Killion
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- Feb 19, 2010
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Phoenix CXXX: Sock it to ME
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Tom ServoMST3K
In search of a Steinbach Hero
...Only in Manitoba.... parts of the Ukraine Tom.
This is OT, but it's burger week in Winnipeg, and someone made a Menno Burger, with Roll Kutchen and watermelon and farmer's sausage
To keep this post somewhat on topic, and drag the thread back to relevance, I'm thinking the next movement we'll see will be how the renewal of the lease is handled this year.
I think without the Barroway buyout, the franchise could have been portable last year, due to the way they treated the 2017 lease renewal.
Killion
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- Feb 19, 2010
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This is OT, but it's burger week in Winnipeg, and someone made a Menno Burger, with Roll Kutchen and watermelon and farmer's sausage
To keep this post somewhat on topic, and drag the thread back to relevance, I'm thinking the next movement we'll see will be how the renewal of the lease is handled this year.
I think without the Barroway buyout, the franchise could have been portable last year, due to the way they treated the 2017 lease renewal.
That... is one tasty looking little snack!
And yes, on-topic.... thus far playing it very close to the vest with comments like "were only just beginning the process" (Patterson when asked about a new facility, where, when etc) as though history is non-existent. Their previous efforts under Barroway & LeBlanc, ASU & the Worsley Bill just figments of everyones imagination, never happened. So "weve only just begun" a pretty lame-ass line to be throwing out. As insipid as the tune of the same name by the Carpenters. These guys have history, they know what the score is with the Legislature, ASU & elsewhere. Get real.
So where do they go from here, what can they possibly do to coerce the State and a municipality in the East Valley or Phoenix itself to dig & dig deep? Talk about Mission Impossible. Clearly their not made of money so upping their ante' beyond the even $170M Leblanc was talking about (which wasnt "real up-front money", deal as crooked as a West Virginian dirt road, these guys about as reliable as a John Denver ultra-light & everyone knows it) doesnt seem to be in the cards.
So I'm guessin here, my guess is just a whole bunch of vague non-answers until January and actually very little action behind the scenes. Thereafter?.... Claim their making progress, hanging in, signed the Lease Renewal for 18/19 & expect to get a deal done fiscal 2018 or 2019. I dont believe they get a deal done at all ever and I think they know it, that a plans in place, buying time waiting on the disposition of likely 2, possibly 3 out of state destinations/options to get sorted out. So basically. More of the same. Holding Pattern....Alternately, as mesa & others have suggested, whole things go nuclear early in the new year. That theory does have merit, legs. We'll see. I'd say its 70/30 Stay/Go. 30% they Go as I'm not seeing anywhere for them to go in so short a term.
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cbcwpg
Registered User
I don't know about that..... maybe it's just my stomach talking, but generally a hot dog that cost $1 tastes like a hotdog that's only worth a dollar. You get what you pay for. Is it a good thing to use cheap food to get people into a game and afterwords have them regretting those 5 hotdogs they ate?
JMO, but having spectacular food might actually draw people to a game over quasi-food for cheap.
(I renewed in April, btw. Thanks for your concern. You do realize this is how I see you, right?)
That... is one tasty looking little snack!
And yes, on-topic.... thus far playing it very close to the vest with comments like "were only just beginning the process" (Patterson when asked about a new facility, where, when etc) as though history is non-existent. Their previous efforts under Barroway & LeBlanc, ASU & the Worsley Bill just figments of everyones imagination, never happened. So "weve only just begun" a pretty lame-ass line to be throwing out. As insipid as the tune of the same name by the Carpenters. These guys have history, they know what the score is with the Legislature, ASU & elsewhere. Get real.
So where do they go from here, what can they possibly do to coerce the State and a municipality in the East Valley or Phoenix itself to dig & dig deep? Talk about Mission Impossible. Clearly their not made of money so upping their ante' beyond the even $170M Leblanc was talking about (which wasnt "real up-front money", deal as crooked as a West Virginian dirt road, these guys about as reliable as a John Denver ultra-light & everyone knows it) doesnt seem to be in the cards.
