Phoenix CXXX: Sock it to ME

[Llama19]

Ahhhh........ but I was accounting for inflation costs there fella.

True.... the 8 million square foot figure was misleading in that it should have included the housing square footage and office square footage on top of the retail. But if you want to go fix the Wiki page for the place be my guest.

As someone who uses the teaching icon...you should know better than using Wiki as a quoted source...

 

[TheLegend]

As someone who uses the teaching icon...you should know better than using Wiki as a quoted source...

No worse than the Glendale Star or Five For Howling.

Besides.... what makes you think I didn't look farther than just Wiki?? Even while at work using just an iPhone???

 

[nobody important]

Someone is finally seeing the light.......





(cue the locomotive references in 3....... 2....... 1........ )

Happy to oblige with a Classic Metallica Moment. Live performance, of course. Videos should be banned for the lip syncing atrocities that they are.

 

[Llama19]

 

[Llama19]

New Gila River Arena management bolsters budget return

To quote:

"The black cloud over Gila River Arena is the Coyotes’ contract at the arena, which expires at the end of the upcoming season. Coyotes ownership has expressed a desire to leave Glendale for other parts of the Valley in recent years but have yet to secure another place to play after their contract in Glendale expires.

City Manager Kevin Phelps said that AEG, which is handling negotiations with the Coyotes, has told IceArizona, the Coyotes’ ownership, that it would be willing to extend the current agreement into a multi-year deal but provide IceArizona an opt out of that agreement, should it find a new place for the Coyotes to play. But IceArizona has yet to respond to that offer.

As for the short term, Councilwoman Joyce Clark hypothesized that it would be in the team’s best interest secure at least one more year in Glendale because they do not yet have another place to play. AEG Facilities COO Chuck Steedman and Phelps could not get into negotiation details at the council meeting because of a non-disclosure agreement with the team, but Mr. Steedman described the negotiations as an open and honest dialogue.

“I will not pursue (the issue an extension of at least one-year) any further, but I will take it as a good sign,†Clark said.

“And please do,†Mr. Steedman replied. “You’d be right to do that.â€"

Source: http://yourwestvalley.com/news/business/new-gila-river-arena-management-bolsters-budget-return/

 

[Ciao]

^ Good news.

 

[MNNumbers]

New Gila River Arena management bolsters budget return

To quote:

"The black cloud over Gila River Arena is the CoyotesÂ’ contract at the arena, which expires at the end of the upcoming season. Coyotes ownership has expressed a desire to leave Glendale for other parts of the Valley in recent years but have yet to secure another place to play after their contract in Glendale expires.

City Manager Kevin Phelps said that AEG, which is handling negotiations with the Coyotes, has told IceArizona, the CoyotesÂ’ ownership, that it would be willing to extend the current agreement into a multi-year deal but provide IceArizona an opt out of that agreement, should it find a new place for the Coyotes to play. But IceArizona has yet to respond to that offer.

As for the short term, Councilwoman Joyce Clark hypothesized that it would be in the teamÂ’s best interest secure at least one more year in Glendale because they do not yet have another place to play. AEG Facilities COO Chuck Steedman and Phelps could not get into negotiation details at the council meeting because of a non-disclosure agreement with the team, but Mr. Steedman described the negotiations as an open and honest dialogue.

“I will not pursue (the issue an extension of at least one-year) any further, but I will take it as a good sign,†Clark said.

“And please do,†Mr. Steedman replied. “YouÂ’d be right to do that.Ââ€"

Source: http://yourwestvalley.com/news/business/new-gila-river-arena-management-bolsters-budget-return/

Good news about the arena. I'm mixed on the Coyotes side. It seems ominous that AEG has offered a multi-year arrangement (presumably at current terms) with an opt-out, and the team hasn't responded. I know there has been lots of discussion about that here before, and it's sort of a rehash, but that still seems ominous...

 

[Mightygoose]

I thought the Coyotes already have a year to year arrangement with the renewal at the end of each calendar year.

If Glendale is offering a multi-year agreement with an opt out should they find a new place to play, the team is going to need it anyways as it will take time to get the deal done and build. It depends on the terms, but I can't them being much different from what the city is offering now as they're good with the current terms.

