Player Discussion Phillip Danault - You Guys Are Getting Paid? Edition

[LaP]

To be one of the best means to be a selke quality player, imo.

No a selke is the best a given year (not among). Being among the best means top 20 or so (outside of top 10). There's around 750 players in this league. If you're top 20 in anything you're among the best in that thing.

 

[canucklover123]

Defensively he's among the best in the league. Where he ranks doesn't really matter. His offensive though is overrated by many because of the TOI he got.

Yeah 50 points for a 2nd line center his fine. As long as he's playing 2nd line minutes. But Danault did his 50 points while playing borderline first line minutes.

This means that with 2nd line minutes (like he's getting this year) his production is more in the 40 points which is simply not enough. With 3rd line minutes his production would more than probably fall in the 35-40 points range (which would be very good).

Danault's production over the years :

2016-2017
40 points in 82 games while playing 15 minutes (high 3rd line TOI). In a normal season with small injury/flu it would be in the 35-40 range.

2017-2018
25 points in 52 games (39 points over 82 games) while playing 16:35 (low 2nd line TOI). He was injured we will give him a pass.

2018-2019
53 points in 81 games while playing 17:47 (high 2nd line TOI - first line duty shared with Domi). Borderline 2nd line production but considering the TOI is very close to first line it's certainly not great production. If he could do that every year while playing couple of seconds less behind a real 1st line (not sharing duty) then yeah but as it is no.

2019-2020
47 points in 71 games (54 points over 82 games) while playing 18:51 (first line TOI). Definitely not enough considering the TOI don't care about the excuses like "he plays on PK etc" it simply was not enough.

2020-2021
24 points in 51 games (39 points over 82 games) while playing 17:09 (low 2nd line TOI). That's definitely not enough not even close to be considering the TOI.

IMO we need to move on from Danault. If he accept 3rd line salary then yeah keep him. But if he wants to be paid like a 2nd line center then just let him go and bet on JK developing. JK will be 21 next year he's not a baby anymore.

Fair post but your TOI isn't a good representation of ice time comparable because he doesnt play PP, only PK. Most top 6 centres either play both or play PP. I would redo it with 5 on5 TOI, he has played in spurts PP but majority over the years PK.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

What is wrong? Does he not get lost in coverage? Does he not turn the puck over way too much.

No. Buy new glasses or listen to the experts in the medias.
You are the only one lying about him, for years. The only thing you do daily is bashing Danault.
That's your obsession.

 

[LaP]

Fair post but your TOI isn't a good representation of ice time comparable because he doesnt play PP, only PK. Most top 6 centres either play both or play PP. I would redo it with 5 on5 TOI, he has played in spurts PP but majority over the years PK.

He played PP in the past. Beside a 2nd line center not able to play on the wing and playing behind a strong 1st line center wont get that much TOI on PP. He'll likely get around 30-40 seconds at the end of the PP. He'll also get all defensive zone FO on the PP.

It's common for 2nd line centers (not malkin) to play a more defensive role. Danault is not special. As a defensive 2nd line center not able to score and play wing he'll never play much on the PP. But he still need to be productive offensively which he is not.

Beside when you play almost 19 minutes like he did in 2019-2020 then there's absolutely no excuses you got to be productive.

 

[Mrb1p]

No. But new glasses or listen to the experts in the medias.
You are the only one lying about him, for years. The only thing you do daily is bashing Danault.
That's your obsession.

Appeal to authority does nothing for your argument. If you want to make me look like the fool you think I am, you will have to try harder and use your wits, otherwise youre just fart breath.

 

[canucklover123]

He played PP in the past. Beside a 2nd line center not able to play on the wing and playing behind a strong 1st line center wont get that much TOI on PP.

His PP time is significantly lower than a top 6 over the span of years you mentioned. This year again, he barely touched it. That is why i'm saying you can'y use TOI and point comparison and compare to other top 6 C because he plays different minutes.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

None of this is on Phil..................still doesn't change the fact, that as our #1 guy for the past 3 seasons, we were NOT a playoff team.
The weak down the middle has been addressed and is a work in progress.
Suzuki and KK are the 1-2 guys who have had good stretches and bad.............again doesn't change the fact that Phil is one of the best 3rd line C's in the league. When used in any other way as we have seen for 3 years now, we fail as a team. Again, NONE of this is on Phil......it is on the clown GM.

This GM would be even "clownyer" if he let Danault walk and doesn't replace him with equal value.
There is not a ton of valuable C available. Danault might be the best one available next summer.
Kreji and Stasny are not an option, they are too old. We already had bad experience with oldies. Those 2 won't ask for a one year contract, you know it.
Did you see such an improvement with Suzuki and Kotkaniemi?
How about their face off wins, their physical game, their speed and their constancy?

