And you believe everything the media says? Oh great, he talked to Shane after he was dumped unceremoniously by his teenage GM, how big of him!
Phoenix CXXXII: The Upside Down Franchise
- Thread starter Llama19
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And you believe everything the media says? Oh great, he talked to Shane after he was dumped unceremoniously by his teenage GM, how big of him!
Tom ServoMST3K
In search of a Steinbach Hero
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
Since he stated himself in open media events.... yes. He also publicly apologized on two separate on how he handled the situation. That doesn't sound like the person you continue to keep shoveling crap about.
So give a rest Mesa.... this shtick of screaming verbiage for the sake of it is old and worn out.
And you *dismiss* everything the media says? (at least the outlets you've chosen not to believe) Well, smh, there's no help for that. Weatherman says it might rain at the weekend. Do you believe him? He could be wrong ya know; it is after all a desert.
Plus Chayka's over 20. By quite a lot. I've met him; he's a lot more mature than many 60+ I know. Your age bias shows there.
Stumbledore
Registered User
Wearing my Petty Hat tonight so.... is anyone else worried about the fact that the owner of the Coyotes keeps referring to the rink in which they play as a STADIUM?
- Oct 26, 2006
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Sarver is a complete non-starter. But it'd make a bit of twisted sense if the Coyotes ever did partner with him, because he's one of the worst owners in pro sports, no matter how flush with cash he might be.
Right now, to be honest, I'm very very very jealous of the Hurricanes.
Killion
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2010
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.... indeed, but at the same time it's very much representative of just how quickly things can change in the face of what appeared almost certain doom & for quite some time. There are other examples.... the Bolts, Panthers & Stars in recent history; Nashville & Pittsburgh a decade + ago. So as crazy as it may seem.............
Nah.
The Chicago Blackhawks played in the Chicago Stadium (an arena) from 1929-94.
I don't know if you're Canadian, but if you are we might just think of it as one of those things that make Americans a bit different.
If you are an American, maybe we can just chalk it up as one of the quirks of American English that some people call arenas stadia.
Who knew?
Thanks for the succinct update, Llama. It saved me a bunch of time sifting through zombie threads, and I don't have a high level of interest since the franchise and arena discussions went into zombie mode. It would be fascinating to know who's losing all the money now, and why.
I think you might have missed your December date, Mesa, only because it's a bit of a fool's game to prognosticate anything in this nutty situation.
We really know very little, except that despite the odds the Coyotes are still in Glendale.
Every day they stay without big government subsidies is a success for the good people of Glendale, which also leaves open the possibility of another success the next day.
We just don't know what will happen tomorrow.
I wouldn't exclude almost any possible outcome here.
I'm hoping that the Coyotes will stay and put the GRA to its' highest and best use, but I sure as heck wouldn't bet on that!
I think someone in Wasshington will finish his investigation, Whilee, long before that information ever comes out -- and there's a good chance we'll never know!
Llama19
Registered User
I wonder what Barroway is dreaming of...
OK, there's a lot going on there for dream interpretation. So here goes, the first of these serious, the others for fun:
I always believed the unusual, sharp angular look of the architectural renderings of the proposed East Valley arena was done that way for public relations - - in the context of a proposal to request public funding to replace a fully modern, up-to-date arena in Glendale, it helps the narrative if the public perceives it's going to get something that looks completely different than the typical oval-shaped arena, something modernistic-looking that suggests it will be more up-to-date, even if it won't really be. Maybe especially because it won't be. Thus, the radically different look, suggesting the public would actually get something different.
Now for my more "Freudian" analysis
:Poor Barroway in that dream is seeing a lot of fading stars - Freud would definitely say that represents his inner angst over the constant disappearance of his star players from the team due to years of cost constraints, free agents fleeing the market, etc. Or maybe repressed guilt over dumping his franchise star, Doan! It's eating him up losing all that talent, but since Barroway won't won't ever talk to the press to get his feelings out, the stress about it has got to come out somewhere, so it's manifesting itself in this nightmare dream!
The other symbol here is a little harder to pin down, but Freud would say the general meaning is clear: That big huge quarter moon also represents another suppressed thought, a temptation, actually, but a thought Barroway can't express out loud while he's asking Arizonans for money for a new arena. It symbolizes another major league hockey team, one in the old Western Canada Hockey League . . . that's right, the Saskatoon Crescents! Barroway can't express this in his waking hours, but he's secretly pining to resurrect the IA Saskatoon plan!! But what we don't know is if Barroway is dreaming fondly of the old IA Saskatoon 5-game scheme . . . or is he dreaming of 41?!! Further deep analysis by psychological experts is needed to flush this out - that's why those professionals get the big bucks!
