Phoenix CXVIII: No Promises

[Killion]

lame duck (n.)
1761, "any disabled person or thing;" especially Stock Exchange slang for "defaulter."

A lame duck is a man who cannot pay his differences, and is said to waddle off. [Thomas Love Peacock, "Gryll Grange," 1861]

Source: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=lame+duck

... thank you for the link & etymological lesson.

So they need to negotiate a new arena deal with AEG. Shouldn't they get started on that now?

Yes indeed. Something that shouldve been done last spring. Just common sense. Everyone from broadcasters to sponsors, seasons ticket holders, management & players, everybody. You cant be flying by the seat of your pants year by year. Ice Arizona thinks they got kicked in the crotch and fine. You dont lie around wallowing on the ice crying about it. Crawl to the bench, get your mind & body together. Get over it. Lost a battle but your in the middle of a war. So rather than taking ineffective pot shots, making idiotic proclamations & creating artificial deadlines for oneself, get real, get a deal done with AEG & get on with it. That they havent does nothing but give rise to the theory that yeah, done like dinner, teams moving next year. Only they can silence this. Making a bad situation worse in not getting a deal done with AEG and I mean like yesterday. Its only natural people are going to assume the worst. So, you get out in front of it. The longer it goes on the worse its gonna get for them. Masochists, completely incompetent, power struggle going on with outsized ego's running wild or whats the deal?

 

[Fairview]

So they need to negotiate a new arena deal with AEG. Shouldn't they get started on that now?

I doubt that they sign any lease extension just yet. The non-extension is the ultimate bargaining chip that they will use in getting the state to subsidize the money pit. They will ask the state to "show me the money"...prove to us that you want us to stay.

 

[TheLegend]

"It's not by choice that we face new questions and question marks season after season" Maybe these questions wouldn't be there if the highest paid player on the team wasn't playing in the KHL.

Except there's a big glaring error in your post in that the Coyotes are not paying him anything.

But thanks for playing anyway.

 

[Llama19]

They had an initial discussion with AEG at the NHL Awards Show. Something LeBlanc mentioned a while back that nobody picked up on because it didn't fit the narrative.

Have you heard anything else about it in the past 100 days?

...So rather than taking ineffective pot shots, making idiotic proclamations & creating artificial deadlines for oneself, get real, get a deal done with AEG & get on with it...

I doubt that they sign any lease extension just yet. The non-extension is the ultimate bargaining chip that they will use in getting the state to subsidize the money pit...

To quote:

"[CEO Anthony ] LeBlanc said he expects the Coyotes to stay in Glendale for the next three years while their new arena is under construction. He met with officials from AEG Facilities, which manages Gila River Arena, at the NHL’s Board of Governors meeting last week [around June 17 - Ed.] to discuss a lease extension in Glendale, but said nothing concrete has been put in place as of yet.

“There’s no real rush because of the fact that we already have this year’s lease in place,” LeBlanc said. “But as I’ve said, we’ve had the discussions with AEG about the extension, and the word back is ‘just let us know when you need it and we’ll get it wrapped,’ so we’re not concerned about that at all.”

AEG officials could not be reached for comment. "

Source: https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2016/06/24/arizona-coyotes-new-arena-site/

 

[Fairview]

They had an initial discussion with AEG at the NHL Awards Show. Something LeBlanc mentioned a while back that nobody picked up on because it didn't fit the narrative.

When was that discussion again...June??? The fact that they talked 3 months ago and no extension is not narrative...just facts

If I want to get really into a narrative, I might ask..when was the last time ...if any..that Tony said anything that turned out to be true??

 

[TheLegend]

Have you heard anything else about it in the past 100 days?

No..... and why should we??

They can't negotiate or complete an extension until they know how long they need it for.

But for all,anyone knows they could already have something tentative in place except for the length of time. And given the amount of backlash the sliding announcements have created I doubt they would say anything until it's set in stone.

 

[cbcwpg]

Uh...... a little hint is in order here.......

2.0

20 years in Arizona.

#Ari20na. (the current hashtag they use on Twitter)


Beginning to see it now?????

Spin it however you want. I do see it now.... if Tony wanted to honour / celebrate 20 years then he would have mentioned that and signed the letter with something like ari20na. When anyone mentions 2.0 they are referring to the new iteration, the new version, the better version, of something. This is a new start according to mgmt , hence 2.0.

 

[BattleBorn]

No..... and why should we??

They can't negotiate or complete an extension until they know how long they need it for.

But for all,anyone knows they could already have something tentative in place except for the length of time. And given the amount of backlash the sliding announcements have created I doubt they would say anything until it's set in stone.

