Phoenix LXIII: I Have Become Comfortably Numb

[rt]

So, YOU'RE the one!

Yep, that's me and my card board cut out in your avatar.

 

[aqib]

... you mean like Mayor Frank Scarpitti of Markham or Rob Ford of Toronto?... or really any of them anywhere?

I specifically said "council" I would venture to guess that if you asked people here who could name every member of Glendale City Council to name the members of their own city council they couldn't name them.

 

[Killion]

I specifically said "council" I would venture to guess that if you asked people here who could name every member of Glendale City Council to name the members of their own city council they couldn't name them.

... oh, so very sorry aqib. Didnt realize you required that I stick to an absolute and very strict compliance to your posts word for word. I'll be sure to keep that in mind in the future. Particularly so as I watch Markhams "Council" slowly unwind & unravel in the coming weeks & months. Do my homework in order to make sure I make no mistakes in executing vivisection's on each and every one of them. An especially set sharp of knives saved for UberDweeb Graeme Roustan yes? Nothing like hauling Politico's, Dreamers & Schemers' along with the entire citizenry who elected them and the fan base who supports their efforts in any given city out into the Village Square, trussing them all up in Stocks and making a mockery of them.

 

[aqib]

... oh, so very sorry aqib. Didnt realize you required that I stick to an absolute and very strict compliance to your posts word for word. I'll be sure to keep that in mind in the future.

Ok good. Just don't let it happen again

 

[Whileee]

To me, as a Coyotes fan living in the valley, there have always been only two completely unacceptable outcomes. The first is contraction and the second was relocation to Winnipeg. Now, I've only got contraction to worry about. Seattle, Houston, Kansas City, Markham, Hamilton, or Quebec City are all options I can deal with and remain a die hard fan despite of.

So I guess you're glad that the unfortunate fans in Atlanta took the bullet for you then, RT. I suppose that you do realize that you seem to represent the mirror image of all of the "relocationists" who would like the Coyotes to be relocated to anywhere, as long as they don't stay in Phoenix. If the Coyotes do relocate one thing you will probably realize, that Quebec and Winnipeg fans realized long ago, is how important it is to be able to go to the games to maintain the same level of interest. Many in those cities tried to stay fans of the Coyotes and Rockies, but most interest faded away when they realized that the local fans couldn't care less about the history of the team, and the players quickly moved on from their previous locale.

It's worth fighting against relocation, however you can, regardless of the ultimate location of relocation. It's not much different than a city like Winnipeg or Quebec fighting for a team, regardless of from where it might come. That's how "die hard" fans are.

 

[Killion]

Just don't let it happen again

.... Okee dokee then.

That's how "die hard" fans are...

Ya, I thinks its that quoted bit there Whileee. You forgot the Die Hard; With a Vengeance part. Remember? The one with Samuel L. Jackson as Detective Zeus Carver. Lieutenant McLanes reluctant partner. Pretty sure thats how rt feels about it.

"Saywhat MOFO?!"....

 

[aqib]

If the Coyotes do relocate one thing you will probably realize, that Quebec and Winnipeg fans realized long ago, is how important it is to be able to go to the games to maintain the same level of interest. Many in those cities tried to stay fans of the Coyotes and Rockies, but most interest faded away when they realized that the local fans couldn't care less about the history of the team, and the players quickly moved on from their previous locale.

I disagree. I have been an Oilers fan despite never having been to Edmonton. For the last 9 years I lived in Cleveland where not only is there no NHL team there are very few people who even know anything about the NHL.

 

[Killion]

I disagree. I have been an Oilers fan despite never having been to Edmonton. For the last 9 years I lived in Cleveland where not only is there no NHL team there are very few people who even know anything about the NHL.

... ya, and thats a sorry situation right there as well. Cleveland got screwed over by the NHL back in the 70's with the Barons, twice earlier in the late 40's & 50's through the mechanizations of the Norris Familia, but thats a story for another thread. I dont know what the leagues problem is, but you hafta to be some kinda Moron to mess up hockey in Ohio.

