Phoenix CXXXII: The Upside Down Franchise

[The Feckless Puck]

Just my opinion but approval of that arena would seem to put another nail in the coffin of a new facility for the Coyotes.

Seems clear that ASU is no longer involved with the team with regards to building a new facility, and I say good for them.

 

[JimAnchower]

Article on upcoming ASU rink announcement...

Arizona State ‘getting all the details finalized’ to announce new on-campus rink

 

[Killion]

Seems clear that ASU is no longer involved with the team with regards to building a new facility, and I say good for them.

Yeah, I do believe thats dead Jim.... Though I suppose they could partner on the 5000 seater with funding, nice big donation to ASU to help pay for it; home for the hockey teams, high performance.... practice facility for the Coyotes as well.... like, thats gonna happen huh?

 

[Llama19]

Article on upcoming ASU rink announcement...

Arizona State ‘getting all the details finalized’ to announce new on-campus rink

Actual working link to the article: www.uscho.com/2018/01/16/arizona-state-getting-details-finalized-announce-new-campus-rink/

 

[Ciao]

Yeah, I do believe thats dead Jim.... Though I suppose they could partner on the 5000 seater with funding, nice big donation to ASU to help pay for it; home for the hockey teams, high performance.... practice facility for the Coyotes as well.... like, thats gonna happen huh?

You always did have a great sense of humour, K!

Seriously, would you think ASU might be interested in paying the Coyotes a modest fee -- for parking, management, what have you -- of a few million per if the 'Yotes would be good enough to use the new digs as their practice rink?

This is the only way I could imagine the NHL and Borrow-Way jumping in on this scheme. Otherwise, the University would just be, like, using them!

 

[JimAnchower]

You always did have a great sense of humour, K!

Seriously, would you think ASU might be interested in paying the Coyotes a modest fee -- for parking, management, what have you -- of a few million per if the 'Yotes would be good enough to use the new digs as their practice rink?

This is the only way I could imagine the NHL and Borrow-Way jumping in on this scheme. Otherwise, the University would just be, like, using them!

If someone is a really optimistic Coyotes fan and they thought they could still partner with ASU for a new arena, you could still point to the fact that ASU hasn't figured out where the future of the men's basketball team lies and wish there is a possibility. I don't see that happening, though. My guess is they renovate Wells Fargo in a few years. Northwestern's Welsh-Ryan Arena is currently being renovated for $110M and a little smaller than Wells Fargo and will displace the Wildcats for one year. ASU could go to TSRA for a year while the renovation occurs.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Just my opinion but approval of that arena would seem to put another nail in the coffin of a new facility for the Coyotes.

Not really. That nail has been nailed for months. This isn't a surprise, and was always ASU's plan to have an "Olympic" facility. Those of us who would have benefited by the new arena being at ASU, were more "really? wow!" when bigmouth prematurely spilled the beans about an NHL arena there.

Not quite so difficult to get over losing something you never had.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I don't see that happening, though. My guess is they renovate Wells Fargo in a few years. ... ASU could go to TSRA for a year while the renovation occurs.

I was just in there in Wells Fargo for the first time in a decade last week, and (a) it's definitely due for a major renovation, (b) it's too small for hockey - but if they did cram a hockey rink in there for the DI hockey team, it would then be too small for their basketball team, or at least where they want their basketball team to be.

(Fun fact, of the major sports teams in greater Phoenix - unless you count Grand Canyon U., which I don't...yet... Bobby Hurley of ASU is the longest tenured, in his 3rd year)

 

[Mightygoose]

Looks like ASU does not need Barroway's nor Patterson's help...

They sure don't need them. It was always the other way around.

It's coming close to a year since ASU pulled out and they have now moved on tthough I'm sure it was in the works shortly after they parted ways.

ASU on to plan B (maybe it really was A). Coyotes....still at the very begining?

 

[WingsFan95]

So just jumping in here the numbers seem to say unless there's a great arena offer like in Florida or new owner with deep pockets like Carolina this team is running out of lives correct?

Team valuations put them last but they still jumped 80 million so is that just league revenue sharing? I would assume so.

That said it's 300m price tag way below expansion fee so.........why do I feel Houston or Seattle to keep Conference?

 

[Mike Louis]

So just jumping in here the numbers seem to say unless there's a great arena offer like in Florida or new owner with deep pockets like Carolina this team is running out of lives correct?

Team valuations put them last but they still jumped 80 million so is that just league revenue sharing? I would assume so.

That said it's 300m price tag way below expansion fee so.........why do I feel Houston or Seattle to keep Conference?

My theory is that when Barroway is forced to sell, the NHL will arrange things so that Houston will be the only choice if the league approves of a out of town sale. You can bet your last dollar that Bettman is going to get his $650 Million pound of flesh from Seattle before the team valuation bubble bursts. Quebec City is being reserved for a relocation of any failing ETZ team and Hamilton is being reserved for the inevitable Bell / Rogers divorce.

