Player Discussion Phillip Danault - You Guys Are Getting Paid? Edition

[BigDaddyLurch]

Thats not what you wrote.

Theres no arguing, hes at best top 10.

...as much as I usually find myself agreeing with you on most topics, I think your dislike for Danault here is clouding your judgement...he is elite defensively and arguably the best pure shutdown C in the League when he's on his game...two of the best young centres in the League agree (MacKinnon & Pornstache) and I'd be willing to bet if they asked McJesus, he'd say the same as Danault has done a good job of mostly shutting him down this year as well...again, the issues with Danault aren't in any way related to his defensive game, which is at an elite level; they're in his lack of offensive creativity & ability, hence the reason he wouldn't be in the Top 6 of any contending team...

 

[Mrb1p]

...as much as I usually find myself agreeing with you on most topics, I think your dislike for Danault here is clouding your judgement...he is elite defensively and arguably the best pure shutdown C in the League when he's on his game...two of the best young centres in the League agree (MacKinnon & Pornstache) and I'd be willing to bet if they asked McJesus, he'd say the same as Danault has done a good job of mostly shutting him down this year as well...again, the issues with Danault aren't in any way related to his defensive game, which is at an elite level; they're in his lack of offensive creativity & ability, hence the reason he wouldn't be in the Top 6 of any contending team...

Its all media hype. Danault is good defensively, but hes nowhere near the actual elite.

 

[BLONG7]

Its all media hype. Danault is good defensively, but hes nowhere near the actual elite.

This happens with leafs and habs players.....my god Pierre Lebrun thinks Phil is almost as good as Mac Jesus....lol
Let's be honest, Phil has not had a good season, but he has time to make that all disappear with a good finish , and a good playoffs.
Everyone wants him to stay, but everyone also knows it will not be at any price.

( side note, guys every player in the league blows smoke when asked about another player, please take that for what's it's worth...glowing smoke if you will... so other players say what they say everytime they get the chance )

 

[LaP]

Yikes, the best shutdown C?

Bergeron?
Couturier?
Kopitar?
ROR?
Toews?
Barkov?
Point?
Crosby?

All just a bunch of scrubs.

 

[canucklover123]

This happens with leafs and habs players.....my god Pierre Lebrun thinks Phil is almost as good as Mac Jesus....lol
Let's be honest, Phil has not had a good season, but he has time to make that all disappear with a good finish , and a good playoffs.
Everyone wants him to stay, but everyone also knows it will not be at any price.

( side note, guys every player in the league blows smoke when asked about another player, please take that for what's it's worth...glowing smoke if you will... so other players say what they say everytime they get the chance )

Lol its always media hype when it doesnt go towards a poster's argument. MacKinnon wasnt asked about PD, he was asked who he hates facing in the NHL and chose PD as a response.....

 

[ghost85875]

I saw some improvements in Danault's offensive game.

Maybe Ducharme is the right coach for him.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Danault is an elite shutdown centre when he's on, you have to give him credit for that...the issue lies in the fact that his offensive game is sorely lacking, which is why he would never be a Top 6 centre on a contending team...

He's 21st in the league amongst all centres for ES points over the last three while spending the majority of his time playing against other team's top lines. He's not flashy offensively, but his line generates lots of chances despite playing tough matchups.

An identical player in Anthony Cirelli just won a cup as a second line centre playing 20 minutes a game, so I don't see how Danault can't be a top 6 centre on a contending team.

 

[canucklover123]

Carbo was on Nilans show a month back, said Danault is a 3rd line checker . What would Carbo know? lol Do the habs management think Danault is a playmaker ?

Right so unless we heard another talkshow, the conversation was around how PD has to accept defensive first minutes similar to how hall of fame Guy Carbonneau did... referring to their situation only being different because Guy produced prior to the NHL.

This was also posted in reference to Phil saying he thinks he would not develop once he only plays D minutes....in which they referred you can build a pretty good career...hence HOF Guy. Just some context

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

The Habs havent made the playoffs once with Danault in the top 6.

But yes this year as top 6.
Anyway, the problems with the Habs the previous years were somewhere else like :
Bad D (Alzner, etc)
Price injured
Weber injured
No Suzuki
Kotkaniemi too young
No other valuable wingers and forwards except his line

Danault's line was the only one with a plus.

 

[Mrb1p]

But yes this year as top 6.
Anyway, the problems with the Habs the previous years were somewhere else like :
Bad D (Alzner, etc)
Price injured
Weber injured
No Suzuki
Kotkaniemi too young
No other valuable wingers and forwards except his line

Danault's line was the only one with a plus.

The problem has been that the Habs have had shit centers for the past century.

 

[LaP]

Thats not what you wrote.

Theres no arguing, hes at best top 10.

Defensively he's among the best in the league. Where he ranks doesn't really matter. His offensive though is overrated by many because of the TOI he got.

Yeah 50 points for a 2nd line center his fine. As long as he's playing 2nd line minutes. But Danault did his 50 points while playing borderline first line minutes.

