building permits with the city or county between 1970 when it was built & 2013 TL?... and those Bids? According to the City & State charters, supposed to be released in full to the public no less than 7 days before a votes to take place.

Dunno Killy.... Joyce Clark was asking the same questions about Alvarez's home in her blog.

In Phoenix you can't even replace your dead water heater without a building permit (been there and did that twice). Glendale might have different rules.

 

[Ugmo]

Seattle is a prime market for the NHL.

Absolutely! Last-minute decision, crappy arena with thousands of obstructed view seats and no finalized plans for a new arena, miniscule TV ratings for NHL games, competition from three other professional teams and a hugely popular college team... prime market. What could go wrong?

 

[Muf]

"Deborah Daoust, a spokesperson for Seattle Center and Key Arena, said Tuesday night that the ice making equipment and chilling system are still operational and have been used in the past for events like the Ice Capades and Disney on Ice. However, she said there had been no discussion, that she was aware of, concerning use for a hockey team. The arena recently freed up the dates that were held for an NBA franchise."

http://blog.seattlepi.com/sonics/20...back-on-the-table-for-seattle-and-arena-plan/

 

[cutchemist42]

Absolutely! Last-minute decision, crappy arena with thousands of obstructed view seats and no finalized plans for a new arena, miniscule TV ratings for NHL games, competition from three other professional teams and a hugely popular college team... prime market. What could go wrong?

It's for those reasons I still like Portland over Seattle IF owner enthusiasm was the same.

Even if Seatlle offers growth, you won't even see it for years since the arena will suck and the USA national tv contract is locked in for awhile. Would the regional contract be large enough?

Why not just give Quebec the team now, make millions off Quebec, get Seattle/Markham their teams within 5 years, and still reap the Seattle benefits when the NBC contract is renogotiated in like 8 years.

 

[Brodie]

that directly contradicts what Daniels reported today... so someone there was being less than truthful with him

 

[Dado]

Someone needs to explain to the Seattle mayor that calling yourself "Plan B" in this situation isn't tempering expectations - it's raising them!

 

[Donwood]

It's for those reasons I still like Portland over Seattle IF owner enthusiasm was the same.

Even if Seatlle offers growth, you won't even see it for years since the arena will suck and the USA national tv contract is locked in for awhile. Would the regional contract be large enough?

Why not just give Quebec the team now, make millions off Quebec, get Seattle/Markham their teams within 5 years, and still reap the Seattle benefits when the NBC contract is renogotiated in like 8 years.

The problem with that is it's totally logical. This is Bettman and the NHL where logic is a dirty word.

 

[Revo]

Anyone pushing the "leverage to get PKP to pay more" needs to answer these three questions

1. If Quebec City is only in it because it's the market of last resort, then why would the NHL still want to move there if Seattle is realistic enough to use for leverage?

2. If this is all just a leverage play, why are these two very wealthy potential owners involved? What is in it for them? Why is Chris Hansen introducing them to the local politicians? What is in it for him?

3. Why is the mayor of Seattle saying they're plan B if he's heard nothing to that effect from anyone of import? He's trying to temper expectations... why raise them unnecessarily to dash them?

Not saying that's what I believe, but it's not too hard to give easy, coherent answers, probably could have came up with other stuff with a bit more time:

1. Not that realistic, current arena isn't good, future arena is up in the air, potential owners have been introduced to public extremely recently, to city officials only 2 weeks ago, etc.

2. To get ready for a future team, just not this year.

3. A politician craving attention is really that unheard of? Also, «Plan B» could very well be a Seattle-centric comment, as in he solely considers it as a true expectations-tempering comment and doesn't get that there could be other options than staying in Glendale.

 

[JimAnchower]

So... what's up for tonight's big revelation? A mystery buyer, perhaps from the Balkans, offers to buy the team and relocate them to Jamaica (Jamaica Bobsledders!) because he wants a company through which he can launder money in a tax shelter country? A relocation to Barrow, Alaska even though it doesn't have the population just to spite northern Canada (Whitehorse, Yellowknife, Nunavut) who, while also very small would try a lot harder to support a NHL team air-dropped into their territories? A relocation to the center of Death Valley because you know, the experiment in the desert failed because it wasn't hot enough? Or maybe the NHL has a Plan 9: take the team to Vegas, organize some high rollers, and literally have one hell of a poker game where the big prize up for grabs is the Coyotes?

I'm going to say the individual is Iberian. The Balkans are in the southeastern part of Europe, while Atlanta is in the southeastern part of the US. Since Phoenix is in the southwestern part of the US, we need someone from the southwestern part of Europe. Ergo, Iberians.

 

[madhi19]

Nah, for once I don't think there is any smoke and mirrors here. PHX is plan A. The NHL 100% hopes COG somehow accepts the RSE proposal. Seattle is plan B. For whatever reason, they do not want Quebec City.

If that the case they better have something cooking to calm the PR disaster in Qc or there going to be a backlash that will make the Paciorety mess feel like a cake walk. First there going to be a call for a boycott of everything BCE and Molson related. I know it not really their fault but they both are the face of the league in Quebec so too effing bad. Then somebody will call for a jock tax on visiting team at the Bell Centre not to mention an end to the sweetheart property tax deal the Habs enjoy. Local sponsors will also feel the pressure to drop the NHL and the habs. And you can't expect the PQ to help calm this mess if anything they spin it as another example of the evil rich Anglo screwing over French Canadian every chances they get. None of this make any sense but Quebec is a political land field on a good day just imagine it on a bad one.