Assuming they were super happy with Glendale and GRA I don't imagine we'd really need/want to hear anything. The fact that they're trying to leave in the near term and put up their own arena somewhere else in the valley would seem to make it worth mentioning that things are progressing. You know, put people's minds at ease and stop the megathread at the very least.

 

[Killion]

To quote:

"[CEO Anthony ] LeBlanc said he expects the Coyotes to stay in Glendale for the next three years while their new arena is under construction. He met with officials from AEG Facilities, which manages Gila River Arena, at the NHL’s Board of Governors meeting last week [around June 17 - Ed.] to discuss a lease extension in Glendale, but said nothing concrete has been put in place as of yet.

“There’s no real rush because of the fact that we already have this year’s lease in place,” LeBlanc said. “But as I’ve said, we’ve had the discussions with AEG about the extension, and the word back is ‘just let us know when you need it and we’ll get it wrapped,’ so we’re not concerned about that at all.”

AEG officials could not be reached for comment. "

... ok.... why then does he say "we're not concerned about that at all" when that should in fact be his absolute #1 priority as COO or whatever the Hell his title is with the Club & IceArizona?
How could he be so "casual & cavalier" about something so fundamentally important & critical to his entire business operation on & off the ice? Its just mind blowing. Yet, he what? Doesnt get that?

 

[Fairview]

No..... and why should we??

They can't negotiate or complete an extension until they know how long they need it for.

But for all,anyone knows they could already have something tentative in place except for the length of time. And given the amount of backlash the sliding announcements have created I doubt they would say anything until it's set in stone.

Quite easy in fact..Just announce a 1 year extension with an option to extend for whatever time they will need to build the arena?

But you actually think that it is better to keep the extension a secret
This coming from a LeBlank that can't help but tell everyone how excited he is about the new arena process in today's Coyote Morgan article...

NOT BELIEVABLE WHEN DEALING WITH TONY

 

[TheLegend]

When was that discussion again...June??? The fact that they talked 3 months ago and no extension is not narrative...just facts

If I want to get really into a narrative, I might ask..when was the last time ...if any..that Tony said anything that turned out to be true??

The fact was they had talked to AEG in June. Since then the narrative here has been they have done nothing at all about an extension.

But I get it...... the fact that they haven't informed the good folks at BoH about what they've been doing since June has had some people reaching into their imaginations looking for reasons to be negative.

Spin it however you want. I do see it now.... if Tony wanted to honour / celebrate 20 years then he would have mentioned that and signed the letter with something like ari20na. When anyone mentions 2.0 they are referring to the new iteration, the new version, the better version, of something. This is a new start according to mgmt , hence 2.0.

That does work...... Whyshinski played it that way in his piece.

Quite easy in fact..Just announce a 1 year extension with an option to extend for whatever time they will need to build the arena?

But you actually think that it is better to keep the extension a secret
This coming from a LeBlank that can't help but tell everyone how excited he is about the new arena process in today's Coyote Morgan article...

NOT BELIEVABLE WHEN DEALING WITH TONY

Already explained in a post above. You're trying to make something of nothing here.

 

[Killion]

No..... and why should we??

They can't negotiate or complete an extension until they know how long they need it for.

But for all,anyone knows they could already have something tentative in place except for the length of time. And given the amount of backlash the sliding announcements have created I doubt they would say anything until it's set in stone.

Oh c'mon Man. That is just beyond lame... You seriously believe AEG is going to play Hardball with a Ward of the NHL Family? That their gunna demand a 5yr deal or whatever with an onerous exit clause? Look, AEG = NHL. One & Same. This is an inside-job. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that I can fathom, imagine or think of that would give me pause to immediately signing an Extension with AEG if I was in his shoes. Everything to gain & nothing to lose. I dont know what the problem or hangup is here but something else is going on that is causing this dysfunction. A dysfunction that I believe emanates from IceArizona. No question both AEG & the League would like this "wrapped" ASAP. Shouldve been done months ago.

 

[TheLegend]

Assuming they were super happy with Glendale and GRA I don't imagine we'd really need/want to hear anything. The fact that they're trying to leave in the near term and put up their own arena somewhere else in the valley would seem to make it worth mentioning that things are progressing. You know, put people's minds at ease and stop the megathread at the very least.

What..... end the megathread???

And make me change myself to Vegas Forum Gadfly???

 

[Fairview]

The fact was they had talked to AEG in June. Since then the narrative here has been they have done nothing at all about an extension.

But I get it...... the fact that they haven't informed the good folks at BoH about what they've been doing since June has had some people reaching into their imaginations looking for reasons to be negative.

You ARE talking about Tony LeBlank..right??

This is the same guy that makes announcements about upcoming announcements about piles of dirt..in your heart of hearts, you actually believe that he would not be blabbering from the roof tops that AEG even answered the phone?