So I'm guessin here, my guess is just a whole bunch of vague non-answers until January and actually very little action behind the scenes. Thereafter?.... Claim their making progress, hanging in, signed the Lease Renewal for 18/19 & expect to get a deal done fiscal 2018 or 2019. I dont believe they get a deal done at all ever and I think they know it, that a plans in place, buying time waiting on the disposition of likely 2, possibly 3 out of state destinations/options to get sorted out. So basically. More of the same. Holding Pattern....Alternately, as mesa & others have suggested, whole things go nuclear early in the new year. That theory does have merit, legs. We'll see. I'd say its 70/30 Stay/Go. 30% they Go as I'm not seeing anywhere for them to go in so short a term.
Another possible scenario would be an AB BK or outright sale to another party willing to keep the team in the desert. An outright sale without the need for a BK on the sellers end seems far fetched, as who in their right mind would pay a dime more than the astronomical sum that has been levered up by AB? A BK, would clear the decks of financial leverage and potentially allow the league or another buyer to pay what this team is really worth, which is not a whole lot. Some may point to the Carolina sale and presume that because they got that amount the Coyotes must be worth something near there. Possibly, but only if they a re relocated to a new market. After all AB has said that it is impossible to be successful at GRA, I think it is the only thing he has ever said that makes any sense.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
That... is one tasty looking little snack!
And yes, on-topic.... thus far playing it very close to the vest with comments like "were only just beginning the process" (Patterson when asked about a new facility, where, when etc) as though history is non-existent. Their previous efforts under Barroway & LeBlanc, ASU & the Worsley Bill just figments of everyones imagination, never happened. So "weve only just begun" a pretty lame-ass line to be throwing out. As insipid as the tune of the same name by the Carpenters. These guys have history, they know what the score is with the Legislature, ASU & elsewhere. Get real.
So where do they go from here, what can they possibly do to coerce the State and a municipality in the East Valley or Phoenix itself to dig & dig deep? Talk about Mission Impossible. Clearly their not made of money so upping their ante' beyond the even $170M Leblanc was talking about (which wasnt "real up-front money", deal as crooked as a West Virginian dirt road, these guys about as reliable as a John Denver ultra-light & everyone knows it) doesnt seem to be in the cards.
So I'm guessin here, my guess is just a whole bunch of vague non-answers until January and actually very little action behind the scenes. Thereafter?.... Claim their making progress, hanging in, signed the Lease Renewal for 18/19 & expect to get a deal done fiscal 2018 or 2019. I dont believe they get a deal done at all ever and I think they know it, that a plans in place, buying time waiting on the disposition of likely 2, possibly 3 out of state destinations/options to get sorted out. So basically. More of the same. Holding Pattern....Alternately, as mesa & others have suggested, whole things go nuclear early in the new year. That theory does have merit, legs. We'll see. I'd say its 70/30 Stay/Go. 30% they Go as I'm not seeing anywhere for them to go in so short a term.
I guess I should have our NYE party hats made out of tin foil then. Seems to be the recurring theme lately.
Either way I wouldn't expect an auto lease extension or cancellation to happen with any fanfare.
Killion
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I guess I should have our NYE party hats made out of tin foil then. Seems to be the recurring theme lately.
Either way I wouldn't expect an auto lease extension or cancellation to happen with any fanfare.
I'd recommend aluminum TL. Tin, you'd need a crimping machine & hey, "lead". Possible lead poisoning...... and you dont think questions wont be asked should Barroway fail to re-sign on the dotted line on or before December 31st? There'd be a lot of questions and no real good answer to that one. I cant imagine theres any really serious or onerous early exit penalty should they leave in May, June or July of 2018, 19 or whenever but plenty of downside in not signing it.... first, the questions, "why not, whats going on"? and with no good answer... talk about the bottom falling out in attendance from January through April huh?... "Auto Lease Extension" as you frame it, and I like that turn of words, phrasing... like its a 56 Buick Roadmaster, standard equipment, yer ALE.... yes, I think that the most likely scenario & yes agreed, no party thrown, no dollar hot dogs, sodee pop & beer.