This means that with 2nd line minutes (like he's getting this year) his production is more in the 40 points which is simply not enough. With 3rd line minutes his production would more than probably fall in the 35-40 points range (which would be very good).

Danault's production over the years :

2016-2017
40 points in 82 games while playing 15 minutes (high 3rd line TOI). In a normal season with small injury/flu it would be in the 35-40 range.

2017-2018
25 points in 52 games (39 points over 82 games) while playing 16:35 (low 2nd line TOI). He was injured we will give him a pass.

2018-2019
53 points in 81 games while playing 17:47 (high 2nd line TOI - first line duty shared with Domi). Borderline 2nd line production but considering the TOI is very close to first line it's certainly not great production. If he could do that every year while playing couple of seconds less behind a real 1st line (not sharing duty) then yeah but as it is no.

2019-2020
47 points in 71 games (54 points over 82 games) while playing 18:51 (first line TOI). Definitely not enough considering the TOI don't care about the excuses like "he plays on PK etc" it simply was not enough.

2020-2021
24 points in 51 games (39 points over 82 games) while playing 17:09 (low 2nd line TOI). That's definitely not enough not even close to be considering the TOI.

IMO we need to move on from Danault. If he accept 3rd line salary then yeah keep him. But if he wants to be paid like a 2nd line center then just let him go and bet on JK developing. JK will be 21 next year he's not a baby anymore.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Yeah, Danault is an excellent checking center I agree. I don't want to pay a checking center $6M for 5-6 years though, and he's gonna receive that - or more maybe.

What risk? we're a mediocre team anyway, are you afraid to finish at the bottom of the league? We do that every other year anyway...

If we don't finish bottom and we pick 12th, it's a big lose. Even picking between 3 and 6 there is no garantee. If our young players lose confidence it's also a trauma that would be bad for their developpement. There's a difference in missing the PO by little and being a depressed losing team like Buffalo.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

He's 21st in the league amongst all centres for ES points over the last three while spending the majority of his time playing against other team's top lines. He's not flashy offensively, but his line generates lots of chances despite playing tough matchups.

...his linemates generate most of said chances offensively, not Phil...he doesn't need to be flashy offensively, however he does need to have adequate puck distribution skills in the offensive zone as well as the ability to be a threat to score himself, both areas in which he lacks...

An identical player in Anthony Cirelli just won a cup as a second line centre playing 20 minutes a game, so I don't see how Danault can't be a top 6 centre on a contending team.

...my apologies, you found the one team with enough winger talent to make up for Danault's lack of offensive chops...

 

[canucklover123]

He's 21st in the league amongst all centres for ES points over the last three while spending the majority of his time playing against other team's top lines. He's not flashy offensively, but his line generates lots of chances despite playing tough matchups.

An identical player in Anthony Cirelli just won a cup as a second line centre playing 20 minutes a game, so I don't see how Danault can't be a top 6 centre on a contending team.

Wait it gets better cause you beat me to it, he also ranks 114th in the NHL in ATOI on 5 on 5. People have gripes saying Phil isn't a top 6, he gets too much minutes, he's producing cause he plays a lot. They seem to forget Montreal literally runs a top 9, PD has as much 5 on 5 ice as a bottom tier basement second line C and no PP time and mind you his 5 on 5 mins aren't against bottom lines, there first line opponents.

Edit: Used hockey-reference as source, there are some players on that list that aren't C's so add a few spots

 

[canucklover123]

If we don't finish bottom and we pick 12th, it's a big lose. Even picking between 3 and 6 there is no garantee. If our young players lose confidence it's also a trauma that would be bad for their developpement. There's a difference in missing the PO by little and being a depressed losing team like Buffalo.

Lol exactly this seems to be a solution of many, the only way our team can be worse if we think going in with NZ, KK, Evans and Poehling as our four C. We play in the worst division at the moment and PD literally takes all the tough assignments primarily this year. Young centres who have never experienced those minutes don't develop if they are looking up and have Anze Kopitar in their face for 20 minutes a night lol

NZ has started to experience it and he shows signs of inconsistency this season. Again NZ is a sweet player and you see signs of development, no guarantee our other centres can do the same

 

[Mrb1p]

Defensively he's among the best in the league. Where he ranks doesn't really matter. His offensive though is overrated by many because of the TOI he got.

Yeah 50 points for a 2nd line center his fine. As long as he's playing 2nd line minutes. But Danault did his 50 points while playing borderline first line minutes.

This means that with 2nd line minutes (like he's getting this year) his production is more in the 40 points which is simply not enough. With 3rd line minutes his production would more than probably fall in the 35-40 points range (which would be very good).

Danault's production over the years :

2016-2017
40 points in 82 games while playing 15 minutes (high 3rd line TOI). In a normal season with small injury/flu it would be in the 35-40 range.

2017-2018
25 points in 52 games (39 points over 82 games) while playing 16:35 (low 2nd line TOI). He was injured we will give him a pass.

