Phoenix LXX: Should they stay or should they go now?

[metalfoot]

Genuine question: if the deal couldn't be closed with $308M from Glendale to sweeten the pot, how can it be closed with $0?

 

[GuelphStormer]

ok, assuming there is actually a real buyer still out there ... yeah yeah yeah, i know ... but just for fun ... what tact should the city take?

lets pretend we have the mayor's ear ... so i would suggest

a) the city must go out and quickly get that long overdue report on what a realistic AMF would be. pay $25K or so for it. perhaps just a quick and dirty, one-week one, but from an actual, legitimate expert. maybe demand that the NHL disclose its books (and scream loudly about walking away if they refuse), and further demand that the city see the agreement and all costs between the nhl and aeg? get some real costs on the table. guessing time is over.

b) the city should absolutely demand to know the identify of all investors. seems like a no-brainer, but if the city intends to re-enter the amf negotiation game, then it must at least know who its negotiating with.

c) should the city bake a batch of cupcakes and ask gwi to come in and guide them towards a suitable agreement? or, would that be pouring water on a simmering grease fire?

d) should the city play nice with gary? should it even entertain the idea of, say, even a $4M amf this year? might help with a) above

e) what else?

only "rule" ... please dont poo-poo those of us who might want to play. if you think its a fruitless exercise and no hope remains, fine. but let's not repeatedly keep saying that. but just for sh**s and giggles, let's see what we can come up with to help the mayor save this team.

when we are done, we can email it to him.

 

[XX]

Genuine question: if the deal couldn't be closed with $308M from Glendale to sweeten the pot, how can it be closed with $0?

Glendale could cut $50 million off that deal and save face. It wouldn't change your year to year projections drastically. Remember that the $300 million was over 20 years. Treliving is the only real buyer that I'd ever take seriously, but he has given no indication he is interested.

 

[mmajeski06]

Genuine question: if the deal couldn't be closed with $308M from Glendale to sweeten the pot, how can it be closed with $0?

It can't. All of this is aimed at hoping someone miraculously appears out of no where, and to help put some butts in seats for the rest of the season.
Who's showing up if the Coyotes and NHL came out saying that the deal is done and the Coyotes are screwed?

 

[madhi19]

Jim Treliving is out. At some point Bob McCoy even revealed that he was buying it only to learn later in the same show that the guy took one look at the books and walked away.

 

[GF]

It can't. All of this is aimed at hoping someone miraculously appears out of no where, and to help put some butts in seats for the rest of the season.
Who's showing up if the Coyotes and NHL came out saying that the deal is done and the Coyotes are screwed?

Does anyone think a knight in a shining armour will really come up at the last minute? I am pretty sure, all fans know the jig is up.

My answer is, at this point, it wouldn't make any difference. It may even help, people knowing this is their last season might show up just to see them while they're still there. Maybe not. But with 8500 "claimed" attendance, there's not much to lose anyway.

 

[madhi19]

I got a good one.
Phoenix LXXI Can you hear the sound of the fat lady singing?

 

[HamiltonFan]

We discussed this a few pages ago in response to somebody else's question, but why does everyone keep saying the relocation price is less than the expansion fee? On top of that, no way in hell is the Quebec City market as valuable to the league as GTA2 - why would anyone expect that PKP would be willing or able to pay the league as much for an expansion franchise as a Toronto ownership group? None of that makes sense, and no one here has been able to plausibly explain it.

Hell, no one here has even been able to explain why Quebec City supposedly would be able to pay a higher expansion fee than Seattle - "because they're Canadian", which seems to be the implication, doesn't seem that plausible to me.

It's quite baffling, isn't it? The exceedingly simple concept that any given city pays the same total amount for a team whether through expansion or relocation is a concept that is simply not grasped by many people on these boards. It's kind of hard to understand why. Your time is probably better spent banging your head against a brick wall rather than trying to dispel the myth that the nhl is 'saving' southern ontario for the lucrative expansion fees.

Killion:
Your post a few pages back about expansion fees being the same for prospective teams in the same year, just because that has been the case in previous expansions, was very disappointing. If the nhl were to expand to Markham and Seattle in the same year, then the expansion fee for Markham would be far higher than Seattle. Just because past expansions had identical entry fees due to the markets themselves being relatively equal, doesn't mean that 2 'unequal' markets expanding in the same year would have to be the same price.

 

[Puckschmuck*]

I got a good one.
Phoenix LXXI Can you hear the sound of the fat lady singing?

This would be an appropriate thread title once the Coyotes are eliminated from the season, be it regular or playoff. Let's wait until then to use it.

 

[XX]

The league can't feign interest here this time, though. They have to deal with the city, which makes everything a matter of public record. We will be able to easily tell if this new investor is just a giant ploy.