You are right about 1 thing though..nothing has been done or said about any extension in 3 months or so. You may think that is a positive...I don't

Didn't they say something about showing the market that they intend to stay...a lease extension would certainly be a way of showing how committed they are.

 

[TheLegend]

Oh c'mon Man. That is just beyond lame... You seriously believe AEG is going to play Hardball with a Ward of the NHL Family? That their gunna demand a 5yr deal or whatever with an onerous exit clause? Look, AEG = NHL. One & Same. This is an inside-job. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that I can fathom, imagine or think of that would give me pause to immediately signing an Extension with AEG if I was in his shoes. Everything to gain & nothing to lose. I dont know what the problem or hangup is here but something else is going on that is causing this dysfunction. A dysfunction that I believe emanates from IceArizona. No question both AEG & the League would like this "wrapped" ASAP. Shouldve been done months ago.

I'm consistently amazed as to how a simple concept as waiting until you have all your ducks in a row before making any public announcement can be stretched, twisted, churned and ground up into some major conspiracy theory.

It's really killing everyone.

 

[Fairview]

I'm consistently amazed as to how a simple concept as waiting until you have all your ducks in a row before making any public announcement can be stretched, twisted, churned and ground up into some major conspiracy theory.

It's really killing everyone.

And I am consistently amazed how something as simple as a lease extension cannot be completed by this ownership group

It's killing me that some people actually think this is a good sign

 

[Killion]

I'm consistently amazed as to how a simple concept as waiting until you have all your ducks in a row before making any public announcement can be stretched, twisted, churned and ground up into some major conspiracy theory.

It's really killing everyone.

... blows my mind that this guy, this organization, that they cant even get the most basic simplest common sense tasks accomplished without creating controversies & a whole litany of problems for themselves... rocking themselves even further back on their heels. Its just incredible. Had they signed an Extension with AEG in May or June, I mean... just think about it...

1. It would have been extremely favorable. AEG likely sharing a lot more than just hockey revenues. No financial penalty for early exit.

2. They couldve jointly (AEG & IA) held a presser, "hockey solid at GRA for at least the next 3-5yrs folks". BAM!!!

3. Tony/IA couldve then said all the right things about their pursuit of a new facility, no deadlines, looking for the best location, most advantageous relationship, all options on the table, totally committed to the market, not going anywhere.

4. Seasons Ticket Holders, Suite Holders, Sponsors, Broadcasters & Media Partners, Management & Players, off-ice team personnel etc all reassured knowing "hey, these guys are for real, not going anywhere" & so on & so forth.

Why is this a problem? Just common sense for Gods Sake. You need the publics, the corporate community & the medias support. In light of everything thats gone down already an uphill battle BUT... one that can be won. But not like this it cant. Theyve lost crucial critical time over the spring-summer and now here we are. Tony doesnt seem to think it matters. "Whenever". Meanwhile peoples money, the corporate dollar, it gets committed elsewhere. Fine if youve got more money than God & could care less but this? What the Hell do you call so laissez faire an attitude about something so fundamentally critical?

 

[Fairview]

... blows my mind that this guy, this organization, that they cant even get the most basic simplest common sense tasks accomplished without creating controversies & a whole litany of problems for themselves... rocking themselves even further back on their heels. Its just incredible. Had they signed an Extension with AEG in May or June, I mean... just think about it...

1. It would have been extremely favorable. AEG likely sharing a lot more than just hockey revenues. No financial penalty for early exit.

2. They couldve jointly (AEG & IA) held a presser, "hockey solid at GRA for at least the next 3-5yrs folks". BAM!!!

3. Tony/IA couldve then said all the right things about their pursuit of a new facility, no deadlines, looking for the best location, most advantageous relationship, all options on the table, totally committed to the market, not going anywhere.

4. Seasons Ticket Holders, Suite Holders, Sponsors, Broadcasters & Media Partners, Management & Players, off-ice team personnel etc all reassured knowing "hey, these guys are for real, not going anywhere" & so on & so forth.

Why is this a problem? Just common sense for Gods Sake. You need the publics, the corporate community & the medias support. In light of everything thats gone down already an uphill battle BUT... one that can be won. But not like this it cant. Theyve lost crucial critical time over the spring-summer and now here we are. Tony doesnt seem to think it matters. "Whenever". Meanwhile peoples money, the corporate dollar, it gets committed elsewhere. Fine if youve got more money than God & could care less but this? What the Hell do you call so laissez faire an attitude about something so fundamentally critical?

Killion..I agree with you on all of the above. It is amazing that someone would try to spin the non-lease as a positive...yikes... talk about rose colored glasses. To even suggest, that the non-lease is just spin and narrative

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Yeah, Nothing announced for next year is concerning to my uninformed eyes.