 

[canucklover123]

He played PP in the past. Beside a 2nd line center not able to play on the wing and playing behind a strong 1st line center wont get that much TOI on PP. He'll likely get around 30-40 seconds at the end of the PP. He'll also get all defensive zone FO on the PP.

It's common for 2nd line centers (not malkin) to play a more defensive role. Danault is not special. As a defensive 2nd line center not able to score and play wing he'll never play much on the PP. But he still need to be productive offensively which he is not.

Beside when you play almost 19 minutes like he did in 2019-2020 then there's absolutely no excuses you got to be productive.

Right, so please list 2nd Line Centres that play upper echelon minutes only against first liners. Most teams have a checking C to do that.... Like l literally just listed he is ranked 114th this year in 5 On 5 ice time, something people seem to forget...

 

[abo9]

The other years there was no Anderson, Toffoli, Perry, Romanov, Edmonston, Allen, Evans and Primeau. So all those added will not make habs drown enough to pick between #2 to #6 but just missing the PO by little and it's the worst place to finish.
Making the PO is giving PO experience to our young core, it's priceless.

And I argue that with or without Danault won't make a different to our standings... we might even see progression rather than stagnation. He's a useful player, I just don't think he fits our team in the near future and would rather not extend him for UFA money. If he wants a team-friendly deal then go for it.

 

[LaP]

His PP time is significantly lower than a top 6 over the span of years you mentioned. This year again, he barely touched it. That is why i'm saying you can'y use TOI and point comparison and compare to other top 6 C because he plays different minutes.

In 2019-2020 he played on average 1:39 a game on the PP (111 minutes total). Montreal had 186 PP that year. SO he played on average 36 seconds every PP which is a little bit lower than you would expect for a 2nd unit but not that much.

 

[canucklover123]

This GM would be even "clownyer" if he let Danault walk and doesn't replace him with equal value.
There is not a ton of valuable C available. Danault might be the best one available next summer.
Kreji and Stasny are not an option, they are too old. We already had bad experience with oldies. Those 2 won't ask for a one year contract, you know it.
Did you see such an improvement with Suzuki and Kotkaniemi?
How about their face off wins, their physical game, their speed and their constancy?

NZ has showed some ability this year. He got harder minutes as the season went on, teams also singled him out as being our pseudo first line C. He obviously went through a rut with these adjustments but he still shows promise and you bank on his ability to be able to do it.

All our other centres haven't experienced it yet, maybe Evans one day, maybe KK turns the corner..who knows

 

[canucklover123]

In 2019-2020 he played on average 1:39 a game on the PP (111 minutes total). Montreal had 186 PP that year. SO he played on average 36 seconds every PP which is a little bit lower than you would expect for a 2nd unit but not that much.

Again thats one segment, now add in his PK time being on the higher end of the normal and you just listed a centerman having his TOI breakdown on the upper echelon of PK and lower echelon on PP. Makes a significant difference. That is why your original analysis should be done with 5 on 5 ATOI.

 

[cphabs]

Our 1st line center has 5 goals... Our former 1st center is on medical leave after scoring 2 goals in 44 games... His replacement, after a trade, has not only won a Stanley Cup, but is a f***ing LD with comparative point total at the age of f***ing 22. Oh, he’s a 6’3 220lb extremely mobile and still developing. We are currently developing Romanov, another dynamic and highly skilled LD rookie on his f***ing off side or benching him. I am so sick of this bullshit! Caufield is now being developed on his off side... rant over!

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

NZ has showed some ability this year. He got harder minutes as the season went on, teams also singled him out as being our pseudo first line C. He obviously went through a rut with these adjustments but he still shows promise and you bank on his ability to be able to do it.

All our other centres haven't experienced it yet, maybe Evans one day, maybe KK turns the corner..who knows

For me, it's not enough. Don't forget he played in the north division with only the canadian teams. Having to play against Capitals, Bruins, Bolts, Avalange, Islanders, Canes, Panthers is a nightmare.
NZ is showing progress recently but he's been in a slump. This team was carryed by his wingers mostly. Kotkaniemi wasn't impressive but Evans was a good surprise. Who knows about Poehling and others from Laval but one fact remains, centers are rare and they never sign here ufa.