Sadly, this psychological stuff is well beyond the competence of this Business of Hockey board to pin down, but we are qualified to opine on one thing . . . does Barroway have the bucks to afford such expensive analysis?
Llama19
Registered User
OK, there's a lot going on there for dream interpretation. So here goes, the first of these serious, the others for fun:
I always believed the unusual, sharp angular look of the architectural renderings of the proposed East Valley arena was done that way for public relations - - in the context of a proposal to request public funding to replace a fully modern, up-to-date arena in Glendale, it helps the narrative if the public perceives it's going to get something that looks completely different than the typical oval-shaped arena, something modernistic-looking that suggests it will be more up-to-date, even if it won't really be. Maybe especially because it won't be. Thus, the radically different look, suggesting the public would actually get something different.
Now for my more "Freudian" analysis
Poor Barroway in that dream is seeing a lot of fading stars - Freud would definitely say that represents his inner angst over the constant disappearance of his star players from the team due to years of cost constraints, free agents fleeing the market, etc. Or maybe repressed guilt over dumping his franchise star, Doan! It's eating him up losing all that talent, but since Barroway won't won't ever talk to the press to get his feelings out, the stress about it has got to come out somewhere, so it's manifesting itself in this nightmare dream!
The other symbol here is a little harder to pin down, but Freud would say the general meaning is clear: That big huge quarter moon also represents another suppressed thought, a temptation, actually, but a thought Barroway can't express out loud while he's asking Arizonans for money for a new arena. It symbolizes another major league hockey team, one in the old Western Canada Hockey League . . . that's right, the Saskatoon Crescents! Barroway can't express this in his waking hours, but he's secretly pining to resurrect the IA Saskatoon plan!! But what we don't know is if Barroway is dreaming fondly of the old IA Saskatoon 5-game scheme . . . or is he dreaming of 41?!! Further deep analysis by psychological experts is needed to flush this out - that's why those professionals get the big bucks!
Sadly, this psychological stuff is well beyond the competence of this Business of Hockey board to pin down, but we are qualified to opine on one thing . . . does Barroway have the bucks to afford such expensive analysis?
This is likely the only psychological advice Barroway could afford...
Tom ServoMST3K
In search of a Steinbach Hero
I'm interested on what the current opinion of Barroway is on HF.
QUESTIONS:
Is he a Bettman Stooge/Temporary Caretaker?
Is he Looking for a flip or an actual Honest owner?
How much in subsidies does he need to make an honest go of it?
What's his relationship to:
-CoG
-Phoenix
-Arizona Legislature
-University of Arizona
Like always, a lot more questions than answers.
MY OPINIONS:
I'm inclined to give him a bit more benefit of the doubt than past owners, but I still think he's in over his head, trying to salvage relationships that have long since soured.
We'll never know how much money he needs per year until/if a deal is announced.
QUESTIONS:
Is he a Bettman Stooge/Temporary Caretaker?
Is he Looking for a flip or an actual Honest owner?
How much in subsidies does he need to make an honest go of it?
What's his relationship to:
-CoG
-Phoenix
-Arizona Legislature
-University of Arizona
Like always, a lot more questions than answers.
MY OPINIONS:
I'm inclined to give him a bit more benefit of the doubt than past owners, but I still think he's in over his head, trying to salvage relationships that have long since soured.
We'll never know how much money he needs per year until/if a deal is announced.
Llama19
Registered User
I think Barroway is just another placeholder owner...
However, with him bringing in Patterson to supposedly negotiate for a new arena...I do not think that combined...that they can overcome the soured relationships among the CoG, City of Phoenix, the State Legislature, et al...
Barroway is a mixed bag, like all individuals. He would like the prestige of 'big time sports ownership.' But, he really lacks the $$ to get in the game. This is his only shot, and he is enjoying the ride.
Contrary to Mesa, I think that NHL has his back: He has been guaranteed that he won't lose money on this deal, but he's not really a stooge. I think the guarantee is something like this: "If there is no arena coming, then we will help you sell for relocation, and you will get 500M out of it."
Since he lacks $$, he is not an honest owner. But, he's not really in it only for a flip, either. A new arena, under the right terms, would be a happy sight, and he might well stay if that's the case.
Subsidy: Well, there are at least 20M/yr in losses (Some say more. Some 'sources' of posters here say closer to 50M.) Since he is woefully ill-financed, he can't absorb losses and wait for franchise values to rise to make up for it, so he needs about that much in a subsidy.