I think we're in pretty uncharted territory right now though.

 

[Killion]

Killion..I agree with you on all of the above. It is amazing that someone would try to spin the non-lease as a positive...yikes... talk about rose colored glasses. To even suggest, that the non-lease is just spin and narrative

Well, in fairness Fairview as Ive considered that, both sides of the narrative & why, it stems from the fact that IA has another year left (this upcoming season) on an adjunct sub-lease as you know. LeBlanc feeling that as a result of that theres no urgency to signing an Extension, lots of time to get it done and on one level thats absolutely correct. Problem is, this is a multi-leveled multi-tiered Wedding Cake including multiple levels of sub-basements and very expensive to build, maintain & operate. Every month, week & day thats passed without an Extension being announced cripples this franchises ability to turn cash money over.

If we are to believe that they actually do own and or are in the process of buying this franchise, then they already have massive debt to the league & Wells-Fargo (or maybe Citi-Bank) all the while bleeding it like hemophiliacs engaged in a 4 year knife throwing party blasted out of their minds on Blow & Everclear.... Because thats exactly how theyve been behaving. Out of control. No idea what their doing, unconscionably & criminally ripping off everyone in site, lying about everything. They lied to Judge Baum & Glendale in 2009, in 2012 through Hulsizer & sent both Reinsdorf & Jamison packing. The deal in 2013 an absolute abomination. One lie leads to another & another & another.... cant stop. Too late Tony.

Yet here they had an opportunity, last spring, to start afresh. Sure. A year left yet ominously, LeBlanc declares War on Glendale, not playing out of GRA beyond this season, Foster Parents NHL/AEG intervene & shockingly the COG goes along with it, awards the Arena Mgmnt Contract to them in the hope that sanity will prevail. Over-paying for that privilege and OVER-PAYING yet again. AEG now the Buffer. Professionals who can hopefully deal with these psychotic Morons and get a deal done. Yet... seemingly they cant either. So whats going on? Whats really going on? I can tell you Ive heard from friends & sources in Arizona that my "knife throwing Blow & Everclear" analogy isnt pure fantasy & that its rooted in some truth so maybe, just maybe there really is a big problem here with this "Crew" yes? How anyone with even the most rudimentary understanding of the sports & entertainment sector, that they would just "walk past" the obvious so obliviously, no understanding of the importance that an Extension YESTERDAY represents... what can you say? What other explanation other than "look Man, Im wasted out of my Brain and dont care" would explain their actions in the face of such gross incompetence & negligence?

 

[Mightygoose]

Yeah, Nothing announced for next year is concerning to my uninformed eyes.

I think we're in pretty uncharted territory right now though.

I agree.

With thier time during the league owned years, they we're on a year to year basis lease-wise but they always had a municipal partner that had just enough votes to give the team and league what it wants giving it a reason to stick around.

That municipality is less of a partner now to the league's liking, last off season had a valid lease entact so yes, entering unchartered land more and more every day.

 

[CasualFan]

RE: 2.0

I like it. I think most teams roll out new marketing slogans/campaigns each season and a lot of them are probably a bit cheesy. But its marketing, right? Up here, for 2016-2017 it's "Sharks for Life"

The expiring lease obviously creates a lot of uncertainty and Team Tony have repeatedly made fools of themselves - but using that as cover to make hyper-critical comments about a marketing letter seems kind of strange to me. But to each their own, I guess.

 

[Fairview]

^ well said Killion. The financial implications of a lease extension announcement in June seems like so much common sense..yet unbelievably nothing.Instead, ridiculous statements and timelines about arena construction, which , now Tony admits were more wishful thinking than anything...yet the lease extension was there for the taking. If the financial implications were not evident to the IA group, you would think that they at least extend the lease for the peace of mind of their most important resources..the fans. They want the fans to buy in and believe, yet they give nothing to support the fans. People supporting the ownership group are now trying to say that unbelievably, not having a lease is good news or worse yet, that the team has a lease agreement and for some bizarre reason do not want their fans to know that. Tony says .."it's all good folks" and in spite of evidence to the contrary they expect the fans to buy in..

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

When do you sign in arena sponsorships and luxury boxes?

 

[Killion]

RE: 2.0

I like it. I think most teams roll out new marketing slogans/campaigns each season and a lot of them are probably a bit cheesy. But its marketing, right? Up here, for 2016-2017 it's "Sharks for Life".

Sharks have to keep moving, hunting & being successful at it 24/7-365 or they die.... What we have in Tony & Co is a Shark that never was.
This is no Hasso Plattner who can afford some sleep. See, CF.... entrepreneurs are willing to work 80hrs a week to avoid working 40hrs a week.

Savvy?