 

[Llama19]

They sure don't need them. It was always the other way around.

It's coming close to a year since ASU pulled out and they have now moved on tthough I'm sure it was in the works shortly after they parted ways.

ASU on to plan B (maybe it really was A). Coyotes....still at the very begining?

With last year's failure by Barroway/LeBlanc...and this year's attacks (i.e., lawsuit) by Arizona's Attorney General Brnovich against ASU...there will never be another attempt by Barroway in partnering with ASU...

And...the politics are even worse for this year for another location agnostic bill to be introduced...

 

[Killion]

My theory is that when Barrowway is forced to sale, the NHL will arrange things so that Houston will be the only choice if the league approves of a out of town sale. You can bet your last dollar that Bettman is going to get his $650 Million pound of flesh from Seattle before the team valuation bubble bursts. Quebec City is being reserved for a relocation of any failing ETZ team and Hamilton is being reserved for the inevitable Bell / Rogers divorce.

Solid Detective work, speculation there Officer Mike. Pretty much what Ive been thinking for some time though Quebec, still not certain what the holdup/problem... could have more to do with Peladeau himself than any alignment difficulties or that their a "placeholder" for possibly an Ottawa or even a Calgary. As for Hamilton-Toronto2, ya, inevitable, Bell the ones likely to be leaving, very possibly setting up shop with a 2nd franchise. Marriage made in Hell. Just a matter of time.

 

[TheLegend]

Solid Detective work, speculation there Officer Mike. Pretty much what Ive been thinking for some time though Quebec, still not certain what the holdup/problem... could have more to do with Peladeau himself than any alignment difficulties or that their a "placeholder" for possibly an Ottawa or even a Calgary. As for Hamilton-Toronto2, ya, inevitable, Bell the ones likely to be leaving, very possibly setting up shop with a 2nd franchise. Marriage made in Hell. Just a matter of time.

Is it time for me to open my tin foil hat stand yet???

 

[viper0220]

My theory is that when Barroway is forced to sell, the NHL will arrange things so that Houston will be the only choice if the league approves of a out of town sale. You can bet your last dollar that Bettman is going to get his $650 Million pound of flesh from Seattle before the team valuation bubble bursts. Quebec City is being reserved for a relocation of any failing ETZ team and Hamilton is being reserved for the inevitable Bell / Rogers divorce.

The bolded part

Can you please expand on the "Bell/Rogers divorce", I have no idea what is going on.

 

[Mike Louis]

Can you please expand on the "Bell/Rogers divorce", I have no idea what is going on.

Bell and Rogers are two competing media companies that partnered up to own most of MLSE which owns the Toronto Maple Leafs, Raptors, and Marlies. To use an analogy, the Bell and Rogers partnership is to sports what a Coke and Pepsi partnership would be to soft drinks. Anyone with common sense knows such a arrangement won’t last long before there’s a power struggle for control. Many posters like myself know that sooner or later either Bell or Rogers will be forced out and that the NHL could use such a divorce scenario as political cover to finally bring Hamilton into the fold with minimum back room complications.

 

[Llama19]

Well...the Arizona State Legislature is slamming the door on ASU regarding lease-back financing for commercial use (e.g., a new arena for the Coyotes) of its property...

"NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, BEGINNING ON JULY 1, 2018, THE BOARD OR A CORPORATION FORMED BY A UNIVERSITY under the JURISDICTION of the board MAY NOT ENTER INTO A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT OR EXECUTE A TRANSACTION for which THE DEED TO A PROPERTY IMPROVEMENT IS TRANSFERRED TO THE BOARD OR that university AND SUBSEQUENTLY LEASED BACK TO A PRIVATE LESSOR FOR COMMERCIAL USE unless THE PROPERTY IMPROVEMENT IS USED PRIMARILY FOR AN ACADEMIC PURPOSE, for STUDENT HOUSING OR AS AUTHORIZED IN SECTION 15-1636. THIS subSECTION does not PROHIBIT THE BOARD FROM ACTING AS A GROUND LESSOR OR AS A COMMERCIAL LANDLORD WITHOUT A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IN A LEASE FOR A USE ANCILLARY TO A GOVERNMENT PROPERTY IMPROVEMENT USED FOR A UNIVERSITY PURPOSE."

Source: legiscan.com/AZ/text/HB2280/2018

 

[viper0220]

Bell and Rogers are two competing media companies that partnered up to own most of MLSE which owns the Toronto Maple Leafs, Raptors, and Marlies. To use an analogy, the Bell and Rogers partnership is to sports what a Coke and Pepsi partnership would be to soft drinks. Anyone with common sense knows such a arrangement won’t last long before there’s a power struggle for control. Many posters like myself know that sooner or later either Bell or Rogers will be forced out and that the NHL could use such a divorce scenario as political cover to finally bring Hamilton into the fold with minimum back room complications.