If the Coyotes don't show any interest in such a term is a red flag IMO.

 

[cbcwpg]

What choice do the Coyotes have? Either keep extending the contract in Glendale 1 year at a time ( or even go for a longer term as suggested by the article ) OR move.

The sooner the Coyotes accept that their only home in the state of Arizona is going to be in Glendale, the better it will be for everyone. Suck it up, negotiate fair terms to play in Glendale, run your business better, and put a better product on the ice. See what happens...

 

[tony d]

They have to move, eventually you have to go long term in an area and not sign 1 yr. leasing deals 1 after the other.

 

[Llama19]

I thought the Coyotes already have a year to year arrangement with the renewal at the end of each calendar year.

If Glendale is offering a multi-year agreement with an opt out should they find a new place to play, the team is going to need it anyways as it will take time to get the deal done and build. It depends on the terms, but I can't them being much different from what the city is offering now as they're good with the current terms.

If the Coyotes don't show any interest in such a term is a red flag IMO.

You would be correct...

What choice do the Coyotes have? Either keep extending the contract in Glendale 1 year at a time ( or even go for a longer term as suggested by the article ) OR move.

The sooner the Coyotes accept that their only home in the state of Arizona is going to be in Glendale, the better it will be for everyone. Suck it up, negotiate fair terms to play in Glendale, run your business better, and put a better product on the ice. See what happens...

This goes against the narrative, by both Bettman and Barroway, of the "Coyotes cannot and will not remain in Glendale"...

They cannot, and likely will not, sign any multi-year agreement until such time that they get someone at the State Legislature to re-introduce, and pass, an arena bill...also unlikely...

Until then, they will stay on a year-to-year lease with AEG/Glendale...

They have to move, eventually you have to go long term in an area and not sign 1 yr. leasing deals 1 after the other.

They need to keep the charade going in that the Glendale arena is sub-standard to keep what little pressure on the State and various cities...in order to get their new arena...and to get other subsidy...but, once again, this is unlikely...

However, should that fail...there is always the fallback of the tribe...which from my understanding is a poison pill they do not care to take...

So, the likely outcome is Barroway's bankruptcy sale, and the franchise sold for relocation...

 

[Killion]

This goes against the narrative, by both Bettman and Barroway, of the "Coyotes cannot and will not remain in Glendale"...

They cannot, and likely will not, sign any multi-year agreement until such time that they get someone at the State Legislature to re-introduce, and pass, an arena bill...also unlikely...

Until then, they will stay on a year-to-year lease with AEG/Glendale...

I believe so as well yes, year to year. While it would go some distance in reaffirming their commitments to the market, creating confidence in signing a longer term lease theres essentially three things holding them back from doing so..... First is that they'd lose what little (frankly I think non-existent) leverage they seem to feel they have in operating under so short a lease agreement, that the State has to deal with this immediately & positively, give them what they want or the team could be gone as early as May/June 2018. I'm sure they'll renew at the end of this year for another year regardless as whatever early exit fee if one even exists not terribly onerous so really rather moot.

Secondly, complicating matters for Barroway & the NHL, the COG is not about to try & terminate its agreement with AEG, fold and return to yesteryear in re-negotiating with Barroway et al in appointing them as facility managers. AEG meanwhile does not seem pre-disposed to anykind of corporate benevolence in "sharing" non-hockey revenues & other channels of income, compromising their own bottom-line & relationship with the COG. The contract between those two pretty much cut & dry. Black & white. Theres no room to renegotiate & no $$$ to be sharing.

Thirdly, ego's are involved. The supersized ego of Gary Bettman & in lockstep Andrew Barroways' in casting a shadow over anything other than seemingly total surrender by the COG, admission that they erred, IA & the NHL in no way responsible for whats occurred. That door's been rudely & ungraciously slammed shut. Bridges burned, foundations blown up. To even think about it flys' in the face of their position that the arena location (combined with their characterizations of the COG's elected representatives as being treacherous, traitorous ingrate's that cant be trusted) is the cause of all their ill's. They cant plausibly lobby the State or any other muni having refused to accept any responsibility for their own epic failures & having drawn those lines in the sand theres no retreat.