 

[Guyle Fielder Rules]

Daniels, informed but not necessarily correct

Was much more Stern using his bully pulpit to try and make Daniels look bad. He was right about Stern, though, despite the Commissioner's protest.

 

[Killion]

Anyone pushing the "leverage to get PKP to pay more" needs to answer these three questions

1. If Quebec City is only in it because it's the market of last resort, then why would the NHL still want to move there if Seattle is realistic enough to use for leverage?

2. If this is all just a leverage play, why are these two very wealthy potential owners involved? What is in it for them? Why is Chris Hansen introducing them to the local politicians? What is in it for him?

3. Why is the mayor of Seattle saying they're plan B if he's heard nothing to that effect from anyone of import? He's trying to temper expectations... why raise them unnecessarily to dash them?

1. I take issue with your premise. Why would QC be the "market of last resort"? All your doing is flaming 2/3rds of the posters on this thread needlessly based on little more than your own opinion and far from fact, because its a FACT QC would be a top 10, possibly 8 franchise right out of the box & playing in a more than serviceable & frankly beyond decent temporary facility.

2. I dont know, but where did Hansen come up with the money to bump his bids on the Sacramento Kings to somewhere north of $500M, a staggering price, breaking all records, on top of his contributions to the land acquisitions and building of the arena, for a total outlay of over a Billion Dollars for an NBA franchise in Seattle? Are you kidding me? Thats insane money. So trying to apply logic to a Hedge Fund & Derivative Traders Logic, well, good luck. No idea what his connection is with these guys outta NYC but I can certainly make some wild guesses, and its got little to do with the business of hockey.

3. Ya, well, that'd be a first, right? The NHL or purportedly wannabe owner lying to a Mayor or elected officials... Leverage. NHL doesnt care how they go about getting it. They quite literally Extorted $45M from the COG, holding the team as ransom, threats of Relocation, pay or else, sign these papers, no accounting nor performance required. You seem to think were dealing with Men of Honour here Brodie. I wish that were the case, but its not, so take the low road, because its there you'll find truth.

 

[Glacial]

Exactly, not even days ago alot of posters here were suggesting it might be too late for a hardcore market like Quebec. What does that mean for Seattle?

It's interesting to see the same scrutiny people put on QC's efforts fly out the window (can we have a flight tracker on it? ) when it comes to their favorite non-NHL market getting a NHL team. Same goes for their scrutiny on the Coyotes in Glendale for losing so much money. Interesting how hometown/home region loyalty and getting-a-franchise sympathies can color people's perspective and cloud their judgment, even when they showed clarity mere days earlier.

From my perspective, a Seattle NHL team now stands high risk of becoming the Seattle Pilots 2.0. There are too many parallels. Do they really want to arrive in Seattle and start digging a hole? Do the owners have deep pockets to absorb 3 years of big losses minimum? If this succeeds, they would essentially be in RSE's position if they bought the Coyotes and stayed in Glendale (minus the Fortress angle and having a bit more money) or how people viewed the Jamison bid. This is a very rocky start for a Seattle team. From a franchise stability perspective and a profit perspective, going to Seattle now looks like a big mistake. Logic would dictate Quebec City as the best option because the short-term is better and the early long-term is better, but logic has not been a regular castmember in this saga so the NHL may do something illogical, like gambling even further, doubling down on further losses in the hope Seattle will one day pay off from a Key Arena/Coyotes start instead of just sending the Coyotes to QC and expanding to Seattle. It is very possible they are so obsessed with the expansion fee payoff down the road that they are willing to soak up year after year of big losses for that end (LOL if they end up blowing so much money, a GTA2 & QC expansion fee doesn't even cover all the losses!). Other leagues wouldn't be so greedy/short-sighted, but the NHL clearly isn't like the other leagues. It's in a bush league of all its own.

 

[Brodie]

1. I take issue with your premise. Why would QC be the "market of last resort"? All your doing is flaming 2/3rds of the posters on this thread needlessly based on little more than your own opinion and far from fact, because its a FACT QC would be a top 10, possibly 8 franchise right out of the box & playing in a more than serviceable & frankly beyond decent temporary facility.

2. I dont know, but where did Hansen come up with the money to bump his bids on the Sacramento Kings to somewhere north of $500M, a staggering price, breaking all records, on top of his contributions to the land acquisitions and building of the arena, for a total outlay of over a Billion Dollars for an NBA franchise in Seattle? Are you kidding me? Thats insane money. So trying to apply logic to a Hedge Fund & Derivative Traders Logic, well, good luck. No idea what his connection is with these guys outta NYC but I can certainly make some wild guesses, and its got little to do with the business of hockey.

3. Ya, well, that'd be a first, right? The NHL or purportedly wannabe owner lying to a Mayor or elected officials... Leverage. NHL doesnt care how they go about getting it. They quite literally Extorted $45M from the COG, holding the team as ransom, threats of Relocation, pay or else, sign these papers, no accounting nor performance required. You seem to think were dealing with Men of Honour here Brodie. I wish that were the case, but its not, so take the low road, because its there you'll find truth.

How is that flaming Killion? It's been said on here for years, by QC fans even, that the team was going to QC because "there's nowhere else to go". If there's somewhere else to go, that logic flies out the window. So now we're left with your contention that QC is going to be a top 8-10 market... for years we've heard they'd be middle of the pack, just like Winnipeg. We're moving the goalposts now to justify what we want to see happen.

I don't think we're dealing with honorable people at all, K. But the whole thing strains credulity. The NHL is using a guy with more money than any of their current owners save two and a city of 2.5 million people to extort more cash out of a guy worth $700 million and a city of 700k?