Thank you for the explanation Mike, hope that this happens.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

folks are forgetting no western conference team is being shifted to a Hamilton or a QC, Bell nor Rogers included..... because you'll still have an inbalance, once Seattle goes live

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Many posters like myself know that sooner or later either Bell or Rogers will be forced out and that the NHL could use such a divorce scenario as political cover to finally bring Hamilton into the fold with minimum back room complications.

This tangent is going a bit off topic but even if there is a Bell/Rogers split, I don't think the NHL touches Hamilton with a 10-foot pole for at least a decade.

 

[JimAnchower]

More details on ASU hockey rink. As part of the announcement renovations of Wells Fargo Arena may be included.

the facility is expected to seat approximately 5,000, at a cost of nearly $80 million.

The arena is part of a much larger athletic facilities package, which is why it still waits final approval and has not been announced. Included is renovations to the school's basketball facility, Wells Fargo Arena. The hockey arena would be located next to the WFA.

Arizona State Nearing Deal for On-Campus Arena

 

[Mike Louis]

This tangent is going a bit off topic but even if there is a Bell/Rogers split, I don't think the NHL touches Hamilton with a 10-foot pole for at least a decade.

Ideally Barroway should partner with Sarver in order to get a new stadium built in downtown Phoenix. However Barroway doesn’t have the funds and Sarver has the leverage and time to simply wait until the Coyotes have to relocate before making his play for a new building. The NHL has been waiting for the longest time to get Seattle and Houston into the fold. The major roadblocks however have been were either the stadium is outdated (Seattle) or the stadium’s master lease and revenue streams were controlled by parties hostile to the league (Houston). With Seattle now making moves to build a new stadium and Houston having their stadium controlled by a more NHL friendly ownership, the NHL is now opening the expansion process to Seattle and making behind the scenes preparations to have Barroway flip the Coyotes to Houston.

Quebec City is to the NHL what Washington, DC was to MLB and Los Angeles was to the NFL, an available market used as leverage by teams to either improve their current stadium deal or to get new stadiums built. Eventually though a Eastern Time Zone team will need to relocate and that’s when Quebec City gets the green light.

Hamilton is a bit more complicated due to the presence of both the Maple Leafs and Sabres nearby. As I stated previously Hamilton will get the green light once Bell and Rogers part ways as whoever doesn’t retain the ownership of MLSE will get the Hamilton expansion team as part of the divorce settlement. The NHL will have plenty of time to prepare for such a scenario as it’ll take time for strife to develop between Bell and Rogers.

As for how Quebec City and Hamilton figure into any Seattle expansion or Coyotes relocation plans, the keywords are leverage and appearances. If the NHL makes its plans to expand only into Seattle and relocate only into Houston too obvious to those not in the know, the league won’t get its expansion / relocation fee and also be at risk of exposing themselves to an antitrust lawsuit. Bettman has been commissioner long enough to know how this sort of game is played.

 

[Killion]

This tangent is going a bit off topic but even if there is a Bell/Rogers split, I don't think the NHL touches Hamilton with a 10-foot pole for at least a decade.

Yes... going off-road, off the map a bit here.... but I agree. If it happens it will likely only happen after Jeremy Jacobs and Gary Bettman have departed the scene, so lets say somewhere between 5-10yrs hence... about the number of years I reckon Bell & Rogers have left between them in trying to share ownership of the Leafs & MLSE.....

.... now, back to our regularly scheduled programming: Phoenix CXXXII; The Upside Down Franchise

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

none of the above post, matters..... simply put it is widely known the Coyotes want absolutely nothing, repeat, nothing to do with TSRA, AFTER being forced there upon arrival from Winnipeg.... and Sarver wants nothing to do with the Coyotes, Mike, SO HARPING about it has accomplished nothing since Glendale/GRA, THAT'S WHAT Arizona needs to focus on, and how many arena proposals have worked /failed.... simply put, no new arena is likely to be rejected (see Nassau/Suffolk County and the Islanders and how that went down....

 

[Llama19]

none of the above post, matters..... simply put it is widely known the Coyotes want absolutely nothing, repeat, nothing to do with TSRA, AFTER being forced there upon arrival from Winnipeg.... and Sarver wants nothing to do with the Coyotes, Mike, SO HARPING about it has accomplished nothing since Glendale/GRA, THAT'S WHAT Arizona needs to focus on, and how many arena proposals have worked /failed.... simply put, no new arena is likely to be rejected (see Nassau/Suffolk County and the Islanders and how that went down....

Well...the last attempt that Barroway/LeBlanc made for a new arena...was rejected...and soundly...