Player Discussion Phillip Danault - You Guys Are Getting Paid? Edition

[abo9]

It's kind of weird to say with the recent history of crappy development in Montreal but Danault 110% over-achieved and his skills can't match with the salary he will be able to ask for based on stats and comparables...

Montreal already have Gallagher, Anderson, Toffoli, Drouin, Byron, Weber, Petry, Edmunson. Price as veterans signed up for the medium/long term. I don't see how Danault fits if his salary is $6M +, especially since he SHOULD move to the 3rd line soon if we ever want a competitive team.

 

[Mrb1p]

Without Danault and his ruinous 3.5 mil salary they would have given more cash to Aho? They would have traded for ROR? They would have outbid Winnipeg for Dubois? Domi, KK, Poehling would have magically become much better?

You live in a fantasy world.

The incentive would be there because they would absolutely have to. Bergevin failed to acquire a top 6 C and just said "Well Phils here so were going to be fine."

Without him he does not have that cushion.

 

[Mrb1p]

It's kind of weird to say with the recent history of crappy development in Montreal but Danault 110% over-achieved and his skills can't match with the salary he will be able to ask for based on stats and comparables...

Montreal already have Gallagher, Anderson, Toffoli, Drouin, Byron, Weber, Petry, Edmunson. Price as veterans signed up for the medium/long term. I don't see how Danault fits if his salary is $6M +, especially since he SHOULD move to the 3rd line soon if we ever want a competitive team.

Yes, and Danault is a beautiful example of development. It makes no sense that they can't follow this with all players.

 

[Not The One]

It's kind of weird to say with the recent history of crappy development in Montreal but Danault 110% over-achieved and his skills can't match with the salary he will be able to ask for based on stats and comparables...

Montreal already have Gallagher, Anderson, Toffoli, Drouin, Byron, Weber, Petry, Edmunson. Price as veterans signed up for the medium/long term. I don't see how Danault fits if his salary is $6M +, especially since he SHOULD move to the 3rd line soon if we ever want a competitive team.

So who do you replace him with, to save probably about 2-2.5 million?

If Poehling was used instead of Danault this year (replacing his EV and PP icetime), do you think the Habs would be in the position they are now?

 

[BLONG7]

The incentive would be there because they would absolutely have to. Bergevin failed to acquire a top 6 C and just said "Well Phils here so were going to be fine."

Without him he does not have that cushion.

Bergevin has made alot of assumptions...............and as we all know, a lot of them did not work out very well. After 9 years of assumptions that he has made, we still have to use the word hope, an awful lot....

 

[Sorinth]

So who do you replace him with, to save probably about 2-2.5 million?

If Poehling was used instead of Danault this year (replacing his EV and PP icetime), do you think the Habs would be in the position they are now?

In terms of ice time you wouldn't simply replace Danaults ice time one for one with another player it would get spread out.
Suzuki probably gets an addition 1m to bring him up to 19m
Kotkaniemi moves into the #2 C role and gains 2m to bring him up to 17m
Evans moves into the the #3 C role and gains 2.5m to bring him up to 14m
Which leaves whoever our 4th line C whether it's Poehling or someone else at 10m

 

[abo9]

So who do you replace him with, to save probably about 2-2.5 million?

If Poehling was used instead of Danault this year (replacing his EV and PP icetime), do you think the Habs would be in the position they are now?

You mean his PK icetime right? And why do you assume Poehling would take on all that TOI? It would probably end up being distributed amongst Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Suzuki and Evans.
And for what it's worth, I think they would be in a similar position (fighting for a playoff spot). Habs were 24th last year, 16th place overall this season, and I'd argue that the additions of Allen, Toffoli, Anderson were much more impactful than Danault in bringing the team there.

I'm also talking about next year, not this one. Suzuki has shown to be better than Danault, Kotkaniemi has a better offensive flair, and Evans is a solid 4th line C. Seems like Poehling has a good year in Laval, if he can pick up some of Danault's defensive responsibilities next season, I don't see why we should keep Danault.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

So who do you replace him with, to save probably about 2-2.5 million?

If Poehling was used instead of Danault this year (replacing his EV and PP icetime), do you think the Habs would be in the position they are now?

No.
No play-offs, no fun, more bashing, more negative about this team with young players losing confidence.

 

[Brownies]

I would let him walk ....

You guys have all seen to movie Moneyball right?

Remember when : He trades away the lone traditional first baseman, Carlos Peña, to force Howe to use Hatteberg, making similar deals so Howe has no choice but to play the team Beane and Brand have designed. Three weeks later, the Athletics are only four games behind first.

Well it's basically the same move. It's not a knock on Danault who's a great hockey player, good at what he does and is a legitimate best defensive D in the league and gives a hard time to all the top centers in the league whom he's been tasked to shut down daily.

The guy could make 5m here or somewhere else.

