Phoenix CXXII: Drawing a LeBlank

[Llama19]

For those that could not watch it live, the following are links to the screen-captured slides that were presented by Mitchell Ziets, representing the Coyotes, of Tipping Point Sports...

Arena Renderings
02-14-17-STTC-Arena01
02-14-17-STTC-Arena02
02-14-17-STTC-Arena03

Financials
02-14-17-STTC-01-FinancingLandscape
02-14-17-STTC-02-ChartingANewCourse
02-14-17-STTC-03-GuidingPrinciples
02-14-17-STTC-04-FundingSources
02-14-17-STTC-05-StateRevenueSharing
02-14-17-STTC-06-StateRevenueResults
02-14-17-STTC-07-TeamInvestment
02-14-17-STTC-08-EconomicImpact

Enjoy!

 

[BattleBorn]

Eww? What is the picture in the 02-14-17-STTC-Arena02 link?

Is that Veterans Memorial?

 

[Mike in MN]

In a vacuum its not an unreasonable deal for Arizona to use a Tiff to pay for half of the arena cost where they have no liabilities. Compared to new arenas built in Milwaukee, Edmonton and Sacramento its reasonable.

However, when you take into account there is already an existing tax payer funded arena in Glendale and likely another new arena down the road for the Suns that will all be competing against each other this is absolutely insane.
Just look at similar sized cities that have both a basketball and hockey team:
Toronto - 1 privately financed arena for both teams
Philadelphia - 1 privately financed arena for both teams
Dallas - 1 privately financed arena for both teams
Denver - 1 privately financed arena for both teams
Atlanta - 1 privately financed arena for both teams (now 1 team)
Minneapolis/ St Paul - 2 arenas for 2 teams (not sure how they were financed)

Now Phoenix - THREE PUBLICLY financed arenas for 2 teams.
Phoenix will also be the only market in North America (maybe even the world) that will have built 3 16000+ seat arenas this millennium.

The only was this makes any sense is if a city like Phoenix sets up the tiff and builds the arena for BOTH the Coyotes and Suns.

Minneapolis/ St Paul:
Target Center was privately built (90 million I believe), but the owners (Harv and Marv) had to be bailed out within a few years. Building purchased by the city of Minneapolis. Before it was built, there wasn't an arena in the city (besides at the U of MN)
Xcel Center was publicly financed (130 Million-ish): half from the city (roughly what it would have costed to reno the old Civic Center) and half a loan from the state to the city (although the remaining half of that loan was recently forgiven as part of the Vikings stadium bills) The Wild's lease covers something like 85- 90% of the bond payments

Like Phoenix, the two have separate owners and management and compete for concerts, etc. Unlike Phoenix, they are both in Downtown settings

 

[TheLegend]

Eww? What is the picture in the 02-14-17-STTC-Arena02 link?

Is that Veterans Memorial?

No... might have been the rendering for the ASU arena.

 

[XX]

The only was this makes any sense is if a city like Phoenix sets up the tiff and builds the arena for BOTH the Coyotes and Suns.

Suns have more capital and pull, and have a lot more say in any such proposal due to their existing lease, so they wouldn't be keen to share an arena (and thus revenues) anytime soon.

 

[objectiveposter]

Suns have more capital and pull, and have a lot more say in any such proposal due to their existing lease, so they wouldn't be keen to share an arena (and thus revenues) anytime soon.

Yeah. I get why the Coyotes want and need their own arena. I just find it ridiculous that there is now a real possibility that metro phoenix taxpayers will be helping finance 3 stadiums for 2 teams.

 

[WildGopher]

In some state legislatures, the Rules Committee's role here would be to assign it to either another committee or to the full Senate floor. The Rules Committee will also likely decide if/when bills get to come to the Senate floor at all. The Rules Committee is made up of some of the top Senators from each party, seven members total. Among the members are Kimberly Yee, Vice Chairman, from Glendale; and Debbie Lesko, Appropriations Committee Chair, who also represents part of Glendale. The Rules Committee chair is Steve Yarbrough, who someone posted earlier is quite fiscally conservative. Since the Rules Committee would have influence over when the bill gets a floor vote, they will be interesting to watch. They don't currently have an agenda posted for their next meeting.

If Sen. Lesko's bill is actually in opposition to the arena plan, which is the way I read it, then the Rules Committee really becomes a focus of power. If Lesko's bill passes the Finance Committee, and with Worsley's bill already passing the Transportation Committee, then in most legislatures the Rules Committee would decide which of the conflicting bills, if any of them, would get a vote on the Senate floor. If Rules is opposed to the arena, then they could use the passage of opposing bills in two committees to give a good reason to just sit on them both and never let either come to a vote on the Senate floor. So it's possible the deft maneuvering of Worsley and his IA's lobbyist is about to be parried by just-as-deft maneuvering by a bill (SB1404) that makes it much harder for SB1149 to happen, both because of the way it would change the law on Community Engagement Districts; and because it would give the Rules Committee, which might not be real disposed to see a new arena built, to just throw up their hands and not let either bill advance for a floor vote. Even-Steven, the legislature moves on to more important things, at least in the eyes of a conservative Rules Committee leadership weighted with two Senators of 7 who happen to represent Glendale!

