Phoenix CXIII: Astrobucks, Omnishambles, and Other Catchy Words

[Llama19]

Roberts: Does Phoenix really have the money to build a new arena?

To quote:

"To his credit – and because he’s no dummy -- [Phoenix Mayor] Stanton is expected to nix the idea of any new taxes to pay for the new sports complex.

The city has since sold the hotel – at a dead loss – so maybe the bleeding has eased. But is there enough left in that fund to build a new sports complex for both the Suns and the Coyotes without taking money from elsewhere, here in a city that can't afford to hire cops?

And will the Suns – easily the more sympathetic team, given that the team is playing in one the NBA’s oldest arenas -- be willing to share what must be its considerable profits from naming rights and suites and such with the Coyotes, which are desperate to get out of Glendale?

And the most important question of all: are Phoenix voters ready to shell out for yet another sports mecca?"

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...x-really-have-money-build-new-arena/83235402/

 

[Whileee]

Roberts: Does Phoenix really have the money to build a new arena?

To quote:

"To his credit – and because he’s no dummy -- [Phoenix Mayor] Stanton is expected to nix the idea of any new taxes to pay for the new sports complex.

The city has since sold the hotel – at a dead loss – so maybe the bleeding has eased. But is there enough left in that fund to build a new sports complex for both the Suns and the Coyotes without taking money from elsewhere, here in a city that can't afford to hire cops?

And will the Suns – easily the more sympathetic team, given that the team is playing in one the NBA’s oldest arenas -- be willing to share what must be its considerable profits from naming rights and suites and such with the Coyotes, which are desperate to get out of Glendale?

And the most important question of all: are Phoenix voters ready to shell out for yet another sports mecca?"

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...x-really-have-money-build-new-arena/83235402/

...a couple more questions.

Where will the Coyotes play until a new arena is available in downtown Phoenix?

How will they be economically viable for the next few years while they wait to move into a new arena?

 

[cbcwpg]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...enix-greg-stanton-state-of-the-city/83234602/


COMING SOON: Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton gives State of the City speech

But the largest announcement of Stanton's address will likely be his support for pursuing a deal to build a new downtown sports and entertainment arena that would be shared by the Phoenix Suns and the Arizona Coyotes.

***

Just wondering.... did Stanton tell the Sun's that they would be sharing this arena and revenues with the Coyotes?

 

[cutchemist42]

Would it be better if that timeframe is too long for the Coyottes to take losses, to relocate to LV and grant a frest expansion franchise to Phx in 5 years?

 

[BattleBorn]

Would it be better if that timeframe is too long for the Coyottes to take losses, to relocate to LV and grant a frest expansion franchise to Phx in 5 years?

Could make sense. The only reason Arizona to Las Vegas makes sense at all is to clear the debt with the Coyotes. I doubt that happens though, who gives up a bird in the hand for one that might come in five years if the voters approve an arena, if the Suns want to work with a team, if the league wants the same owners in Phoenix, etc.?

Everything is IA's decision until they can no longer afford their payments. Even a move to Vegas would wind up being IA's decision to sell after (I'm sure) some pretty strong lobbying by the other teams.

 

[Llama19]

...a couple more questions.

Where will the Coyotes play until a new arena is available in downtown Phoenix?

Well, they can always play in their practice facility, once the renovations are completed...

However, these still seem to be their current NHL-sized options:

1) Rental play at Gila River Arena
2) Rental play at Talking Stick Arena

How will they be economically viable for the next few years while they wait to move into a new arena?

I do not see how they can...

 

[Killion]

I'm starting to think that we might all be wrong and they actually have some money or the ability to get money.

Nothing else makes sense if this all goes forward based on what is "common" BoH knowledge.

... dont quite understand what you mean here, "common BOH knowledge"?....It's pretty much common knowledge these guys are not your ordinary common garden variety Big4 Sports Franchise owners, financially falling well short of the mark & financed up the ying-yang, propped up by the COG, creditors & the NHL. They can make payroll, cover expenses and sure, even buy themselves an AHL franchise.... As mentioned by another Poster... funny how it just so happens that coincidentally $5M of liquidity just so happens to fall in their laps huh?...Follow the money, connecting the dots childs play.