 

[aqib]

... ya, and thats a sorry situation right there as well. Cleveland got screwed over by the NHL back in the 70's with the Barons, twice earlier in the late 40's & 50's through the mechanizations of the Norris Familia, but thats a story for another thread. I dont know what the leagues problem is, but you hafta to be some kinda Moron to mess up hockey in Ohio.

The Gunds are good people, give a lot to charity, and pillars of the community. However, they are horrible sports owners and basically wrote the lease on the arena downtown so that there couldn't be an NHL team in there that they didn't own. By the time they sold the Sharks they were also trying to sell the Cavs and Cleveland had been decimated economically.

There are some NHL fans there but for the most part its people like myself who grew up elsewhere and moved there with allegiance in hand. Although youth hockey is huge so maybe in 10 years or so as the city rebounds (there is about $3 billion in development downtown) so maybe.

Ok back to the topic

 

[MaskedSonja]

So I'm guessing maybe, possibly, in some reality somewhere, we could just by chance have some answers after Tuesday's vote?

Or, am I going out on a limb here?

 

[Killion]

Or, am I going out on a limb here?

... yepp. Still sitting on a branch Im afraid, but with more
to speculate about thereafter than there are clouds in the sky.

 

[aqib]

So I'm guessing maybe, possibly, in some reality somewhere, we could just by chance have some answers after Tuesday's vote?

Or, am I going out on a limb here?

If the sales tax gets repealed and/or either one of the 2 pro-Coyotes seats flips to an anti-Coyotes seat that should sway things against the deal.

I would still be shocked if the team is still in Glendale long term, there are too many hurdles because even if a pro-Coyotes council is elected and pushes forward with the deal I would be stunned if it survives the inevitable Goldwater challenge. The have already said that they could get someone to manage the arena for 6 million meaning the $15 million amounts to a $9 million subsidy. In Skeete's budget scenarios he said if the sales tax stays and they keep the team they need $6 million in cuts if they lose the team they don't need to cut anything even with a $6 million check to an arena manager, meaning the $9 million subsidy only generates $3 million in income. I am not even a lawyer and I can tell you right there, they can not possibly argue that the fee is not disproportionate to the value received.

 

[checkerdome]

I disagree. I have been an Oilers fan despite never having been to Edmonton. For the last 9 years I lived in Cleveland where not only is there no NHL team there are very few people who even know anything about the NHL.

I think you may be comparing apples and oranges.

The Avs used to be the Nords and the Yotes were once the Jets.

Fan bases in Québec and Wpg experienced first hand what it felt like to be on the inside as a fanbase, only to be relegated to the outside once their teams left.

The contrast is striking, and makes following what is now another city's team a hollow experience.

From what you've written, you don't appear to have ever lived in Edmonton and have rooted for the Oilers from elsewhere since day one.

Consequently, you haven't had to adjust to a relocation and to experience the emotional distance imposed on you as a one time home fan.

Your situation as a fan of a team in another city reminds me of when I was an Oakland Raider fan at about the time they moved to Los Angeles.
From where I stood, I couldn't even understand why the move was even an issue. As a non resident of California it was six of one and half a dozen of another.
I could watch them on TV just the same.

 

[aqib]

I think you may be comparing apples and oranges.

The Avs used to be the Nords and the Yotes were once the Jets.

Fan bases in Québec and Wpg experienced first hand what it felt like to be on the inside as a fanbase, only to be relegated to the outside once their teams left.

The contrast is striking, and makes following what is now another city's team a hollow experience.

From what you've written, you don't appear to have ever lived in Edmonton and have rooted for the Oilers from elsewhere since day one.

Consequently, you haven't had to adjust to a relocation and to experience the emotional distance imposed on you as a one time home fan.