So at the risk of the calories really piling up, because we've had a lot of this lately,

 

[Llama19]

Roberts: A $225 million subsidy for Coyotes? Really?

To quote:

"The Arizona Legislature is considering a proposal to provide a massive public subsidy to the Coyotes so they can build yet another place to play hockey.

Jim Norton, the Coyotes' lobbyist, says the team wants to be either in downtown Phoenix or the east Valley, closer to its fans.

So on Tuesday, the Senate Transportation Committee voted 6-1 to approve Senate Bill 1149 – which, conveniently, could be used by any team to snag a massive tax subsidy, provided they get cracking on their new digs before 2019.

“Fundamentally, what you are doing is you are going into the state general fund and you are appropriating dollars to a private concern,†said Sean McCarthy of the Arizona Tax Research Association.

He’s right, of course, but in the end it didn’t matter. The bill sailed through the committee, 6-1.

Cue Sen. Bob Worsley, R-Mesa, who is running the bill: “I feel for this organization, that they have the right to vote with their feet and do what they think is right for them and their fans.â€"

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...ves-way-225-million-coyotes-subsidy/97921252/

 

[Llama19]

 

[Slot]

Waiting on a LeBlank Cheque?

 

[Llama19]

Arizona Coyotes' $395 million arena plan gets new life

To quote:

"The bill would allow creation of "community engagement" districts of up to 30 acres. Within them, up to half of the state's share of sales taxes generated from retail sales and hotel stays would be dedicated to paying the bond debt for new sports or entertainment facilities. It also would allow an additional 2 percent district sales tax to be applied to all purchases within the district, with those revenues also dedicated to defraying the cost of facility construction.

The state sales-tax rate is 5 percent, feeding Arizona's general fund that pays for K-12 education, community colleges, universities, prisons, health insurance for the poor and other services.

The bill further requires the user of the facility and the city in which it is located to pay up to half of construction debt.

In the case of the Coyotes, the plan envisions public funding covering 57 percent of a new arena's cost, with new sales taxes covering $170 million and the host city contributing $55 million. The Coyotes said the team's portion would be $170 million, amounting to a 43 percent contribution toward the $395 million total cost.

Previously, the Coyotes said they would pay half of the arena cost.

[Glendale City Manager Kevin] Phelps said he has spoken to Worsley about his legislation, and understands the senator's motivation is ensuring the team stays in Arizona. But, "I think where the disconnect comes in is that I think (Glendale is) very much still a viable option and it's a much smarter option for the team and the taxpayers to figure out a solution here," he said.

Phelps said he "doesn't think it's appropriate to use taxpayer dollars to fund for-profit professional teams," but the city would consider investing additional money into the arena — which could generate extra revenue for the team — if it received a commitment from the Coyotes for the team to stay long term."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...95-million-arena-plan-gets-new-life/97901834/

 

[Glacial]

So when is the vote in the rules committee?

Per above, this road the Coyotes are on has several hurdles to clear:
1. Senate Transportation Committee (cleared)
2. Senate Rules Committee
3. Senate
4. House
5. Governor

It's a long road and the Coyotes need everything to break their way. The odds seem against them, especially steps 3 & 4, although stranger things have happened with small odds so it might just be in keeping with the times.

 

[TheLegend]

Arizona Coyotes' $395 million arena plan gets new life

To quote:

"The bill would allow creation of "community engagement" districts of up to 30 acres. Within them, up to half of the state's share of sales taxes generated from retail sales and hotel stays would be dedicated to paying the bond debt for new sports or entertainment facilities. It also would allow an additional 2 percent district sales tax to be applied to all purchases within the district, with those revenues also dedicated to defraying the cost of facility construction.

The state sales-tax rate is 5 percent, feeding Arizona's general fund that pays for K-12 education, community colleges, universities, prisons, health insurance for the poor and other services.

The bill further requires the user of the facility and the city in which it is located to pay up to half of construction debt.

In the case of the Coyotes, the plan envisions public funding covering 57 percent of a new arena's cost, with new sales taxes covering $170 million and the host city contributing $55 million. The Coyotes said the team's portion would be $170 million, amounting to a 43 percent contribution toward the $395 million total cost.

Previously, the Coyotes said they would pay half of the arena cost.

[Glendale City Manager Kevin] Phelps said he has spoken to Worsley about his legislation, and understands the senator's motivation is ensuring the team stays in Arizona. But, "I think where the disconnect comes in is that I think (Glendale is) very much still a viable option and it's a much smarter option for the team and the taxpayers to figure out a solution here," he said.

Phelps said he "doesn't think it's appropriate to use taxpayer dollars to fund for-profit professional teams," but the city would consider investing additional money into the arena — which could generate extra revenue for the team — if it received a commitment from the Coyotes for the team to stay long term."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...95-million-arena-plan-gets-new-life/97901834/

I found that statement intriguing.....

