Phoenix CXI: Awaiting CoG arena manager decision [UPD: AEG new Arena Manager?]

[GuelphStormer]

Doesn't preclude another city or entity won't come up with a plan now does it?

All the more reason not to continue to keep assuming things based upon personal biases and/or media reports.

you cannot seriously be suggesting that because Glendale finally came to its senses, some other municipality will suddenly lose its mind.

 

[Llama19]

you cannot seriously be suggesting that because Glendale finally came to its senses, some other municipality will suddenly lose its mind.

Remember, you are discussing Arizona...

The heat does funny things to people...

However, I agree that with LeBluster's(tm) track record,
it seems a bit of a stretch that a municipality will lose their mind and
welcome LeBluster(tm) with open arms and wallets...

 

[cbcwpg]

you cannot seriously be suggesting that because Glendale finally came to its senses, some other municipality will suddenly lose its mind.

Remember, you are discussing Arizona...

The heat does funny things to people...

However, I agree that with LeBluster's(tm) track record,
it seems a bit of a stretch that a municipality will lose their mind and
welcome LeBluster(tm) with open arms and wallets...

Don't count that out. If it wasn't for municipalities losing their minds , half the teams in all the sports wouldn't exist IMO. Cities trying to "one up" each other has been going on forever. Cities agreeing to spend millions on stadiums when there is absolutely no way to ever recoup that money, has been going on forever. It's always been about one city using a sports team to say they are better than the city that doesn't have one.

All it takes is some politician somewhere who thinks he can't possibly make the same mistakes as others have done, and then the ball starts rolling.

First they start talking, then emotions get in the way, then a check or two for a small sum gets written, then things go over budget, then more checks get written because we are already in for a penny might as well be in for a pound, then something gets built and a team shows up, and then a few years later the team claims they are losing money so they ask the city to give them more or they will leave, and on and on and on... tell me if this sounds familiar... and it's not just Glendale.. it's happening all over.

Give a city a chance to land a professional sports team and watch how quickly common sense gets throw out the window.

 

[cheswick]

Don't count that out. If it wasn't for municipalities losing their minds , half the teams in all the sports wouldn't exist IMO. Cities trying to "one up" each other has been going on forever. Cities agreeing to spend millions on stadiums when there is absolutely no way to ever recoup that money, has been going on forever. It's always been about one city using a sports team to say they are better than the city that doesn't have one.

All it takes is some politician somewhere who thinks he can't possibly make the same mistakes as others have done, and then the ball starts rolling.

First they start talking, then emotions get in the way, then a check or two for a small sum gets written, then things go over budget, then more checks get written because we are already in for a penny might as well be in for a pound, then something gets built and a team shows up, and then a few years later the team claims they are losing money so they ask the city to give them more or they will leave, and on and on and on... tell me if this sounds familiar... and it's not just Glendale.. it's happening all over.

Give a city a chance to land a professional sports team and watch how quickly common sense gets throw out the window.

I agree that there's some truth to that. I somewhat disagree in the sense that its just nonsensical to spend money on something that you won't see a financial benefit from. Governments spend money on all sorts of things that bring intangible benefits to its citizens. Street scaping/public art installations, public parks, etc. These don't bring in more money but increase the quality of life. A new arena to lure a pro sports team is a similar venture. Having the ability to attend concerts and sports event sin the city improves the quality of life for its citizens. Of course the difference is these are run by for profit companies, which is what makes it unacceptable for some people. But as you say, "if we don't build them the arena, someone, somewhere will and they'll get the team instead".

 

[Llama19]

Don't count that out. If it wasn't for municipalities losing their minds , half the teams in all the sports wouldn't exist IMO. Cities trying to "one up" each other has been going on forever. Cities agreeing to spend millions on stadiums when there is absolutely no way to ever recoup that money, has been going on forever. It's always been about one city using a sports team to say they are better than the city that doesn't have one.

All it takes is some politician somewhere who thinks he can't possibly make the same mistakes as others have done, and then the ball starts rolling.

First they start talking, then emotions get in the way, then a check or two for a small sum gets written, then things go over budget, then more checks get written because we are already in for a penny might as well be in for a pound, then something gets built and a team shows up, and then a few years later the team claims they are losing money so they ask the city to give them more or they will leave, and on and on and on... tell me if this sounds familiar... and it's not just Glendale.. it's happening all over.