 

[HamiltonFan]

The League/Teams would actually pay more in Revenue Sharing if the 'Yotes move - it would just shuffle around who gets the $$$. Under the new CBA, the League is committed to sharing 6.055% of HRR.

Higher HRR from Quebec would lead to increased Revenue Sharing costs plus increased salary costs due to a higher cap.

This is true at the moment, but you have to look to the future. When the next CBA is agreed to (after the obligatory lockout of course), if some southern teams have moved north, then that 6.055% figure can go down, as there would not only be less welfare teams to prop up, but there would also be more stable teams able to put money into the revenue sharing.

 

[aj8000]

It can't. All of this is aimed at hoping someone miraculously appears out of no where, and to help put some butts in seats for the rest of the season.
Who's showing up if the Coyotes and NHL came out saying that the deal is done and the Coyotes are screwed?

If they announced a sale to Quebec now, they would just need to charter five Boeing 767-400 aircraft from Quebec to Phoenix once a day until the end of the season and the place would full assuming 8000 STH already.

 

[cbcwpg]

National Hockey League Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly Friday released the following statement regarding the Phoenix Coyotes sale process:

"We remain hopeful the Coyotes sale process will be resolved successfully and we will continue to work with the City of Glendale to move the process forward."

Can't believe ( or is it beleve ) that Daly pulled that ol' line out of the rolodex of statements to give to the public. At least try to change the wording a little. I mean, seriously, I don't think people are buying it anymore...

For those who care... a link to all the whitewash statements from all the players on Friday.

http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/02/...nding_coyotes.html?blockID=857621&feedID=3702

 

[Vinc360]

I'll say what I said last night again... QC doesn't have an owner who is ready to spend 300-400 million on an expansion team, Seattle most likely does... how can the NHL get more money out of an expansion team in Quebec rather than Seattle? I still don't understand this. The TV market thing is also ridiculous, people said the exact same thing about Atlanta>Winnipeg. Gate revenues are still far more important than TV revenues in the NHL and Quebec, like I said, is at an all time high in terms of interest to receive a team. Sure, they'll always take it, but right now would be the best time for the NHL to give that market back a team. PKP is a smart business man, if Seattle is offered a team first he'll growl and lower his offer. Bettman knows this. Bettman also hinted numerous times at the fact that Quebec City was next. Here's an article about it (in French): http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/sp...e-favorable-pour-les-partisans-depouilles.php

There's also a video where he said that a few pages back. There's also the fact that Seattle is just flat out not ready. I literally just don't understand why people would even think Seattle could get the team over Quebec if the Coyotes were to relocate over the summer... can someone enlighten me with counter arguments? I didn't say I thought it "wasn't right" that QC wouldn't get the team, I just said it makes a ton more sense and I explained why.

 

[CBJ goalie]

Sorry if this has been posted before, but an interesting tweet:

bruce dowbiggin

@dowbboy
When, not if, Jamison's house of cards collapses, look for Calgary oil $$ to try to ride to Bettman's rescue in Phoenix.
5:40 p.m. Thu, Jan 31 from Plantation, FL

This is from Bruce Dowbiggin of The Globe & Mail.

Here's a link to his tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/dowbboy/status/297036676608434176?p=v

Calgary oil $$????? Don't you just love cryptic messages?

 

[XX]

Calgary oil $$????? Don't you just love cryptic messages?

Bill Gallacher, owner of the Portland Winterhawks. Billionaire from oil. Rumored to be in on several teams that have recently come up for sale.

 

[MoreOrr]

I'll say what I said last night again... QC doesn't have an owner who is ready to spend 300-400 million on an expansion team, Seattle most likely does... how can the NHL get more money out of an expansion team in Quebec rather than Seattle? I still don't understand this. The TV market thing is also ridiculous, people said the exact same thing about Atlanta>Winnipeg. Gate revenues are still far more important than TV revenues in the NHL and Quebec, like I said, is at an all time high in terms of interest to receive a team. Sure, they'll always take it, but right now would be the best time for the NHL to give that market back a team. PKP is a smart business man, if Seattle is offered a team first he'll growl and lower his offer. Bettman knows this. Bettman also hinted numerous times at the fact that Quebec City was next. Here's an article about it (in French): http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/sp...e-favorable-pour-les-partisans-depouilles.php

They're in the process of building the new arena, an obvious expense. Getting the Coyotes in relocation fees would be another expense. And is the old Colisée completely ready for a 2 year resident, or would that be another expense?

 

[MoreOrr]

Bill Gallacher, owner of the Portland Winterhawks. Billionaire from oil. Rumored to be in on several teams that have recently come up for sale.

Comments like that excite me. Sorry though, not for the sake of Phoenix, forgive me.