Frankly it just about beggars belief to think that Barroway, Patterson & Bettman are "unaware" of just how steep the hill in securing anywhere close to enough votes let alone a sponsor or three, somehow ramming through a Bill that provides them with the kinds of funds required to not just build a new facility but then to also provide ongoing subsidies to operate & maintain the joint. Youd have to be a complete & utter fool to be putting all of your eggs in that basket because sure as shootin if you did you will die on that hill. Its not gunna happen. Not in the current climate in Arizona, and certainly not even if the climate considerably less crowded (D-Backs, Suns etc) when they already have a perfectly sound facility. Taxpayers already having dropped hundreds of millions & lots more still to pay down, the franchise's previous ownership & the NHL Tenants from Hell and who needs that?.

 

[mesamonster]

I believe so as well yes, year to year. While it would go some distance in reaffirming their commitments to the market, creating confidence in signing a longer term lease theres essentially three things holding them back from doing so..... First is that they'd lose what little (frankly I think non-existent) leverage they seem to feel they have in operating under so short a lease agreement, that the State has to deal with this immediately & positively, give them what they want or the team could be gone as early as May/June 2018. I'm sure they'll renew at the end of this year for another year regardless as whatever early exit fee if one even exists not terribly onerous so really rather moot.

Secondly, complicating matters for Barroway & the NHL, the COG is not about to try & terminate its agreement with AEG, fold and return to yesteryear in re-negotiating with Barroway et al in appointing them as facility managers. AEG meanwhile does not seem pre-disposed to anykind of corporate benevolence in "sharing" non-hockey revenues & other channels of income, compromising their own bottom-line & relationship with the COG. The contract between those two pretty much cut & dry. Black & white. Theres no room to renegotiate & no $$$ to be sharing.

Thirdly, ego's are involved. The supersized ego of Gary Bettman & in lockstep Andrew Barroways' in casting a shadow over anything other than seemingly total surrender by the COG, admission that they erred, IA & the NHL in no way responsible for whats occurred. That door's been rudely & ungraciously slammed shut. Bridges burned, foundations blown up. To even think about it flys' in the face of their position that the arena location (combined with their characterizations of the COG's elected representatives as being treacherous, traitorous ingrate's that cant be trusted) is the cause of all their ill's. They cant plausibly lobby the State or any other muni having refused to accept any responsibility for their own epic failures & having drawn those lines in the sand theres no retreat.

Frankly it just about beggars belief to think that Barroway, Patterson & Bettman are "unaware" of just how steep the hill in securing anywhere close to enough votes let alone a sponsor or three, somehow ramming through a Bill that provides them with the kinds of funds required to not just build a new facility but then to also provide ongoing subsidies to operate & maintain the joint. Youd have to be a complete & utter fool to be putting all of your eggs in that basket because sure as shootin if you did you will die on that hill. Its not gunna happen. Not in the current climate in Arizona, and certainly not even if the climate considerably less crowded (D-Backs, Suns etc) when they already have a perfectly sound facility. Taxpayers already having dropped hundreds of millions & lots more still to pay down, the franchise's previous ownership & the NHL Tenants from Hell and who needs that?.

Funny thing is, i think Barroway/Bettman know full well they are doomed. A new arena is a complete and utter pipe dream and yet they continue to lie about this franchise. Some may think Lie is pretty strong word to be using, I don`t. I think this is a classic case of elitist mentality believing that their customer base is too stupid to see through the deceit! This is going to be another down year on the ice and in the stands, the lies and the deceit are growing long in the tooth, the truth will be revealed in December when Barroway raises the white BK flag!

 

[cbcwpg]

This goes against the narrative, by both Bettman and Barroway, of the "Coyotes cannot and will not remain in Glendale"...

They cannot, and likely will not, sign any multi-year agreement until such time that they get someone at the State Legislature to re-introduce, and pass, an arena bill...also unlikely...

Until then, they will stay on a year-to-year lease with AEG/Glendale...

True... I guess the risk for IA would be that if they were to sign a longer term agreement with AEG, they could be sending the wrong message to the gov't types that would be approving tax dollars for a new building. IE: If you are willing to sign a longer term deal to stay in Glendale then that must mean you have an agreeable arrangement, so again, why do you need a new building?