Give a city a chance to land a professional sports team and watch how quickly common sense gets throw out the window.

Well, Phoenix Councilmember Nowakowski is endorsing LeBluster(tm)...

But, he had problems with land deals before...

 

[CasualFan]

At the beginning of December, IA was in “very progressed†talks about a new arena. Now they’re “progressing in a positive and accelerated manner� Wow, that sounds great. Maybe next they will be very super accelerated and progressed? Meanwhile, nobody but Tony seems to be aware of this and there also does not appear to be a single public record evidencing any serious discussions with Phoenix, Tempe, or ASU. But I’m sure that’s just because administrators at those public entities would all be willing to illegally hide that stuff because there is just no way that LeBlanc is making it up as he goes. His track record for honesty and plain dealing makes that pretty much impossible.

Oh and how about that Moody’s report? Glendale is benefitting from positive economic trends, particularly for excise taxes? That doesn’t sound right. After the council voted to void the lease, nobody was going to do business with Glendale and the whole city was going to collapse. Hmm, I guess not. That is so surprising because the geniuses promoting that narrative all seemed so well informed…

 

[powerstuck]

you cannot seriously be suggesting that because Glendale finally came to its senses, some other municipality will suddenly lose its mind.

Didn't Sunrise just do that a few months ago with Panthers ?

That being imitate the Glendale/Coyotes deal that in the end, is on its last few months if not weeks.

 

[cbcwpg]

Well, Phoenix Councilmember Nowakowski is endorsing LeBluster(tm)...

But, he had problems with land deals before...

Told you... There is one in every city.

He didn't say how much cash he was willing to send the Coyotes' way. But as long as the city, elected leaders, businesses, and residents all work together to set priorities, solve problems and get things done..... who needs to talk about where the money comes from and who pays LeBlanc to play.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Didn't Sunrise just do that a few months ago with Panthers ?

That being imitate the Glendale/Coyotes deal that in the end, is on its last few months if not weeks.

sure, and so did Edmonton ...

but the Oilers and even the Panthers are not the Coyotes. my point is that it is sheer goofiness to think that any local municipality will seriously consider entering into a relationship with these sadsacks and spend upwards of another quarter to half billion dollars on a new arena when its plainly obvious that this is a very troubled franchise surviving only because of various subsidies and handouts from others with zero capacity to contribute to the construction and maintenance costs of that new facility.

CF is right, there is no evidence to indicate that anyone is in super accelerated and progressed talks with the clowns ... because everyone knows it would be fiscal suicide to do so.

this coyote is a duck. a lame duck.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

CF is right, there is no evidence to indicate that anyone is in super accelerated and progressed talks with the clowns ... because everyone knows it would be fiscal suicide to do so.

this coyote is a duck. a lame duck.

...except there's just as much proof of a sale agreement to Foley as there is proof of "super accelerated and progressed talks" with Phoenix, Scottsdale, or the Gila River folks.

In other words, we know nothing concrete either way, so for now we're all raining down on one side or the other depending on our own biases.

I, for one, wouldn't trust LeBlanc if he told me the sky was blue, but I will say that having lived in Arizona most of my life I know that Glendale is not the only city in the metro area with leaders stupid enough to throw subsidies at a sports team. This state in general is an enormous political mess, arbitrated by morons and borderline criminals, so I'm withholding my assumptions until harder evidence comes to light.

 

[Glacial]

At the beginning of December, IA was in “very progressed†talks about a new arena. Now they’re “progressing in a positive and accelerated manner� Wow, that sounds great. Maybe next they will be very super accelerated and progressed? Meanwhile, nobody but Tony seems to be aware of this and there also does not appear to be a single public record evidencing any serious discussions with Phoenix, Tempe, or ASU. But I’m sure that’s just because administrators at those public entities would all be willing to illegally hide that stuff because there is just no way that LeBlanc is making it up as he goes. His track record for honesty and plain dealing makes that pretty much impossible.

Oh and how about that Moody’s report? Glendale is benefitting from positive economic trends, particularly for excise taxes? That doesn’t sound right. After the council voted to void the lease, nobody was going to do business with Glendale and the whole city was going to collapse. Hmm, I guess not. That is so surprising because the geniuses promoting that narrative all seemed so well informed…

Sounds like it's going backwards. Progressing in a positive & accelerated manner sounds less far along than very progressed. What next- "Talks are progressing"?