Your situation as a fan of a team in another city reminds me of when I was an Oakland Raider fan at about the time they moved to Los Angeles.
From where I stood, I couldn't even understand why the move was even an issue. As a non resident of California it was six of one and half a dozen of another.
I could watch them on TV just the same.

Those are all fair points. I was just responding to the its hard to be a fan when you can't go live games comment. Lots of people either don't have teams in their local area or they simply can't get tickets to a game. Their are 6 million people in the GTA, but only 820,000 tickets to regular season Leafs games (assuming standing room gets them upto 20K) so that leaves a lot of fans who can't go to a game

 

[Major4Boarding]

Oopsie...

Audit: Glendale wrongly used $6M in trust money

An internal audit shows Glendale administrators improperly took about $6 million from a city trust fund over three years to cover expenses.

The audit obtained by The Arizona Republic ( http://*******/RxSKYY) shows the account dropped from about $8 million in July 2010 to less than $3 million in June largely because of the improper transfers. The trust fund is essentially a self-insurance policy to cover personal injury or property damage liabilities.

The audit found city staff used the money during tight budget years to pay other bills, including $3.2 million to the state retirement system, $2.65 million to the city workers compensation trust fund and $500,000 to pay for administrative expenses and salaries.

The drawdown of the insurance trust fund means the city may come up short of cash to cover liabilities.

The fund board apparently wasn't told, but the City Council was told of some payments.

Wait for it...

The audit said staff did not follow rules and regulations, or keep the Board of Trustees, which oversees the fund, informed about the transfers. However, the audit noted the council was told about one transfer before it happened and others afterward.

The board, which is chaired by Councilwoman Joyce Clark, was presented with the audit in early October.

Clark said the board should have been better informed, according to a transcript its Oct. 4 meeting.

Clark at one point said the audit was nitpicky. But at other points, she scolded staff for the lack of information sharing. "Shame on you," she said.

The councilwoman did not respond to The Republic's requests for further comment.

http://azdailysun.com/news/state-an...cle_4457140c-a71b-569e-99f8-be0a3b6a0d56.html

Special meeting tomorrow to discuss the issue.

By the way, the link above in the quote regarding the Audit being obtained is bunk so i'm posting a working link here http://www.azcentral.com/community/glendale/articles/20121101audit-glendale-misspent-6-million.html

 

[mzappa]

Not going too far OT - but you are right Killion, the rivalry is already there. Jets absolutely loathe the Coyotes and the emotion was in full-force at the game last year in Winnipeg.

I'm personally torn, would love to see QC acquire the Coyotes so the debacle is the desert finally ends; but also enjoy having an enemy target to cheer against! It would be a good rivalry, we'll see what re-alignment format finally happens.

So, not to open old wounds...but the thing is they never heal.

... I see youve been a member here since 2008, so Im assuming you did read these threads going back to fall 2008, through the BK etc? Some serious enmities born between the two fan bases', cities. If by some slim chance Phoenix does hang on & hang in there, prolly a healthy development in the long-run in terms of an on ice-rivalry. Cant speak directly for them, but guys like rt & many many more dreaming of games against Winnipeg that wind up like 7-2, 8-1, 11-3; making sure they miss playoffs or better yet, facing them in whatever round, full-on-in-your-face cremations.

Edit not; and as the poster notes, no need to open old wounds...

 

[blues10]

Halloween has come and gone. Many reported sightings of bigfoot throughout North America but none of GJ and the JSG.

GJ is certainly an international man of mystery. As I have said before. His bigfoot impersionation is impeccable, often talked about no actual evidence.

Is GJ going to make an appearance at the Joyce Clark victory party Tuesday night? stay tuned.

I am shocked that tri-star hasn't boarded up Westgate after an October of no NHL hockey. All that Canadian lumber must be held up at US customs.