2018-2019
53 points in 81 games while playing 17:47 (high 2nd line TOI - first line duty shared with Domi). Borderline 2nd line production but considering the TOI is very close to first line it's certainly not great production. If he could do that every year while playing couple of seconds less behind a real 1st line (not sharing duty) then yeah but as it is no.

2019-2020
47 points in 71 games (54 points over 82 games) while playing 18:51 (first line TOI). Definitely not enough considering the TOI don't care about the excuses like "he plays on PK etc" it simply was not enough.

2020-2021
24 points in 51 games (39 points over 82 games) while playing 17:09 (low 2nd line TOI). That's definitely not enough not even close to be considering the TOI.

IMO we need to move on from Danault. If he accept 3rd line salary then yeah keep him. But if he wants to be paid like a 2nd line center then just let him go and bet on JK developing. JK will be 21 next year he's not a baby anymore.

I know he sucks offensively, ive been saying it for half a decade now.

Its his defensive game that is actually overrated. He makes way too many boneheaded turnovers to be an actual selke quality player, hes also too passive as a zone player and gets lost in coverage. That is something you do not see from the very elite .

Again, nobody in their right minds would say Danault is a better defensive player than Plekanec, and even he wasnt "One of the best".

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

The problem has been that the Habs have had shit centers for the past century.

What happened if they never drafted Getzlaf, Carter, Bergeron, Kopitar, Giroux, Henrique, Point or Aho? Why?
Who decided to pass on so many great centers?
Is it Danault's fault if Habs had nothing better than him for a while?
Did you see lack of effort in his game or bad chemistry or cancer room?
Did you see problems off-ice?

 

[LaP]

I know he sucks offensively, ive been saying it for half a decade now.

Its his defensive game that is actually overrated. He makes way too many boneheaded turnovers to be an actual selke quality player, hes also too passive as a zone player and gets lost in coverage. That is something you do not see from the very elite .

Again, nobody in their right minds would say Danault is a better defensive player than Plekanec, and even he wasnt "One of the best".

Defensively I would rate him somewhere around Plekanec personally. Prime Plekanec was superior offensively though specially the shot it's not even close. He's definitely not a selke player.

 

[abo9]

If we don't finish bottom and we pick 12th, it's a big lose. Even picking between 3 and 6 there is no garantee. If our young players lose confidence it's also a trauma that would be bad for their developpement. There's a difference in missing the PO by little and being a depressed losing team like Buffalo.

And we finish bottom 10 every other year anyway. Danault is not important enough that it's gonna tank the team lol.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I know he sucks offensively, ive been saying it for half a decade now.

Its his defensive game that is actually overrated. He makes way too many boneheaded turnovers to be an actual selke quality player, hes also too passive as a zone player and gets lost in coverage. That is something you do not see from the very elite .

Again, nobody in their right minds would say Danault is a better defensive player than Plekanec, and even he wasnt "One of the best".

Your post on his defensive game is all wrong. You write false comments. This is all wrong.

 

[BLONG7]

What happened if they never drafted Getzlaf, Carter, Bergeron, Kopitar, Giroux, Henrique, Point or Aho? Why?
Who decided to pass on so many great centers?
Is it Danault's fault if Habs had nothing better than him for a while?
Did you see lack of effort in his game or bad chemistry or cancer room?
Did you see problems off-ice?

None of this is on Phil..................still doesn't change the fact, that as our #1 guy for the past 3 seasons, we were NOT a playoff team.
The weak down the middle has been addressed and is a work in progress.
Suzuki and KK are the 1-2 guys who have had good stretches and bad.............again doesn't change the fact that Phil is one of the best 3rd line C's in the league. When used in any other way as we have seen for 3 years now, we fail as a team. Again, NONE of this is on Phil......it is on the clown GM.

 

[Mrb1p]

Defensively I would rate him somewhere around Plekanec personally. Prime Plekanec was superior offensively though specially the shot it's not even close. He's definitely not a selke player.

To be one of the best means to be a selke quality player, imo.

 

[abo9]

Defensively I would rate him somewhere around Plekanec personally. Prime Plekanec was superior offensively though specially the shot it's not even close. He's definitely not a selke player.

Plekanec was a better C than Danault.

It's crazy because the Habs have been looking for a better C since the 2000's, but we went from Koivu -> Plekanec -> Danault, each successor being a lesser version of its predecessor. I'm hoping with all my heart that Suzuki breaks the trend.

 

[Mrb1p]

Your post on his defensive game is all wrong. You write false comments. This is all wrong.

What is wrong? Does he not get lost in coverage? Does he not turn the puck over way too much.

(Hehas 35 registered GVA and 13 takeaways, btw.)

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

And we finish bottom 10 every other year anyway. Danault is not important enough that it's gonna tank the team lol.

The other years there was no Anderson, Toffoli, Perry, Romanov, Edmonston, Allen, Evans and Primeau. So all those added will not make habs drown enough to pick between #2 to #6 but just missing the PO by little and it's the worst place to finish.
Making the PO is giving PO experience to our young core, it's priceless.