 

[CasualFan]

...except there's just as much proof of a sale agreement to Foley as there is proof of "super accelerated and progressed talks" with Phoenix, Scottsdale, or the Gila River folks.

In other words, we know nothing concrete either way, so for now we're all raining down on one side or the other depending on our own biases.

I, for one, wouldn't trust LeBlanc if he told me the sky was blue, but I will say that having lived in Arizona most of my life I know that Glendale is not the only city in the metro area with leaders stupid enough to throw subsidies at a sports team. This state in general is an enormous political mess, arbitrated by morons and borderline criminals, so I'm withholding my assumptions until harder evidence comes to light.

But here's the thing: LeBlanc is out doing press about a mythical arena. He's posturing as if things are very progressed and accelerated and whatever yet there's no corroboration anywhere. Unless he's working with a tribe, there should be some record of these discussions (even if the public entity determined they would not release it at this time).

As for Vegas, I suggested that the Coyotes were going to relo after they got evicted from the arena in July 2015. I got mocked because the NHL wasn't going to leave $500MM in expansion fees on the table and blah blah blah. Somehow between then and now, Vegas became conventional wisdom. Not sure how that happened but regardless there wouldn't be any publicly available documents on a Foley sale to begin with; whereas IAs "public partner" very progressed discussions should have generated at least a calendar entry or two. To me, there's a pretty big difference between BOH speculation about a private sale and CEO presser about a public process. YMMV

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Somehow between then and now, Vegas became conventional wisdom.

Well, let's just say that, for all of the good information BoH has been able to dig up, I don't put much stock into its "conventional wisdom."

My point is that it's all speculation at this point - the "Foley sale" theory and the "accelerated process" - so while I'll grant that there are different standards of evidence for each situation, the fact of the matter is we don't have any facts to advance either one beyond the hypothetical yet.

 

[Llama19]

Not that I expected a different answer...

To quote:

"Good Morning,

The City does not release sealed bids (RFP responses) for public inspection until after the contract is awarded.

Regards,

Darcie McCracken
Deputy City Clerk, City of Glendale, AZ"

 

[Killion]

.... Unless he's working with a tribe...

Bingo. Only thing that makes sense.... when it comes to North American Tribes'..... Arizona.... a very strange country of multiplicity.

Big question... will the NHL accept it or... are they complicit.... and if so... how.. why?... System of a down.

If remotely accurate... every Lawyer in the U.. S... of A... just got a Wake-Up call..

 

[TheLegend]

Well, let's just say that, for all of the good information BoH has been able to dig up, I don't put much stock into its "conventional wisdom."

My point is that it's all speculation at this point - the "Foley sale" theory and the "accelerated process" - so while I'll grant that there are different standards of evidence for each situation, the fact of the matter is we don't have any facts to advance either one beyond the hypothetical yet.

I prefer to refer it as "educated guess". Which is achieved many times by ignoring anything and everything that might not fit the preferred conclusion.

To me... the recent interview with LeBlanc really doesn't amount to squat since there is no definitive action taking place.

 

[Killion]

I prefer to refer it as "educated guess". Which is achieved more often by ignoring anything and everything that might not fit the conclusion.

... you blame people for using their God given deductive reasoning powers do you? .... might as well cancel out every chat board on the net... eliminate free speech.... surprised at this "new" attitude TL... youve lived, dealt with worse.

 

[TheLegend]

... you blame people for using their God given deductive reasoning powers do you? .... might as well cancel out every chat board on the net... eliminate free speech.

You misread me.... I merely made an observation.

As much as people are perfectly free to express a conclusion.... they also have the right to be wrong, K. You and I know I've been there more than once.

 

[Killion]

You misread me.... I merely made an observation.

As much as people are perfectly free to express a conclusion.... they also have the right to be wrong, K.

Nope... dont think I "misread you" TL... people gunna opine... based on their own lifes experiences, conjecture... thats why places like this exist... hit counts driving revenues.. the more intelligent... the higher/better the ratings... and this... this my friend is the best of the best. Moderated by the likes of me. An attack on this Memberships opinions?.... I take that personally.... We have bright minds here... wealth of experiences from a wide range of individuals from a wide range of socio-geo & economic / professional bacxkgrounds. Americans. Canadians, Europeans & Russians. You attack the integrity, objectivity that I and the rest of the Moderators work so hard to insure, that we be inclusive rather than exclusive, objective... well, thats a problem.... You need to take that up with the Powers that Be... Ownership of this site yes?.... and that would be?...

