Phoenix CV: CoG went full-on haboob, man. Never go full-on haboob.

[Whileee]

A few points to at least consider, K. You know marketing, promotion and advertising. If you were running the state's outreach effort to attract more visitors to the Valley, wouldn't you be laser-focused on marketing to the state's top-grossing international market? More than 700,000 Canadians visit AZ each year and spend >$900m when they're here. Wouldn't failing to put on a full-court press to draw even more of them here get you fired?



http://www.experiencescottsdale.com/scottsdales-canadian-connections-cool-deals/

As someone who lives here I don't care why Canadians (or any snowbirds) winter here. Whether it's the weather, Cardinals, Suns, Coyotes, Spring Training, golf, or family vacation, I just want them to visit, enjoy what we have to offer, and go home and tell their friends what a great time they had.

And, of course, an even a bigger reason to go after Canadians is that you all can get cheap airline tickets and book bargain-priced hotels during our peak visitors season, plus get a ticket to a Coyotes game for < the price of a hockey ticket in Canada. (Or so I've been told many times ).

It's not a bad idea to have a marketing strategy for different segments, but it needs to be part of an overarching plan. Color me "skeptical" that the remnants of the Ice Edge gang has a coherent and viable plan.... remember their "grassroots Canadian hockey strategy", which involved playing 5 games in either Saskatoon or Halifax.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/coyotes-bid-includes-canada-games/article1200617/

"Canada is obviously a tremendous hockey market, yet there are currently 6,000 kilometres of Canadian soil that have no exposure to the NHL in their home market," said Daryl Jones, an Ice Edge partner. "Our plan from the outset was to work with a Canadian city that doesn't have NHL territorial rights issues, and also one that wouldn't be considered a threat to the fans in Phoenix."

"It's a great opportunity to bring regular season NHL hockey to a Canadian city that otherwise would never have the opportunity. It is a great way to ensure the team stays in Phoenix for the long run, but partners with a Canadian city in the process."

At the time, Ice Edge was also touting partnership with a local investor that was "worth billions". *sigh*

 

[RR]

If I was running that, yes, absolutely. If I was running the Arizona Coyotes then no, it would be a very small, minute component of my focus.

That surprises me. Canada's a hockey-crazy country. If 700,000 folks from a hockey-crazy country are going to be in the state for up to six months, during the NHL season, would that really be a "very small, minute component" of your focus? Makes no sense to me. It has to be a big part of the overall marketing plan.

 

[Whileee]

If I was running that, yes, absolutely. If I was running the Arizona Coyotes then no, it would be a very small, minute component of my focus.

Agreed, 700K visiting anywhere from a week to 6 months vs. 4.5 million living year around.

Mr. Leblanc, do you know where the fish are?

Bingo... maybe if they did some market research they would discover that a large majority of the Canadian visitors to Arizona that are interested in going to hockey games already know about the cheap tickets to watch the Coyotes.

 

[Whileee]

That surprises me. Canada's a hockey-crazy country. If 700,000 folks from a hockey-crazy country are going to be in the state for up to six months, during the NHL season, would that really be a "very small, minute component" of your focus? Makes no sense to me. It has to be a big part of the overall marketing plan.

The 700,000 that go to the desert during hockey season might not be the most ardent "hockey-crazy" Canadians, right?

The "hockey-crazy" Canadians that do visit Arizona probably already know about the Coyotes and the cheap tickets to watch them, don't you think?

 

[goyotes]

If I was running that, yes, absolutely. If I was running the Arizona Coyotes then no, it would be a very small, minute component of my focus.

I will not write 5 pages on the history of the Coyotes, who purely because there was no other NHL ready location to land in, found their way down to Phoenix after the good people of Winnipeg lost their team (only to find out the NHL ready arena had 3,500 seats from which you could only see one goal - bit of a problem from the beginning).

The Coyotes came to Arizona as the lost gypsy tribe of the NHL when things didn't work out with Jets.1. No ownership group has ever really tried to market the team like the other three professional sports do in Arizona. When Ellman got the team from Burke, he had no interest in the team other than as a vehicle for a real estate empire he wanted to create, first in Scottsdale, and then because of his greed he couldn't get his deal there, eventually with the rubes in Glendale who wanted to go big time and become the west side's answer to Scottsdale as an entertainment mecca.