I could see the Coyotes playing out of Glendale for the next 20 years.... all under 20 - 1 year leases..

 

[mesamonster]

True... I guess the risk for IA would be that if they were to sign a longer term agreement with AEG, they could be sending the wrong message to the gov't types that would be approving tax dollars for a new building. IE: If you are willing to sign a longer term deal to stay in Glendale then that must mean you have an agreeable arrangement, so again, why do you need a new building?

I could see the Coyotes playing out of Glendale for the next 20 years.... all under 20 - 1 year leases..

Only one problem with that theory; Whose money are they going to use?

 

[Acesolid]

What choice do the Coyotes have? Either keep extending the contract in Glendale 1 year at a time ( or even go for a longer term as suggested by the article ) OR move.

The sooner the Coyotes accept that their only home in the state of Arizona is going to be in Glendale, the better it will be for everyone. Suck it up, negotiate fair terms to play in Glendale, run your business better, and put a better product on the ice. See what happens...

And with whose millions will they pay the pay the players to play hockey in front of mostly empty seats in Glendale?

Because right now they are a money pit being kept afloat by seemingly endless interest free NHL loans that the Coyotes dont have to repay anytime soon.

But we all know that can't be a permanent state of affairs.

Or maybe it can, I dont know. Maybe the NHL simply doesn't care if the Coyotes ''debt to team value'' ratio becomes worst then Greece's.

 

[Llama19]

True... I guess the risk for IA would be that if they were to sign a longer term agreement with AEG, they could be sending the wrong message to the gov't types that would be approving tax dollars for a new building. IE: If you are willing to sign a longer term deal to stay in Glendale then that must mean you have an agreeable arrangement, so again, why do you need a new building?

I could see the Coyotes playing out of Glendale for the next 20 years.... all under 20 - 1 year leases..

Only one problem with that theory; Whose money are they going to use?

Why...the NHL's generous LOC...until Barroway cannot make the minimum payments or cover any cash calls...

 

[Mightygoose]

Why...the NHL's generous LOC...until Barroway cannot make the minimum payments or cover any cash calls...

Wasn't the NHL LOC retired when Barroway bought out IA?

Bought out as in with various loans ranging from 10 to 12% interest....and rising. Add another 25-30 million dollar loss per year here and there....sure they'll leg it out the next 20 years (they only need a 2-3 year term if they're really interested anyways).....the debt will likely be more than MLSE's new naming rights deal by then

 

[Llama19]

Wasn't the NHL LOC retired when Barroway bought out IA?

Bought out as in with various loans ranging from 10 to 12% interest....and rising. Add another 25-30 million dollar loss per year here and there....sure they'll leg it out the next 20 years (they only need a 2-3 year term if they're really interested anyways).....the debt will likely be more than MLSE's new naming rights deal by then

Sorry about that...yes, the LOC was retired...meant to say the NHL's generous discretionary fund...

 

[TheLegend]

I thought the Coyotes already have a year to year arrangement with the renewal at the end of each calendar year.

If Glendale is offering a multi-year agreement with an opt out should they find a new place to play, the team is going to need it anyways as it will take time to get the deal done and build. It depends on the terms, but I can't them being much different from what the city is offering now as they're good with the current terms.

If the Coyotes don't show any interest in such a term is a red flag IMO.

They do.... typical local reporting.

There's another paragraph in the article that mysteriously omits data regarding AEG's performance over all the years they have operated the arena, but can't pull it up from the iPhone at the moment.

In summary.... The article is a puff piece. And a bit of shot across the bow to Barroway to commit to a more stable timeline in respect to GRA.

The fact that AEG has offered a multi year agreement shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. After all it's their task to fill up the arena as best they can.

 

[TheLegend]

Good news about the arena. I'm mixed on the Coyotes side. It seems ominous that AEG has offered a multi-year arrangement (presumably at current terms) with an opt-out, and the team hasn't responded. I know there has been lots of discussion about that here before, and it's sort of a rehash, but that still seems ominous...