Is Phoenix really willing to play hardball with Sarver? The Suns are a sports icon in that area, much bigger business than the Coyotes.

Also, in the hypothetical situation where Sarver funds the new Suns arena mostly or entirely on his own...why does he share it with the Coyotes in the first place? Am I missing something?

No, your not missing anything. This is merely a politician playing politics. When things get "real" & Sarver flexes his muscles, bounce that notion of a shared facility with intrusive pickpockets in IceArizona right out the car door while doing about a buck sixty.

...a couple more questions.

Where will the Coyotes play until a new arena is available in downtown Phoenix?

How will they be economically viable for the next few years while they wait to move into a new arena?

... at lets say conservatively losses of app $30M per annum x's minimum 3-4 years?... with debt requiring servicing... with a loan from the NHL falling due... you tell me? Either Bettman has more latitude with the BOG's on this file than is even imaginable or.... its all just more smoke & mirrors. Part of a grand exit strategy. To give the impression that IA & the NHL have done everything humanly possible to keep the team in Arizona & to foster growth of the game in the state. Make people forget about the lies told, all those tens of millions extorted from public coffers, vacating a beautiful state of the art building put up quite specifically to house them. That their absolute failures, losers & should be ashamed of themselves. Turn the tables, turn the tide. All Glendales fault.

... Just wondering.... did Stanton tell the Sun's that they would be sharing this arena and revenues with the Coyotes?

As I said, my opinion, its so early in the game, all concept, he's a politician, lets please everybody, popular middle grounder with Sarver taking the same tack but just... no.... not gunna happen..... Sarver = Jerry Colangelo Part II.... Theres no way he drops $250M then cuts off his arm to spite his face & essentially "gift" the Arizona Coyotes a nice big chunk of naming rights & building revenues as a tenant. As things ramp up over the next 12-24-36mnths (assuming the Coyotes even exist past the spring of 2017), he'll be taking the gloves. No more Mr. Accommodation. He's in the drivers seat.

 

[BattleBorn]

All that is understood, and I think the common knowledge that I referred to is that they've got no money.

I'm starting to think that may not be true.

The IA people literally have a get out of jail free card right now. Sell the franchise for a profit, settle all the debts associated with the Coyotes, and move on. They don't appear to be doing that with these recent moves. They're at a point now where there's really nowhere to go if the franchise isn't sold and the arena thing doesn't work out in Phoenix. Yet they're out there chasing the arena.

If the arena doesn't work out what do they do? Hope for Portland to come purchase the team and grind down on the price and dragging down franchise values for everyone else?

They're either putting together a package for Foley (he likely couldn't purchase an AHL team now with the way things are) or they're legitimately in this for the long haul. If they're in for the long haul they've got money we don't know about (like the money for the new arena) or the ability to get money.

 

[Killion]

All that is understood, and I think the common knowledge that I referred to is that they've got no money.

I'm starting to think that may not be true.

The IA people literally have a get out of jail free card right now. Sell the franchise for a profit, settle all the debts associated with the Coyotes, and move on. They don't appear to be doing that with these recent moves. They're at a point now where there's really nowhere to go if the franchise isn't sold and the arena thing doesn't work out in Phoenix. Yet they're out there chasing the arena.

If the arena doesn't work out what do they do? Hope for Portland to come purchase the team and grind down on the price and dragging down franchise values for everyone else?

They're either putting together a package for Foley (he likely couldn't purchase an AHL team now with the way things are) or they're legitimately in this for the long haul. If they're in for the long haul they've got money we don't know about (like the money for the new arena) or the ability to get money.

All due respect to your belief in this now amp'd up charade with this acquisition of the AHL Falcons, so called solid pursuit of a new building but if you believe that in doing so they not only have money but arent going anywhere, in for the long haul then Id say your "belief system" has blinkered your perceptive capabilities... your buying these fictions of hockey rinks in the sky.... that purchasing an AHL club is some kinda big deal.... when the NHL sells the team to Foley? BAM! Inherits all the player contracts. Nice little farm club nearby in Tucson.

 

[Llama19]

...They're at a point now where there's really nowhere to go if the franchise isn't sold and the arena thing doesn't work out in Phoenix. Yet they're out there chasing the arena...