Moyes got bamboozelled in to taking the team. He was an owner who admitted he would have a hard time spelling puck, much less knowing anything about hockey. His stroke of genius was to hire Gretz, who promptly ran the team into the ground on the ice because he was more interested in visiting his wine businesses, etc., than actually coaching.

Series of misfits kick tires while the NHL owns the team. All the while the team's brand is tarnished. From a PR standpoint, the Coyotes and the NHL look like clowns to joe citizen in Arizona. Amazingly, hockey was growing as a sport in Arizona, but the Coyotes were not growing as a team to be followed. Only hard core fans attend games on a regular basis. Casual fans gave up 5 years ago. Perhaps a string of successes and a couple Stanley Cup runs would convert the presently disinterested masses, but that is unlikely to happen.

The problem with marketing the NHL and the Coyotes, aside from the tremendous brand damage the organization has suffered and continues to suffer, is that all prior owners either 1) had no interest in marketing because they were looking to get out, 2) didn't care about the hockey aspect of their ownership, 3) had no prior sports marketing background and didn't hire the right people, or 4) don't understand the Arizona market and its fans, and want to sell the team like it is in Canada.

I support hockey in non-traditional markets because I believe the sport is the greatest sport in North America. I believe hockey should thrive in places without natural ice because the sport is not limited to its traditions. I respect the traditions as I come from an original six market, but I think the sport doesn't need to restrict itself to only places where kids can skate on ponds in the winter. But hockey needs to be marketed differently in places like Texas, Florida, Carolina and Arizona. Market the speed, the pace, the physicality, the excitement that is unmatched by football and baseball. Don't market the tradition and try and convert Ranger fans to Panther fans, or Red Wing fans to Coyote fans.

Coyotes marketing is an oxymoron. Please excuse the rant.

 

[Killion]

That surprises me. Canada's a hockey-crazy country. If 700,000 folks from a hockey-crazy country are going to be in the state for up to six months, during the NHL season, would that really be a "very small, minute component" of your focus? Makes no sense to me. It has to be a big part of the overall marketing plan.

... as you yourself have noted in the past in posting former Kings owner Jack Kent Cooke's famous line "Over 600,000 Canadians in LA and no one told me none of them like hockey. Left Canada to get away from it".... Ha?..... Whatre we talkin about, Canadians in Arizona.... my experience being the only Canadians I met down there were either Honeymooners, Newlyweds or the Nearlydead. Old people RR. Drive from Scottsdale to Glendale? Prolly kill em.
So no, Id be focusing all of my attention on the local living breathing full time residents of the Valley. Not transients.

 

[MNNumbers]

Even though the city council 'vacated' all workshops and meetings for the month of July,
a 'special workshop' has just been posted for Monday, July 13, where
the council will immediately go into Executive Session on 'legal' matters...

Source: https://glendale-az.legistar.com/Me...8-47D7-9E8D-0F5EEF6B5617&Options=info&Search=

And everyone thought it was going to be a slow news day...

Llama, What do you mean that the city had 'vacated' all council meetings for July?

Do you mean that there were none scheduled at all, and then, today, suddenly, this pops up for next Monday?

 

[Killion]

Llama, What do you mean that the city had 'vacated' all council meetings for July?

Do you mean that there were none scheduled at all, and then, today, suddenly, this pops up for next Monday?

not Llama obviously but yes, yes thats correct. called back from vacation. somethings brewing MNN.

 

[MNNumbers]

not Llama obviously but yes, yes thats correct. called back from vacation. somethings brewing MNN.

I have suspected this. I did not want it to get lost in all the discussion about IA and its marketing skill.

The most interesting thing, the thing that brought this back to the front burner, is the COG action. It appears they are acting again.

Negotiations with IA ongoing? Finished? Deposition strategy? This is great!!!

 

[TheLegend]

Llama, What do you mean that the city had 'vacated' all council meetings for July?

Do you mean that there were none scheduled at all, and then, today, suddenly, this pops up for next Monday?

In case some people didn't know...

Glendale is facing another $200M lawsuit stemming from them disputing a contract they previously agreed on.

http://www.glendalestar.com/news/article_9a623c0c-edeb-11e4-a9b7-532f474f0df3.html

And unlike the Coyotes so far.... they've already lost a round.

http://www.glendalestar.com/news/article_0a789744-1f4b-11e5-8711-ff873ae43326.html

 

[Whileee]

Coyotes marketing is an oxymoron. Please excuse the rant.

Good rant...