Leaving all the rhetoric about location aside...... What if Glendale used the legislation and turned Westgate into a district??

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I found that statement intriguing.....

Leaving all the rhetoric about location aside...... What if Glendale used the legislation and turned Westgate into a district??

I think that bridge has burned, been turned into scrap, and sold on the street for pennies on the dollar.

 

[TheLegend]

I think that bridge has burned, been turned into scrap, and sold on the street for pennies on the dollar.

Possibly... could just be Glendale's own version of "LeBlustering"

Or they want to offer LeBlanc another Tim Hortons outlet in downtown Glendale.

But the general consensus seemed to be Glendale had all the leverage here, and this would fly in the face of it.

 

[WildGopher]

So when is the vote in the rules committee?

If AZ is like most states, the Rules Committee won't do an up-or-down vote on the bill like other committees, but has the job of assigning the bill either to its next committee or to a vote on the Senate floor. It would also assign the date for floor action. It could also do some funky things, like never assigning it to the floor for a vote at all, especially if a competing bill passes in another committee. That would leave the bill to die on the vine, a possibility I raised because two of the Rules Committee's seven members represent Glendale and presumably would oppose this bill. I know of at least one state where this maneuver would not be allowed, though, and I don't know the rules in AZ.

As of now, the Rules Committee has not posted an agenda for its next meeting, which likely will be Monday.

 

[WildGopher]

Worsley has done well for himself, he has the scratch to throw around like that. No problem with well-to-do citizens taking an active role in governance. It's a case by case basis. Here, clearly we have a civil servant that is a fine steward of the public trust who's goal seems to be installing a slew of fee and tax schemes that one could potentially skim back 10x on representing his constituency by enacting meaningful laws that will create positive outcomes for the community!

Now what Cazh Fan has done there - well, you might think of it as kind of a Strike Everything amendment. Yeah, kind of like what Worsley did with SB1474 and 1149. "Nothing to see here," he might say, just a little "technical change," hardly changes the meaning at all.

 

[varano]

Can someone explain how on earth this happend?

 

[cbcwpg]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...95-million-arena-plan-gets-new-life/97901834/

Glendale City Manager Kevin Phelps said that by 2033, Glendale will have invested more than $500 million between principal, interest, arena management and infrastructure improvements.

**

Add into that the ~$400 million that LeBlanc is looking at a new arena costing and other unknown amounts that will be asked for in the future ( and sorry, given IA's track record we know they will be asking ) ... we are looking at approaching 1 Billion dollars to keep a hockey team in Arizona. A hockey team that even if it ever became profitable, will NEVER re-coop the outlay of cash that has been put into keeping it.

Someone needs to ask why? Or is lighting piles of taxpayer money on fire and getting nothing in return just something that politicians in Arizona do for fun?

 

[Slashers98]

There must be something in the water in Arizona for this saga to continue...

 

[Llama19]

Can someone explain how on earth this happend?

In a word...Axiom

 

[MNNumbers]

Well, like I say, I feel really really bad for Arizona taxpayers.

225M for a hockey team, after Glendale has spent 500M over the years. Wow. Just wow.

My only hope now is that the rules committee and/or the main floor and/or Ducey decides "No", we can't do that.

Which, for them to do, they would have to consider the reality of what is being asked for. It's not just a TIF. In the Yotes case, the money will come short, no matter where it is, and the state taxpayers will be on the hook.

Or, the city they target as their next victim will refuse to play the game.

Please, please someone grow some smarts.

 

[Llama19]

Well, like I say, I feel really really bad for Arizona taxpayers.

225M for a hockey team, after Glendale has spent 500M over the years. Wow. Just wow.

My only hope now is that the rules committee and/or the main floor and/or Ducey decides "No", we can't do that.

Which, for them to do, they would have to consider the reality of what is being asked for. It's not just a TIF. In the Yotes case, the money will come short, no matter where it is, and the state taxpayers will be on the hook.

Or, the city they target as their next victim will refuse to play the game.

Please, please someone grow some smarts.

The Americans for Prosperity, AZ Free Enterprise Club and AZ Tax Research Association are big time Republican organizations which have a lot of influence on the Republican Caucus.

It will be interesting to see if the Republican Caucus will support SB1149, since Education funding is at the forefront in a very tight budget where the major players are promising not to raise taxes...

 

[GuelphStormer]

so prior to the vote yesterday, nobody bothered to run a credit check on tony?

we've still been told next to nothing about where the franchise's $170M is supposedly coming from, although one of the tweets suggested it was coming from a loan?

also, has tempe voiced an opinion about the $55M they are supposedly contributing?

 

[Llama19]

so prior to the vote yesterday, nobody bothered to run a credit check on tony?

we've still been told next to nothing about where the franchise's $170M is supposedly coming from, although one of the tweets suggested it was coming from a loan?

also, has tempe voiced an opinion about the $55M they are supposedly contributing?

Posted a comment from Ziets in talking about financing...

Again, the presentation great on 'projections' but 'light' on specifics...