They're either putting together a package for Foley (he likely couldn't purchase an AHL team now with the way things are) or they're legitimately in this for the long haul...

I agree with the former...

 

[Llama19]

If you would like to watch 'live' the Phoenix Mayor's speech, use this link: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...enix-greg-stanton-state-of-the-city/83234602/

If that does not work, try this link: http://livestream.com/azcentral/events/5232522

 

[Mightygoose]

All that is understood, and I think the common knowledge that I referred to is that they've got no money.

I'm starting to think that may not be true.

The IA people literally have a get out of jail free card right now. Sell the franchise for a profit, settle all the debts associated with the Coyotes, and move on. They don't appear to be doing that with these recent moves. They're at a point now where there's really nowhere to go if the franchise isn't sold and the arena thing doesn't work out in Phoenix. Yet they're out there chasing the arena.

If the arena doesn't work out what do they do? Hope for Portland to come purchase the team and grind down on the price and dragging down franchise values for everyone else?

They're either putting together a package for Foley (he likely couldn't purchase an AHL team now with the way things are) or they're legitimately in this for the long haul. If they're in for the long haul they've got money we don't know about (like the money for the new arena) or the ability to get money.

There's still that fine line between having the funds to buy a minor league franchise and having enough to properly run one at the major league level, never mind making a significant contribution to an new arena.

I'm still not convinced that buying an AHL team to move it to Tucson is related to their long term future, so it comes down to if they're able to close a deal with a new arena in the valley. Maybe Mr. Stanton's presser today will shed some light, maybe not. These next 2-3 weeks is really crucial that they get the job done. Otherwise, the fate is very much open ended.

Saying, that I think the lynchpin is still what Glendale does with AEG.

 

[Killion]

Saying, that I think the lynchpin is still what Glendale does with AEG.

... yeah.. this bears watching. why a deal hasnt been signed yet I find very curious. it sure as Hell didnt take Glendale this long to hear, approve & deposit $25M into the NHL's bank account nor to approve a $250M AM Contract with IA.

 

[BattleBorn]

All due respect to your belief in this now amp'd up charade with this acquisition of the AHL Falcons, so called solid pursuit of a new building but if you believe that in doing so they not only have money but arent going anywhere, in for the long haul then Id say your "belief system" has blinkered your perceptive capabilities... your buying these fictions of hockey rinks in the sky.... that purchasing an AHL club is some kinda big deal.... when the NHL sells the team to Foley? BAM! Inherits all the player contracts. Nice little farm club nearby in Tucson.

I completely agree. This all packages up for Foley very nicely.

On the other hand, this has all got to come to a head within weeks, we're in the later part of April now. With the Phoenix announcement later on today and the purchase of Springfield it doesn't really seem like an effort you make just to save face for 28 days.

If they miss this Vegas train, they're in Phoenix for the long term or until the next group of cities with new arenas pops up and that's a huge risk to take if you're got no dough.

I've been pitching this story to a lot of people in the media (well, two people in the media) because I want to see the reaction to a Phoenix-Vegas move right now in today's atmosphere. I can't get anyone to touch it with a 10 foot pole. I'm starting to think we may be the crazy ones because we're all so deep into the hole.

Surely someone has to have picked up on this story if it was really a story. You could get the jump on a pretty decent relocation story week prior to it happening and nobody is biting. The press around the Carolina thing is a million times more intense than this Phoenix thing has been since the Post story last year.

 

[BattleBorn]

There's still that fine line between having the funds to buy a minor league franchise and having enough to properly run one at the major league level, never mind making a significant contribution to an new arena.

I'm still not convinced that buying an AHL team to move it to Tucson is related to their long term future, so it comes down to if they're able to close a deal with a new arena in the valley. Maybe Mr. Stanton's presser today will shed some light, maybe not. These next 2-3 weeks is really crucial that they get the job done. Otherwise, the fate is very much open ended.

Saying, that I think the lynchpin is still what Glendale does with AEG.

Completely agree. If you're a businessperson with a monetary interest in this whole thing and you have a pretty good idea that it's not going to work out and you know that everything has been a charade, do you jump out now or stay in and hope for the best?