Killion
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- Feb 19, 2010
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Not in my wildest dreams could I imagine an Andrew Barroway BK mesa. No chance. No way does the NHL not have itself well out in front of any such eventuality of that kind after the Moyes fiasco. It is most certainly a highly entertaining scenario to imagine but no, no, sorry. Thats one fantasy that'll never see the light of day, transpire. Granted Barroway is a Lawyer and we know litigious by nature... Wang with Computer Associates winning himself a nice chunk of change & then again with Wang & the Islanders, threatening a lawsuit for breach, the NHL stepping in & paving his way to Arizona... and with a guy like that sure, he could well go rogue & start dropping paper all over the place but in this case, this situation I just dont see that happening. If even close & if he for example defaults on his loan payments to the private investment bank in NY (name escapes me, GGE? CGE? Whatever...) & they start to move in on him, I'm sure the NHL would be stepping in & paying that bill, likely co-signed on the loan itself so thats just not happening. They have failsafes installed, options at their disposal, the money to fix just about anything or anyone.
That happened with Winnipeg the last two seasons.... there were Winnipeg fans who believed Jets could make the playoffs if they got their poo in order and the teams above them lost their remaining games.
Yes, that's how fans think; a team with a 49% win record will all of a sudden win 70% of their remaining games.
Now this year will be something else. Playoff bound.
Glacial
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- Jan 8, 2013
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I wonder, does Barroway keep looking for the Lost Dutchman's Arena somewhere in the valley or does he send out feelers to the new owner of the Rockets about hosting the Coyotes in the arena there? Houston offers a larger market but it had no prior history of a NHL team, so there are a lot of unknowns (in contrast to returning a team to a city that had it, like NHL to Twin Cities, NFL to Cleveland, LA etc), but Phoenix isn't that much smaller (just 6 or 7 places down IIRC), the team has established presence there, although therein lies the rub along with the arena geography lament. What is he committed to? A quick flip? (assuming Bettman plays along because Houston) A path forward for franchise value increase or glory in Arizona? Going around in circles (the Coyotes status quo), waiting to sell the team to the next sucker who thinks everyone else must've been fools and they and they alone can get a new arena built in a better place?
Perhaps you are right, however, the present enterprise valuation of this franchise is likely lower than the outstanding debt. The league is NOT a friend of AB, they have been pushed around by him in the islanders case and certainly are well aware of his less than stellar reputation. This guy is not good for Az. and is a blight on the league. Recall, the stunt he pulled at the last few drafts bringing his son into the picture etc. i believe the league will allow this creep to flounder in his situation. By letting him sink, the league can subsequently pick up the team without the attached debt. Don`t forget, GB promised the BOG that they would not lose money on this ill advised venture. By co-signing or picking up the tab on the debt they will have effectively put the other owners in a losing situation. Sorry, but Andy is going to have a very disappointing fall from what little grace he has.
Many of the prognosticators are beginning to weigh in on the teams as they approach training camp. Most have the Coyotes finishing, once again, in the bottom of the league and missing the playoffs. Those loss totals that Tony referred to are going to look awfully ominous this year with tarped off upper sections and ticket prices that may rival those being sold in Tucson for the Roadrunner games.
Llama19
Registered User
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
Uh..... sorry to bust your narrative..... once again........
1) Nobody is predicting the Coyotes will make the Cup finals this year. Only a few posters on F40 think there's even an outside shot making the first round as a wild card, and it'll take a lot of things that fall into place for that. But they're happy for the most part about the changes so far and looking to see what happens next in filling a couple of gaping holes (that even John Chayka admits) in the lineup.
2) Andrew Barroway taking his son up on stage for the draft is nothing new. His daughter was there with he and Jake two years ago. Other teams have had kids even younger than Jake up on stage. Jake recently enrolled at the University of Michigan to work towards a degree in Sports Management. Andrew Barroway has said he's looking to keep this franchise in the family for years to come. Seems a logical move for Jake to spend the next few years spending some classroom time in learning how to run a pro sports franchise, and what better lab is there to have a real one to observe first hand???