Seems more logical for the Coyotes to know where they really are before they commit to anything no? Barroway's had full control of the franchise what.... three months?? Patterson just came onboard like a month ago and now you have a publication with the readership of the Glendale Star suddenly drop an article extolling the virtues of AEG who's supposedly pushing a multi year agreement.

Uh huh....

 

[powerstuck]

Seems more logical for the Coyotes to know where they really are before they commit to anything no? Barroway's had full control of the franchise what.... three months?? Patterson just came onboard like a month ago and now you have a publication with the readership of the Glendale Star suddenly drop an article extolling the virtues of AEG who's supposedly pushing a multi year agreement.

Uh huh....

I agree, but if AEG is honest in their ''free-of-charge opt-out'', what's there for the Coyotes to lose ?

I mean you sign a (example) 5 years deal which gives you one less worry to think about for a few years. If you ever get a new location, you simply advise AEG X number of months in advance you will be terminating the current contract without any penalty.

Once again, if AEG is honest with their ''opt-out'' proposition.

 

[TheLegend]

I agree, but if AEG is honest in their ''free-of-charge opt-out'', what's there for the Coyotes to lose ?

I mean you sign a (example) 5 years deal which gives you one less worry to think about for a few years. If you ever get a new location, you simply advise AEG X number of months in advance you will be terminating the current contract without any penalty.

Once again, if AEG is honest with their ''opt-out'' proposition.

The scenario I can think of off the top is..... they commit to a 3 year lease and discover it'll take longer than that to get the new facility in place. Then you're in a very bad position when the those three years are up and needing to sign on for one or two more.

If they stay with what they have now then they have a lot more flexibility. And that includes leaving Arizona ASAP if they can't get the new facility built at all.

 

[Killion]

I agree, but if AEG is honest in their ''free-of-charge opt-out'', what's there for the Coyotes to lose ?

As I mentioned up-page ps.... they lose the excuse that their situation in Glendale is not only just terminal but mere months to live, so "Legislature, you need to act on this RIGHT NOW"!. If they signed a 3-5yr extension that evaporates, they lose what little artificial leverage they do have in the year x year lease. Its just not in their interests to extend for that reason, especially after having painted the location as being the reason for their lack of success in the past & the reason for their pending fatality if the State doesnt cough. All sense of emergency~urgency goes flying out the window, assumptions made that "it cant be all that bad if theyve signed an extension".... While tactically & practically this may not make sense as the year x year does little to instill confidence in the public, that they should invest emotionally & financially, they must have decided that whatever spike in ticket sales etc that might follow an extension isnt worth the loss of leverage with year x year pursuant to their lobbying efforts. They dont care about the customers, the fans. How much worse could it get? Their just minnows, guppies in the scheme of things.

No, no they have their sites on the Great White Whale, the hundreds of millions in tax dollars they hope to harpoon & pull from the public's sea's.

 

[Llama19]

As I mentioned up-page ps.... they lose the excuse that their situation in Glendale is not only just terminal but mere months to live, so "Legislature, you need to act on this RIGHT NOW"!. If they signed a 3-5yr extension that evaporates, they lose what little artificial leverage they do have in the year x year lease. Its just not in their interests to extend for that reason, especially after having painted the location as being the reason for their lack of success in the past & the reason for their pending fatality if the State doesnt cough. All sense of emergency~urgency goes flying out the window, assumptions made that "it cant be all that bad if theyve signed an extension".... While tactically & practically this may not make sense as the year x year does little to instill confidence in the public, that they should invest emotionally & financially, they must have decided that whatever spike in ticket sales etc that might follow an extension isnt worth the loss of leverage with year x year pursuant to their lobbying efforts. They dont care about the customers, the fans. How much worse could it get? Their just minnows, guppies in the scheme of things.

No, no they have their sites on the Great White Whale, the hundreds of millions in tax dollars they hope to harpoon & pull from the public's sea's.

Wait...there can be no whale analogies here...this is the Sock it to ME thread...

It should be more like this...

What's the arena news across the state
We have got no one to partake
in a way we hope will confuse - you -
We just love to give you our arena views
La da de da
Ladies and Gents, HFB looks at no real arena news!