It's not like this is one crazy dude chasing a dream, they've got like 85 owners and there's got to be a few decent minds in there that know that taking the guaranteed money now is a much more intelligent move than sticking with the plan and hoping for the best.

 

[Mightygoose]

Completely agree. If you're a businessperson with a monetary interest in this whole thing and you have a pretty good idea that it's not going to work out and you know that everything has been a charade, do you jump out now or stay in and hope for the best?

It's not like this is one crazy dude chasing a dream, they've got like 85 owners and there's got to be a few decent minds in there that know that taking the guaranteed money now is a much more intelligent move than sticking with the plan and hoping for the best.

For sure, lots of players in this playground here and certain many have a better head on their shoulders than what Mr. LeBlanc shows.

I think right now, there's no real move they can make until Glendale formally moves forward with AEG. Still one year on the lease and it wouldn't surprise me if the city approves AEG, Glendale can play the blindsided card. Not enough time to finish an arena deal with an interim home 'Glendale doesn't want us', then it comes loose at seams.

But of course I could be mistaken and the arena announcement with financing in place is made this month or early next month and I'll be a covert of IA

 

[Llama19]

 

[mesamonster]

Completely agree. If you're a businessperson with a monetary interest in this whole thing and you have a pretty good idea that it's not going to work out and you know that everything has been a charade, do you jump out now or stay in and hope for the best?

It's not like this is one crazy dude chasing a dream, they've got like 85 owners and there's got to be a few decent minds in there that know that taking the guaranteed money now is a much more intelligent move than sticking with the plan and hoping for the best.

BB, i couldn`t agree with you more. The idea that relocation could occur next year (17-18) does not make sense. The BOG would like their $500MM if they have to wait a year. Why in the world would you risk the easy out in LV this year for the hope of desert treasure 5years from now? As for the business acumen of IA? Just maybe there is none and they are committing the unthinkable, crossing their fingers and hoping all works in the desert? I still believe they are going to LV this year, the only scenario that makes any sense. As for the media? Don't waste your time worrying about them, they are clueless, always have been always will be.

 

[Mightygoose]

... yeah.. this bears watching. why a deal hasnt been signed yet I find very curious. it sure as Hell didnt take Glendale this long to hear, approve & deposit $25M into the NHL's bank account nor to approve a $250M AM Contract with IA.

Agreed, if they don't approve them by the next scheduled meeting on April 26, I'll start to wonder what is hold up here.

Very true they approved the egg management fees and insurance policies when called upon.

Then again, I don't think AEG is negotiating with a loaded gun pointing at the city so people can use a little a judgment here before moving ahead.

 

[GJB]

Will they change their name back to the Phoenix Coyotes then?

 

[Llama19]

Here comes the professional sports comments from the Mayor...

He wants to have the Suns and Mercury and the Coyotes!

Surprised?

And, he promised he will not raise taxes (he has just three years left in office) and will use existing taxes that are already in place...

And, with that, the speech ends...

 

[Llama19]

 

[Mightygoose]

Not sure if the audio is any different, but from the state of city address

http://www.azfamily.com/story/31764570/mayor-greg-stantons-state-of-the-city-address

We have made difficult decisions, and there are more on the horizon, including the future of professional sports in downtown Phoenix.

I grew up in Phoenix in the '70s and '80s, which is to say I grew up a Suns fan. And throughout the years, the franchise has been a partner to the city, working with us to revitalize downtown.

The team has told me that in the near future, it will begin to look for a new home, it is essential we keep our team downtown.

Just like the current arena, it will take a public-private partnership. And the obligation to act responsibly with those public dollars is one I take seriously.

Moving forward, we must act with two governing principles. First, a new arena must not only keep the activities we have in place, but bring in new events and new people downtown. With that principle in mind, I will do everything I can to pursue a course that makes a new facility home to the Suns, Mercury and the Coyotes. Building two new professional arenas in our region simply doesn’t make sense. And, the second principle, I will absolutely not raise taxes for a new arena – any plan for a new venue must only use the existing sports facilities fund.

A part of an overall laundry list.

Classic politician playing both sides of the issue.

 

[Llama19]

 

[Llama19]