3) Ticket prices??? Give us all a real break. YES.... the Coyotes run some deals where the price of the ticket is down near the level of a regular season Roadrunners ticket. But you know damn well that the Coyotes only sell a limited number of those of certain days. Just as you know damn well they aren't the only franchise in the NHL to offer bargains like that.
But for kicks and giggles let's look at both seating charts....
Roadrunners.....
http://www.tucsonroadrunners.com/tickets/stm/
Coyotes.... (note the Coyotes chart on this page includes promotional prices and where they apply. Plus the four sections that will be tarped off.)
https://www.nhl.com/coyotes/tickets/season
Now..... care to explain how Coyotes prices "may rival those being sold in Tucson for the Roadrunner games"???
While we're at it..... ever watched a game at Barclay's Center? They have a car sitting in the corner of the arena up against the glass. Why do that when they could put seats there and have some more prime seating in a facility that has a quarter of its seats already having restricted view of the ice.... not unlike what the Coyotes had when they played downtown. Easy.... Barclay's makes more money having that car there than they would putting in seats. The Coyotes plan to put advertising on those tarps which may (or may not) bring in more money to the franchise than they would putting butts in the seat under them. Isn't that the goal here?? To bring more money in??
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
This is hilarious.... the tweet you copy and pasted says the team made "Big upgrades and promising rookies could mean a surprise breakout if everything goes right. "
Yet you spin it at disappointing.
Wonder who's really disappointed here????
Llama19
Registered User
This is hilarious.... the tweet you copy and pasted says the team made "Big upgrades and promising rookies could mean a surprise breakout if everything goes right. "
Yet you spin it at disappointing.
Wonder who's really disappointed here????
To quote:
"The Coyotes will be strategic in their spending, [Owner Andrew] Barroway said, but he wouldn’t identify where their budget would rank compared to their peers. He acknowledged, though, that they’ll have to spend more as their young players come off their entry-level contracts.
"I think we have a legitimate shot to make the playoffs this year," he said. "I think we're going to be a competitive team.""
Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...commitment-keeping-coyotes-arizona/478144001/
So what exactly was your point there? (Mod)
- every team is strategic in their spending
- no owners identify where their budget would rank compared to their peers
- every team spends more as young players come off entry level contracts
- most teams think they have a legitimate shot to make the playoffs
- most teams think they will be competitive
- every team is strategic in their spending
- no owners identify where their budget would rank compared to their peers
- every team spends more as young players come off entry level contracts
- most teams think they have a legitimate shot to make the playoffs
- most teams think they will be competitive
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Llama19
Registered User
Why, yes...yes it is...
However, that is why there is this thread about the next year's chapter...
This is hilarious.... the tweet you copy and pasted says the team made "Big upgrades and promising rookies could mean a surprise breakout if everything goes right. "
Yet you spin it at disappointing.
Wonder who's really disappointed here????
In the actual tweet there is a projection of 85 points (about the same as the Avs), 6th in the Division, 23% chance of making the playoffs. Maybe that's disappointing to some...
Llama19
Registered User
In the actual tweet there is a projection of 85 points (about the same as the Avs), 6th in the Division, 23% chance of making the playoffs. Maybe that's disappointing to some...
Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook has them even lower at 74.5 points, third worst in the league...
Source: http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/i...als-all-31-teams-westgate-las-vegas-superbook
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
In 2011-2012 everyone had the Coyotes finishing dead last. How'd that year turn out???
(Hint.... it was called the Western Conference Finals.)
So much for prognostications eh??
Feel free to reach back to time that was league ownership, not this goofball Andy Barroway!
So, are you planning to lay some heavy bets on the Yotes to cash in big on the long odds?
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
I don't gamble. Even when I lived in Reno for 4 years.
EDIT: Actually that's not quite true. I did spend $2 a week on NFL parlay cards my first year in Reno. Quit after that because it just didn't appeal to me.
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