But by not having him and going with NS and KK for a full season youforce the coach to give more minutes to the rookies for growth and more ice time to play in all opportunities. If a rookie is struggling its too easy to revert to playing Danault in all situations because you knows hes at least solid defensively and wont hurt you........It would no doubt be a stepback next year for the team.

But if you look at it , we have 35m out of the lineup right now and are still hanging around in games. With our current young players (NS KK CC) + Anderson Toffoli and Gallagher , I dare say its a solid foundation for offense going forward... Trade the house vets while they're still worth something , or move them away for lateral better moves in the future and get a high draft picks because next year is 2022 is a MUCH better draft and the players will have been scouted better (Conor Bedard is a pipe dream but....)

Get rid of Price Weber Tatar Lekhonen Armia Drouin , that gives you a ton of money to reinvest in this lineup and fill other gaps.

Play the hell out of the kids (evans included) , move some new ones up (Poehling Ylonen Teasdale RHP I dont care who)

Tank + draft + get new core players with that sweet capspace $$$

Get that solid 1LD that moves the puck forward to help out Petry and Romanov on D

Get a solid LW (Ovie is a UFA ? lol Landeskog Huberdeau something legit or draft 1)

And move forward with the youth.....we might still get in the bubble like we are today , we'll have more entertaining games to watch and enthusiasm for the growth of our rookies and if we dont well have multiple high draft pick and opportunities in the next couple of years to make real damage, seems awfully better than status quo to me

PS: WE go with Joel Bouchard as head coach in this scenario lol

My opinion is that that like most sports movie, Moneyball is mostly a bunch of lies or hidden truths to make a better story (so, fine for a movie but take everything with a grain of salt, see The Many Problems With 'Moneyball' ). Don't even mention the movie Hurricane to me or I'll get way too angry . The GM job is to make the best decisions and built the strongest team possible. Bergevin (or the next GM) must decide on a max amount of dollar available for Danault and either make him fit within the budget or not, depending on his demands. However, trading him for the sole reason of forcing your coach to play the young guys is not good management (IMO).

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

You mean his PK icetime right? And why do you assume Poehling would take on all that TOI? It would probably end up being distributed amongst Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Suzuki and Evans.
And for what it's worth, I think they would be in a similar position (fighting for a playoff spot). Habs were 24th last year, 16th place overall this season, and I'd argue that the additions of Allen, Toffoli, Anderson were much more impactful than Danault in bringing the team there.

I'm also talking about next year, not this one. Suzuki has shown to be better than Danault, Kotkaniemi has a better offensive flair, and Evans is a solid 4th line C. Seems like Poehling has a good year in Laval, if he can pick up some of Danault's defensive responsibilities next season, I don't see why we should keep Danault.

This is too risky. Too much face offs lost, too much goals against us, too much chemistry lost with Gallagher. Danault is so underrated, it's unbeleivable what I read here, it's a shame.

Ask Matthews or McDavid or McKinnon how frustrating it is to face Danault?
Just watch the games and see by yourself the energy Danault is having playing good defence and the safe plays he makes 200 feet. So underrated and so usefull to the Habs.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

My opinion is that that like most sports movie, Moneyball is mostly a bunch of lies or hidden truths to make a better story (so, fine for a movie but take everything with a grain of salt, see The Many Problems With 'Moneyball' ). Don't even mention the movie Hurricane to me or I'll get way too angry . The GM job is to make the best decisions and built the strongest team possible. Bergevin (or the next GM) must decide on a max amount of dollar available for Danault and either make him fit within the budget or not, depending on his demands. However, trading him for the sole reason of forcing your coach to play the young guys is not good management (IMO).

Yes, Moneyball ... what can I say? Good movie, ... just a good movie.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

This is too risky. Too much face offs lost, too much goals against us, too much chemistry lost with Gallagher. Danault is so underrated, it's unbeleivable what I read here, it's a shame.

Ask Matthews or McDavid or McKinnon how frustrating it is to face Danault?
Just watch the games and see by yourself the energy Danault is having playing good defence and the safe plays he makes 200 feet. So underrated and so usefull to the Habs.

Very few here do not recognize Danault's defensive game; he's arguably the best shutdown C in the League when he's on...it's how much should our GM be willing to pay for having an elite #3C, which is where he would fit in on a contender...if Danault's game was even slightly better offensively, then this would be a different conversation, however he is lacking in offensive creativity & ability and that has to be taken into consideration when deciding how much that elite shutdown ability is worth to a team with 3 young centres also vying for icetime and a flat cap for the next couple of seasons...

 

[peate]

All I was thinking of is the timing of his goal, and the importance. A pulled goalie tying goal is worth at least three non-impact goals and several empty netters.

I'd keep him for his defensive game but not at any price, especially if there are other options.

 

[26Mats]

All I was thinking of is the timing of his goal, and the importance. A pulled goalie tying goal is worth at least three non-impact goals and several empty netters.

I'd keep him for his defensive game but not at any price, especially if there are other options.

That's the whole issue.