Relationships:
I am convinced there is no relationship which could lead to the deal he needs in any of those places. Not that, for example, COG despises him. COG is happy to have hockey at GRA. But, there is no way COG will ever again enter a sole source subsidy arrangement with an NHL owner. Phoenix? It doesn't matter, because TSRA isn't going to be remodeled to include the Yotes, a new arena for both teams requires a referendum which would fail, and in either case, there is not enough subsidy for Barroway to make it work. Legislature? No bills that we are aware of this year. That says all we need to know. ASU? That horse has become maverick and is galloping away.
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Summer Rose
Red Like Roses
Completely random nitpick here which is borderline off topic... Higley High School is in the waaaaay southeast part of the valley, probably at least 40 miles from GRA. No way they'd use it to host their graduation ceremony. :p
I graduated from Mesquite High School, also in Gilbert, but on the western edge of it. They sent our graduation ceremony to Wells Fargo Arena (ASU's basketball arena).
cbcwpg
Registered User
Not worried, just annoyed as I mentioned in #45. You want hockey people to take you seriously, then as a start use the right terminology. And don't even get me started on the whole "jersey" vs "sweater" issue.
And just my 2 cents on Barroway as an owner. On a scale of 1-10 I put him at a 6. I believe he wants to own the team in Arizona. I believe he wants the team to be financially successful in Arizona. I believe ( although you wouldn't know it by the standings this season ) he wants to ice the best team he can and ultimately bring the Stanley Cup to Arizona. I believe his heart is in the right place. For me the thing that drops him down the ownership scale is the fact that he wants someone else to finance a home for him to play in and potentially subsidize the team as well. Step up to the plate with the money to do this on your own and I would say he would be a great owner.
JimAnchower
Registered User
- Dec 8, 2012
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I would add to that with something about private developers. With the Suns and Phoenix at lest talking about something, private developers are not going to be interested in a new arena. They are going to see how it plays out before anything else. They aren't going to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in a new arena only to find out in 12-24 months, or whatever the timeline is, that the Suns and the city of Phoenix settle their differences and reach an agreement on a remodeled, or even new, arena.
Killion
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2010
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Higley?..... picked that one of the dozens cuz I like the name.... "Higley High"..... amuses me.
The Coyotes Saga is like poetry, it rhymes. Every single season echoes the past and the future.
[Insert other Star Wars Episode 1 references]
Honestly, I feel like there will have been dozens of new Star Wars movie by the time this story ends. It's ridiculous.
The NHL isn't willing to let the team move, and nobody in Arizona is willing to build a new arena. AND Glendale is no longer paying the team deficits. But somehow to compensate, the NHL is willing to extend an endless line of Credit without a due date to pay the gigantic team deficits every year.
How much longer can this last? Well, forever apparently, unless the NHL one day asks for it's millions back or stops the flow of "loaned" money that doesn't need to be repaid. (It wont)
- Oct 26, 2006
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You are waaaaaaaaaaay more generous than I am.
I'd rate him about a 4. I think he and his kid wanted to own a hockey team as a passion project together. And Barroway has, since he's been sole owner, done a couple of extremely charitable things for fans that don't get much press (nor, really, should they) - things that he absolutely did not have to do, and things that none of the previous owners have bothered to do.
But the six-point deduction comes from either having no money at all to spend on the team, or being so parsimonious that the team is strangulated into irrelevance. It comes from still being uncertain about what his real endgame is, because if you strip away all of the lip service to Arizona hockey and the market and the Dek rinks that are actually an NHL league initiative, you are left with a guy whose personal wealth is not even a drop in the bucket compared to the financial stresses this franchise is enduring, and whose debt load makes you wonder why he's not already in an alley somewhere with a fifth of Jack, rummaging through Dumpsters.
To put it more succinctly - this guy came from the East Coast, plopped down in the middle of the worst soap opera in pro sports, leveraged himself to Spain, and is sitting around in a holding pattern of questionable check-writing and hope for a whopping public subsidy. Why exactly is that supposed to inspire faith in me, a Coyotes fan, in his longevity or long-term wherewithal?
Not disagreeing with you. However, playing devils advocate, what happens to the franchise if Seattle is only interested in expansion, QC disrupts the conference balance. Fertitta is not interested in paying the leagues asking price, in fact he is not interested in bringing in an NHL franchise at any price. What does GB do, continue to pay AB`s bills? I submit that he has little love lost for AB, and any financial damage GB inflicts upon AB will passed along as "the price of doing business, and he knew the risks." AB is his own worst enemy as reports begin to emerge that all is not well inside this organization. Most of the business decisions are being made without regard to possible unintended consequences. Rather, they are being made with the bottom line as the primary motivator. While that may work for awhile the long term health of this organization is imperiled.
Llama19
Registered User
...
... that would make a great thread title:Phoenix CXXXIII: The Parsimonious Syndrome
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