 

[rt]

So I guess you're glad that the unfortunate fans in Atlanta took the bullet for you then, RT. I suppose that you do realize that you seem to represent the mirror image of all of the "relocationists" who would like the Coyotes to be relocated to anywhere, as long as they don't stay in Phoenix. If the Coyotes do relocate one thing you will probably realize, that Quebec and Winnipeg fans realized long ago, is how important it is to be able to go to the games to maintain the same level of interest. Many in those cities tried to stay fans of the Coyotes and Rockies, but most interest faded away when they realized that the local fans couldn't care less about the history of the team, and the players quickly moved on from their previous locale.

It's worth fighting against relocation, however you can, regardless of the ultimate location of relocation. It's not much different than a city like Winnipeg or Quebec fighting for a team, regardless of from where it might come. That's how "die hard" fans are.

"Glad" is the wrong word. I'd have been glad if Atlanta kept their team and Winnipeg gained one through expansion.

As for the rest of all of that...I've got no doubts about being able to remain a fan of the franchise should they relocate. Seattle would be easiest because Doan, Maloney, Tippett might actually go with. As long as I cwn watch the majority of games on my DVR, I'd remain a fan if they moved to QC, too. I dont even really care what language. KC would be a little tough because I have no faith at all in the market. Still, no doubt I'd stick.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

Oopsie...



Wait for it...



http://azdailysun.com/news/state-an...cle_4457140c-a71b-569e-99f8-be0a3b6a0d56.html

Special meeting tomorrow to discuss the issue.

By the way, the link above in the quote regarding the Audit being obtained is bunk so i'm posting a working link here http://www.azcentral.com/community/glendale/articles/20121101audit-glendale-misspent-6-million.html

Oh Joyce. I love it when somebody criticizes an audit report. So I wonder what's nitpicky about it, that it focused on only $6 million of misappropriations? Drop in the bucket for CoG...

 

[Whileee]

Oh Joyce. I love it when somebody criticizes an audit report. So I wonder what's nitpicky about it, that it focused on only $6 million of misappropriations? Drop in the bucket for CoG...

It sounds like their attorney Craig Tindall is pretty ticked off at COG staff. It must be really out of bounds.

I guess that when you've committed an unplanned $50 million to the NHL and drawn down on all your funds, you start looking under the mattress for cash.

Not surprisingly, Joyce Clark refused to comment this close to election day. Maybe she thought that taking out that money was justified because the other money they spent was saving the Coyotes and thereby securing the long-term future of Westgate.

 

[Evil Doctor]

I can't believe it's the election tomorrow. I half expected that we would receive an announcement about an agreement in principle over the reworked lease would occur before the election. I get the feeling that come Wednesday morning, the Coyotes time in Arizona will be coming to an unofficial end...

 

[cbcwpg]

Other areas of concern raised in the audit included the lack of an annual external audit and the trustees’ failure to submit a timely report to the council.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...endale-misspent-6-million.html?nclick_check=1

The CoG caught misusing funds...and not being forthcoming with information.... Say it ain't so...

The CoG obviously operates under the " It's easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask permission " mode of doing business.

 

[MaskedSonja]

Go to the IRS and tell them when they audit they're being nitpicky-I dare you


I realize the IRS isn't involved in this case, but for this to come out just before the election, it could sway some of those undecideds at the last minute. I also have no doubt interested parties like GWI have taken note of this little tidbit for future reference.

 

[Puckschmuck*]

To me, as a Coyotes fan living in the valley, there have always been only two completely unacceptable outcomes. The first is contraction and the second was relocation to Winnipeg.

Don't worry, we aren't terribly fond of you either, even though you owe your franchises existance to us

 

[GuelphStormer]

I can't believe it's the election tomorrow. I half expected that we would receive an announcement about an agreement in principle over the reworked lease would occur before the election. I get the feeling that come Wednesday morning, the Coyotes time in Arizona will be coming to an unofficial end...

really, eh. im assuming there will be a recount of the tax referendum, then an appeal, then a judicial inquiry, then a dramatic last-minute supreme court challenge by Logan (who will have graduated law school by then) ... then ...