If you look at the other UFA centers, he's pretty much a consensus as the best UFA center about to hit the open market. And, there's no guarantee the ones lower down, that are worse offensively and defensively than Danault want to come here.

Stastny might be a good stop gap. But what are the odds he wants to come here? Will he sign a short enough deal to not make his next contract a huge risk. He's in Staal's age range.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

All I was thinking of is the timing of his goal, and the importance. A pulled goalie tying goal is worth at least three non-impact goals and several empty netters.

I'd keep him for his defensive game but not at any price, especially if there are other options.

So far that was the most important Hab goal of the year. We've beaten the Leafs who are by far the best canadian team and also the team we'll be facing first round. Or second round. That goal also let Caufield score his second OT goal in a row and that alone is a big boost for his confidence. The whole team feels more confidence now. All because of that goal. It's a turning point of the season and it's Made in Danault (who won his face-off before that goal).

He is making McDavid frustrated to the point Danault receive hits. He can shut down Matthews sometimes, not all the times. He did play well the last 3 games without Gallagher and Tatar, this is a fact.

 

[BLONG7]

That's the whole issue.

If you look at the other UFA centers, he's pretty much a consensus as the best UFA center about to hit the open market. And, there's no guarantee the ones lower down, that are worse offensively and defensively than Danault want to come here.

Stastny might be a good stop gap. But what are the odds he wants to come here? Will he sign a short enough deal to not make his next contract a huge risk. He's in Staal's age range.

The game has gotten younger, and faster..........we have to be careful on the number of older and slower guys added...there is a role as we have seen for those guys lke Perry, and other teams have added Thornton etc so I am not sure about a Stastny aged forward, unless it's a short term...
I think 95% of guys on here want Phil to stay put, it's the price and the usage is the issue........with him, and the team.
Hope he stays for a 4M avg per. Term, 4-5 years should do it.

 

[26Mats]

The game has gotten younger, and faster..........we have to be careful on the number of older and slower guys added...there is a role as we have seen for those guys lke Perry, and other teams have added Thornton etc so I am not sure about a Stastny aged forward, unless it's a short term...
I think 95% of guys on here want Phil to stay put, it's the price and the usage is the issue........with him, and the team.
Hope he stays for a 4M avg per. Term, 4-5 years should do it.

I agree it's a big issue going into he summer: how high are we willing to go to keep Danault? What are we going to do if he leaves?

Big issue.

 

[BLONG7]

I agree it's a big issue going into he summer: how high are we willing to go to keep Danault? What are we going to do if he leaves?

Big issue.

Let's hope we get a new GM to make the right decision.

 

[26Mats]

Let's hope we get a new GM to make the right decision.

I would hope so, but it would be a futile use of hope

 

[Mrb1p]

No.
No play-offs, no fun, more bashing, more negative about this team with young players losing confidence.

The Habs havent made the playoffs once with Danault in the top 6.

 

[Mrb1p]

Very few here do not recognize Danault's defensive game; he's arguably the best shutdown C in the League when he's on...it's how much should our GM be willing to pay for having an elite #3C, which is where he would fit in on a contender...if Danault's game was even slightly better offensively, then this would be a different conversation, however he is lacking in offensive creativity & ability and that has to be taken into consideration when deciding how much that elite shutdown ability is worth to a team with 3 young centres also vying for icetime and a flat cap for the next couple of seasons...

Yikes, the best shutdown C?

Bergeron?
Couturier?
Kopitar?
ROR?
Toews?
Barkov?
Point?
Crosby?

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Yikes, the best shutdown C?

Bergeron?
Couturier?
Kopitar?
ROR?
Toews?
Barkov?
Point?
Crosby?

Danault is an elite shutdown centre when he's on, you have to give him credit for that...the issue lies in the fact that his offensive game is sorely lacking, which is why he would never be a Top 6 centre on a contending team...

 

[abo9]

This is too risky. Too much face offs lost, too much goals against us, too much chemistry lost with Gallagher. Danault is so underrated, it's unbeleivable what I read here, it's a shame.

Ask Matthews or McDavid or McKinnon how frustrating it is to face Danault?
Just watch the games and see by yourself the energy Danault is having playing good defence and the safe plays he makes 200 feet. So underrated and so usefull to the Habs.

Yeah, Danault is an excellent checking center I agree. I don't want to pay a checking center $6M for 5-6 years though, and he's gonna receive that - or more maybe.

What risk? we're a mediocre team anyway, are you afraid to finish at the bottom of the league? We do that every other year anyway...

 

[Mrb1p]

Danault is an elite shutdown centre when he's on, you have to give him credit for that...the issue lies in the fact that his offensive game is sorely lacking, which is why he would never be a Top 6 centre on a contending team...

Thats not what you wrote.

Theres no arguing, hes at best top 10.

 

[River Meadow]

Don't even mention the movie Hurricane to me or I'll get way too angry

Hurricane movie