If the NHL was more serious and/or competent they would have kicked LeBlanc and the Ice Idiots to the curb 5 years ago, given the franchise to Reinsdorf for a penny, arranged for $15 million a year in "management fees" or whatever from Glendale, and let him have a go at it. Thinking it will work with a bunch of callow Canadian wannabes surviving on fumes for capital was a pipe dream. That's why I've been suspicious that this current deal with the 5-year out clause never looked like anything more than a temporary solution. A fake sale to a fake group with some other end-game in mind. Then, Glendale had the audacity to figure out this was a dead-end deal and short-circuited everything at a very inconvenient time for the NHL and the Ice Clowns.

 

[TheLegend]

Good rant...

If the NHL was more serious and/or competent they would have kicked LeBlanc and the Ice Idiots to the curb 5 years ago, given the franchise to Reinsdorf for a penny, arranged for $15 million a year in "management fees" or whatever from Glendale, and let him have a go at it. Thinking it will work with a bunch of callow Canadian wannabes surviving on fumes for capital was a pipe dream. That's why I've been suspicious that this current deal with the 5-year out clause never looked like anything more than a temporary solution. A fake sale to a fake group with some other end-game in mind. Then, Glendale had the audacity to figure out this was a dead-end deal and short-circuited everything at a very inconvenient time for the NHL and the Ice Clowns.

How soon people forget.

They tried getting the franchise to Reinsdorf..... but the little guy who started RIM kinda derailed that.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Just signed John Scott. Gonna market fighting now?

 

[BattleBorn]

Just signed John Scott. Gonna market fighting now?

Got to do something to draw a crowd.

 

[Killion]

Coyotes marketing is an oxymoron. Please excuse the rant.

Oh no worries goyotes, and I totally agree. That franchise has never had decent ownership or management in terms of marketing & promotion. Brand badly damaged, yes. Resurrection was possible at several junctures, myself & several others in a minority arguing for such but honestly, since 2013, enter IA, my optimism evaporated like a glass of water on the desert floor in July. Im absolutely disgusted with the NHL. This all could have been avoided years ago had they merely invested in the market, worked with ownership, that team thriving. Blew it. Big time.

 

[Confucius]

... as you yourself have noted in the past in posting former Kings owner Jack Kent Cooke's famous line "Over 600,000 Canadians in LA and no one told me none of them like hockey. Left Canada to get away from it".... Ha?..... Whatre we talkin about, Canadians in Arizona.... my experience being the only Canadians I met down there were either Honeymooners, Newlyweds or the Nearlydead. Old people RR. Drive from Scottsdale to Glendale? Prolly kill em.
So no, Id be focusing all of my attention on the local living breathing full time residents of the Valley. Not transients.

Most people I knew of who wintered in Arizona did so for respitory or arthritic reasons. They went on the cheap as well, lived in trailers or some ramshackle place out in the desert. Even 10 bucks would be a big expense.

 

[Whileee]

How soon people forget.

They tried getting the franchise to Reinsdorf..... but the little guy who started RIM kinda derailed that.

Then the NHL won the bankruptcy auction that kicked Balsillie to the curb, and could have handed the keys over to Reinsdorf. Right?

 

[Whileee]

Just signed John Scott. Gonna market fighting now?

I preferred @Biznasty, to be honest. Dude has a personality...

 

[Jeffrey93]

How soon people forget.

They tried getting the franchise to Reinsdorf..... but the little guy who started RIM kinda derailed that.

Says the league.

Once the dust settled....had Reinsdorf thought better of the idea? They were scrambling for anyone that could purchase this team, and these fine men were the best they could come up with. Pretty telling if you ask me.

 

[berklon]

Then the NHL won the bankruptcy auction that kicked Balsillie to the curb, and could have handed the keys over to Reinsdorf. Right?

Of course not... it's like the NHL stated - they were seconds away from fixing the Coyotes situation (even though Bettman stated there weren't any problems in the first place), but then Big Bad Balsillie came in and ruined everything... forever... he salted the earth so it could never ever be fixed again. Plus I think he's also responsible for global warming and the JFK assassination.

 

[Llama19]

like what?

preaching to the converted is useless. they need to get and keep the attention of folks who have never heard of hockey. i wasnt joking when i said leblanc should have had the players out carrying groceries to people's car for them.

activities that grow the game these past few years in phoenix have obviously been unproductive as far as the survival of the franchise matters. sure, its nice but big deal that you play hockey in high schools now. leblanc has utterly failed to gain any sort of foothold in getting more paid customers.

leblanc failed to understand that he needed to hit the ground running. he utterly failed to do that.