ME.... screwed..... Man, you are so screwed... like the NIST 911 Report & George W... so..... shhhhhhhh... dont even bother.

 

[TheLegend]

Nope... dont think I "misread you" TL... people gunna opine... based on their own lifes experiences, conjecture... thats why places like this exist... hit counts driving revenues.. the more intelligent... the higher/better the ratings... and this... this my friend is the best of the best. Moderated by the likes of me. An attack on this Memberships opinions?.... I take that personally.... We have bright minds here... wealth of experiences from a wide range of individuals from a wide range of socio-geo & economic / professional bacxkgrounds. Americans. Canadians, Europeans & Russians. You attack the integrity, objectivity that I and the rest of the Moderators work so hard to insure, that we be inclusive rather than exclusive, objective... well, thats a problem.... You need to take that up with the Powers that Be... Ownership of this site yes?.... and that would be?...

ME.... screwed..... Man, you are so screwed... like the NIST 911 Report & George W... so..... shhhhhhhh... dont even bother.

Dangit.... now I'm not going to get any sleep tonight knowing their may be BoH black helicopters orbiting my house.

 

[JimAnchower]

Bingo. Only thing that makes sense.... when it comes to North American Tribes'..... Arizona.... a very strange country of multiplicity.

Big question... will the NHL accept it or... are they complicit.... and if so... how.. why?... System of a down.

If remotely accurate... every Lawyer in the U.. S... of A... just got a Wake-Up call..

LeBlanc didn't mention a tribe as a possible partner for an arena in his quote this week. Just Phoenix, Tempe, and ASU. Maybe they are and Salt River told them to keep it quiet.

 

[Llama19]

Bingo. Only thing that makes sense.... when it comes to North American Tribes'..... Arizona.... a very strange country of multiplicity.

Big question... will the NHL accept it or... are they complicit.... and if so... how.. why?... System of a down.

If remotely accurate... every Lawyer in the U.. S... of A... just got a Wake-Up call..

LeBlanc didn't mention a tribe as a possible partner for an arena in his quote this week. Just Phoenix, Tempe, and ASU. Maybe they are and Salt River told them to keep it quiet.

So, the NHL, instead of pitting city-against-city, will now venture into pitting city-against-tribe
where a sovereign nation trumps the NHL's legal team bringing any issues to the Federal level?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

.... might as well cancel out every chat board on the net...

Can we actually do that? Please?

I've been on chat boards and message forums since the early 80s... a BBSer from the old school... moderated USENET subforums back in the day... only reason I stick around on this one is because when people decide to be objective about things, the dialogue can really get interesting. But I'd say about 95% of the forums and comment sections on the Internet these days are worse than useless.

LeBlanc didn't mention a tribe as a possible partner for an arena in his quote this week. Just Phoenix, Tempe, and ASU. Maybe they are and Salt River told them to keep it quiet.

Not surprised he's treading lightly on it in the press, to be honest, but I think the reservation possibility is still the most likely direction at this point.

 

[JimAnchower]

So, the NHL, instead of pitting city-against-city, will now venture into pitting city-against-tribe
where a sovereign nation trumps the NHL's legal team bringing any issues to the Federal level?

There are professional teams that use facilities on tribal lands right now. The Connecticut Sun of the WNBA play at the Mohegan Sun Arena. The Rockies and Diamondbacks both have their spring training facility at Salt River. Wouldn't a lot of these issues already be tackled with those agreements?

 

[Llama19]

There are professional teams that use facilities on tribal lands right now. The Connecticut Sun of the WNBA play at the Mohegan Sun Arena. The Rockies and Diamondbacks both have their spring training facility at Salt River. Wouldn't a lot of these issues already be tackled with those agreements?

A spring training facility that is about one-fifth the size (11,000) of a standard major league facility, and the arena's basketball capacity is only 9,518...

Not exactly the same comparison...

These are hardly something, even for the Talking Stick tribe, that would have them suddenly
build a major league facility of the 17,000+ range for the NHL's requirement and for LeBluster's(tm) hockey team...