 

[Major4Boarding]

I literally just don't understand why people would even think Seattle could get the team over Quebec if the Coyotes were to relocate over the summer... can someone enlighten me with counter arguments? I didn't say I thought it "wasn't right" that QC wouldn't get the team, I just said it makes a ton more sense and I explained why.

If they absolutely pack this franchise up over the summer, then yes by all means it should be turned over to Quebec City. Especially given that there's been no resolution of the Hansen bid for the Kings or an awarding of expansion to Seattle by the NBA.

What I meant by a wrong turned to a right was my feeling that it was wrong (the circumstances) and sad how and why the Nordiques left and be to be returned would make it right.

 

[Vinc360]

They're in the process of building the new arena, an obvious expense. Getting the Coyotes in relocation fees would be another expense. And is the old Colisée completely ready for a 2 year resident, or would that be another expense?

Those expenses are made by different people... Arena is built with public funds (though a 30 million dollar fee is paid by PKP to have TV studios in it, a completely separate investment). Colisee's renovations have to be made anyway, are fairly cheap and will be done by the city, not PKP.

PKP has a lot of money, yes, but his capital is grossly overestimated around these parts I believe. Did everyone forget his bid for the Montreal Canadiens a few years back?

 

[Major4Boarding]

They're in the process of building the new arena, an obvious expense. Getting the Coyotes in relocation fees would be another expense. And is the old Colisée completely ready for a 2 year resident, or would that be another expense?

Yes it is. It could house the team till the new facility is finished. They've already retro'd it quite some time ago IIRC

 

[powerstuck]

I'll say what I said last night again... QC doesn't have an owner who is ready to spend 300-400 million on an expansion team, Seattle most likely does... how can the NHL get more money out of an expansion team in Quebec rather than Seattle? I still don't understand this. The TV market thing is also ridiculous, people said the exact same thing about Atlanta>Winnipeg. Gate revenues are still far more important than TV revenues in the NHL and Quebec, like I said, is at an all time high in terms of interest to receive a team. Sure, they'll always take it, but right now would be the best time for the NHL to give that market back a team. PKP is a smart business man, if Seattle is offered a team first he'll growl and lower his offer. Bettman knows this. Bettman also hinted numerous times at the fact that Quebec City was next. Here's an article about it (in French): http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/sp...e-favorable-pour-les-partisans-depouilles.php

There's also a video where he said that a few pages back. There's also the fact that Seattle is just flat out not ready. I literally just don't understand why people would even think Seattle could get the team over Quebec if the Coyotes were to relocate over the summer... can someone enlighten me with counter arguments? I didn't say I thought it "wasn't right" that QC wouldn't get the team, I just said it makes a ton more sense and I explained why.

Can you pass some of the stuff you smoking there mate ?

PKP may not be willing to drop $400M on a team, but $300M would not be a big strech.

How you think Seattle would pay more I don't know, but I can tell you this. The gang willing to build the Seattle arena are putting $200M of their own cash in it. They need to buy an NBA team to start building the arena.

Now you are telling me they would pay $200M for arena, $100-200M for an NBA team and $300-400M for an NHL team.

That's at least $600M. They should have bought the Habs and Centre Bell, they would be ****ing rich right now.

 

[Whileee]

Whatever the COG decides to do next, I hope they don't have a bunch of dopey council members willing to abide someone like Jamison refusing to name his investors. That seemed like a pretty big red flag from the start.

I could see the new COG council offering up $10 million or so in AMF annually for the next 20 years, giving the NHL a firm deadline for a sale, and then moving on.

But time will soon tighten up for an NHL "plan B", so things better develop quickly.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Genuine question: if the deal couldn't be closed with $308M from Glendale to sweeten the pot, how can it be closed with $0?

It probably can't, which is why most of us are already talking about the Coyotes prematurely in the past tense.

Sorry if this has been posted before, but an interesting tweet:

bruce dowbiggin



This is from Bruce Dowbiggin of The Globe & Mail.

Here's a link to his tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/dowbboy/status/297036676608434176?p=v

Calgary oil $$????? Don't you just love cryptic messages?

I'd trust the veracity of that tweet no further than I can throw it. And I don't feel like throwing my laptop or iPhone, thank you very much. If some billionaire was really interested in buying the Yotes and keeping them in Glendale, the NHL would've brought him in when they still had the public subsidy on the table.

 

[madhi19]

Whatever the COG decides to do next, I hope they don't have a bunch of dopey council members willing to abide someone like Jamison refusing to name his investors. That seemed like a pretty big red flag from the start.

I could see the new COG council offering up $10 million or so in AMF annually for the next 20 years, giving the NHL a firm deadline for a sale, and then moving on.

But time will soon tighten up for an NHL "plan B", so things better develop quickly.

I wish they grow some backbone and toss the NHL out the door now. Would serve them right for jerking Glendale off for four years. The sooner they start working on doing something else with that building the better it would be for the CoG.