As I posted previously, Anthony did have a 75 page plan when he spoke before the council...

My transcript:

Councilmember Chavira: Mr. LeBlanc, do you have a very 'aggressive' marketing plan?

LeBlanc: My background is in sales and marketing. Yes, we have spent the lion share of our time on the business side of the Phoenix Coyotes. The hockey side is ticking along nicely. We are concerned about the business side (i.e., a 75 page plan) and the revenue streams we plan on enhancing.

 

[Fugu]

IceArizona's annual arena rent of $125,000 has been posted...

Source: http://www.glendaleaz.com/FollowYou...ndAccountingGrpID=X01&CatID=X4046&FundID=1000

Even though the city council 'vacated' all workshops and meetings for the month of July,
a 'special workshop' has just been posted for Monday, July 13, where
the council will immediately go into Executive Session on 'legal' matters...

Source: https://glendale-az.legistar.com/Me...8-47D7-9E8D-0F5EEF6B5617&Options=info&Search=

And everyone thought it was going to be a slow news day...

Either settlement talk or deposition talk? There shouldn't be any other "new" issues.

I also thought rent was higher. Maybe I'll be wintering in Arizona soon....

Agreed, 700K visiting anywhere from a week to 6 months vs. 4.5 million living year around.

Mr. Leblanc, do you know where the fish are?

Noting that RR said 700K visitors to Arizona. Arizona is a big state, geographically speaking. What percentage go to Phoenix-- the other issues notwithstanding wrt marketing?

 

[Fugu]

Meh, I think the Vegas model is a little different in that there's already going to be a good number of other team's fans visiting here, and they've been coming here for years and decades. There also likely won't be a targeting of a specific fanbase.

Every pro game I've been to in football, baseball, hockey, that didn't involve a Chicago team was a result of me being in town when the home team happened to also be in town and it was just another activity to enjoy. I don't think I'm unusual in that aspect.

However, even if the Vegas plan involved luring the opposing team's fans into the arena, you've got to admit that Las Vegas' apparatus to lure those fans is significantly larger, better prepared, and more experienced at doing so than most every other team in the league now.

I really don't think the effort will be much other than a marquee on the Strip announcing that night's game and the availability of tickets to be quite honest. If some high roller/high level loyalty person happens to ask for suite tickets to the game in lieu of a $500 food/alcohol tab I'm sure the MGM group would be happy to oblige, but those folks would have likely been coming down anyways.

Yes, to the part in bold. Definitely.

I guess I'm not accustomed to thinking about sports teams as one would treat traveling acts, or as it's flipped in Vegas. The traditional model builds a local fan base and tries to get an emotional investment from fans. They become married to their team, and until death do they part-- or I guess if they move away, they divorce the old team over time and latch on to the new one.

This model just wants to put butts in the seats, and grabs somewhat indiscriminately from the circulating masses in the general vicinity. The transients looking for some form of entertainment. I have to wonder if it works, and if the home team will ever feel at home.

 

[GJB]

Just signed John Scott. Gonna market fighting now?

It's to get the good 'ole Canadian lumberjack crowd to come on down

 

[Fugu]

<snip>

I support hockey in non-traditional markets because I believe the sport is the greatest sport in North America. I believe hockey should thrive in places without natural ice because the sport is not limited to its traditions. I respect the traditions as I come from an original six market, but I think the sport doesn't need to restrict itself to only places where kids can skate on ponds in the winter. But hockey needs to be marketed differently in places like Texas, Florida, Carolina and Arizona. Market the speed, the pace, the physicality, the excitement that is unmatched by football and baseball. Don't market the tradition and try and convert Ranger fans to Panther fans, or Red Wing fans to Coyote fans.

Coyotes marketing is an oxymoron. Please excuse the rant.

I think this is spot on. Those of us who love the sport, regardless of how we became fans, can all agree that these aspects are what keep us as fans too.

How soon people forget.

They tried getting the franchise to Reinsdorf..... but the little guy who started RIM kinda derailed that.

Then the NHL won the bankruptcy auction that kicked Balsillie to the curb, and could have handed the keys over to Reinsdorf. Right?

Man, it's been so long. What was the reason JR backed away after the bankruptcy was settled? I seem to recall his bid was $75 MM and some support from COG, which they seemed willing to consider at the time. I thought there might have been some other legal or business consideration, but can't recall what off the top of my head.