 

[Not The One]

Very few here do not recognize Danault's defensive game; he's arguably the best shutdown C in the League when he's on...it's how much should our GM be willing to pay for having an elite #3C, which is where he would fit in on a contender...if Danault's game was even slightly better offensively, then this would be a different conversation, however he is lacking in offensive creativity & ability and that has to be taken into consideration when deciding how much that elite shutdown ability is worth to a team with 3 young centres also vying for icetime and a flat cap for the next couple of seasons...

Let's be real.

If Danault was a better goalscorer the usual suspects would whine that he's a puck hog.
If Danault was a better passer they'd whine that the only thing that matters is scoring goals.
If he was a better scorer and passer they'd whine that he's only a product of X other player on his line.

The very second that Danault started getting more ice time a few years ago, and he started producing while earning a bargain-basement salary we started seeing theads about how he's not a real "first line" center and should be traded. Even though the habs were desperate for ANY good C.

I cannot recall in all my time here any other player of his quality where some "fans" made such a fuss about him possibly earning a 2 million $ raise. Josh "one goal" Anderson got a 5.5M-7 year contract and posters here cheered. It's almost beyond comprehension.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Our 1st line center has 5 goals... Our former 1st center is on medical leave after scoring 2 goals in 44 games... His replacement, after a trade, has not only won a Stanley Cup, but is a f***ing LD with comparative point total at the age of f***ing 22. Oh, he’s a 6’3 220lb extremely mobile and still developing. We are currently developing Romanov, another dynamic and highly skilled LD rookie on his f***ing off side or benching him. I am so sick of this bullshit! Caufield is now being developed on his off side... rant over!

Suzuki has been Montreal's most used center for the entire year.

 

[cphabs]

Suzuki has been Montreal's most used center for the entire year.

“Former”

 

[canucklover123]

For me, it's not enough. Don't forget he played in the north division with only the canadian teams. Having tom play against Capitals, Bruins, Bolts, Avalange, Islanders, Canes, Panthers is a nightmare.
NZ is showing progress recently but he's been in a slump. This team was carryed by his wingers mostly. Kotkaniemi wasn't impressive but Evans was a good surprise. Who knows about Poehling and others from Laval but one fact remains, centers are rare and they never sign here ufa.

Oh no dude i agree lol, I cant believe people come here and post that as a solution hahah. We make fun of edmonton for their stupidities and they have the best player in the world. Imagine us going forward with four young C next year in the NHL. makes me laugh. Danault literally covers the hardest aspect or deterrent of a player developing .He lets our young C's develop instead of being thrown to the wolves with a pat on the back and complimentary good luck

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Oh no dude i agree lol, I cant believe people come here and post that as a solution hahah. We make fun of edmonton for their stupidities and they have the best player in the world. Imagine us going forward with four young C next year in the NHL. makes me laugh. Danault literally covers the hardest aspect or deterrent of a player developing .He lets our young C's develop instead of being thrown to the wolves with a pat on the back and complimentary good luck

So agree!

 

[Captain Mountain]

“Former”

"Our 1st line center has 5 goals"

Suzuki is Montreal's 1st line center.

Suzuki has 12.

 

[cphabs]

"Our 1st line center has 5 goals"

Suzuki is Montreal's 1st line center.

Suzuki has 12.

“Former”

 

[Captain Mountain]

“Former”

Read your post.

 

[Not The One]

The incentive would be there because they would absolutely have to. Bergevin failed to acquire a top 6 C and just said "Well Phils here so were going to be fine."

Without him he does not have that cushion.

I just... can't... even...

Your argument is that because we have Danault taking up 3,88% of our cap space, and because he's good, he's preventing us from getting someone better?

Let's get rid of EVERY productive player we have, so that way bergevin will HAVE to get someone better! What a great plan!

This so ridiculous... I really don't know how to respond to that...

 

[Mrb1p]

I just... can't... even...

Your argument is that because we have Danault taking up 3,88% of our cap space, and because he's good, he's preventing us from getting someone better?

Let's get rid of EVERY productive player we have, so that way bergevin will HAVE to get someone better! What a great plan!

This so ridiculous... I really don't know how to respond to that...

Eh, sad that this is the only rebuttal you can come up with. Asinine at best.

 

[Sorinth]

For me, it's not enough. Don't forget he played in the north division with only the canadian teams. Having to play against Capitals, Bruins, Bolts, Avalange, Islanders, Canes, Panthers is a nightmare.

I mean even if you think this years numbers are inflated, as a rookie he had 48 points in 81 games (Including the playoffs) where he did play those teams.

NZ is showing progress recently but he's been in a slump.

Is your expectation that a player never slumps? Because even superstar players have slumps from time to time.