Player Discussion Phillip Danault II: 2nd C? edition

[BaseballCoach]

Nahh.. Shaw is fine. I like what he brings to Domi's line. He knows he'll be scratched again if he does stupid things again.

When Byron and Armia come back, I'd sit Hudon and Agostino.

As for Danault, I can't really complain. He's a bottom 6 C who's being asked to be a top line C. He's not where he's supposed to be. That's not his fault.

For now, though, they could switch Hudon and Agostino

 

[1909]

In a near future... This year or next ? - Danault gonna play C on the 3rd line, and Kotkaniemi gonna be the 2nd line center. Let's be patient a bit.

Habs should hire Guy Carbonneau to give Faceoffs lessons and learn how to kill penalties. I dunno anymore what's Kirk Muller doing.

 

[Saundies]

In a near future... This year or next ? - Danault gonna play C on the 3rd line, and Kotkaniemi gonna be the 2nd line center. Let's be patient a bit.

Habs should hire Guy Carbonneau to give Faceoffs lessons and learn how to kill penalties. I dunno anymore what's Kirk Muller doing.

Agreed. And as much as he's offensively stagnant right now, he doesn't exactly hurt or hold his line back.

 

[Kunta Kinte]

1 goal, 20 games.

He not really good this year.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

1 goal, 20 games.

He not really good this year.

Apparently his defensive stats are good. That's what someone in the trade board told me in the Jake Muzzin to MTL thread.

I can't read those analytics charts (and I don't think they're remotely precise in general) but that's what they say.

 

[NobleSix]

He should be on the 3rd line.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Apparently his defensive stats are good. That's what someone in the trade board told me in the Jake Muzzin to MTL thread.

I can't read those analytics charts (and I don't think they're remotely precise in general) but that's what they say.

he's doing well defensively, that's about it.

1 goal in 20 games
got an assist vs Vancouver by losing his face-off
his previous assist was from a missed pass attempt (deflected)

 

[ryan callahan]

1 goal, 20 games.

He not really good this year.

Pass first player gets more assists. Surprising isn't it . So was it Cheechoo and Marleau that were carrying Thornton all this time? St-Louis and Wheeler are middling second line wingers? Gimme a break.

 

[Kunta Kinte]

Pass first player gets more assists. Surprising isn't it . So was it Cheechoo and Marleau that were carrying Thornton all this time? St-Louis and Wheeler are middling second line wingers? Gimme a break.

He is a pass first player not generating any scoring chances for his winger with his passes...name me it great feed he did this year without YT or google...

He is a shutdown 3rd/4th liner...

 

[bsl]

Not true. He's had instances of holding on just enough to cause a switch or a a player to commit to checking him that frees up a linemate before dishing it. Didn't see much of that before. Saw him usually do what you just said or simply skate in forward stride up and down, while trying to put pressure on the puck carrier.

Not saying its at a high level, but it was absent and now its present at times.

Danault is another in a long line of centres for Habs who cannot score goals.

I posted on the lack of goal scoring from Habs Centres nine years ago here. It was one of the first things I posted on, and it has been brutal seeing Habs do nothing to fix this the last 8 years. It has been a big problem for habs forever.

Danault has 30 shots on goal in 20 games playing on the second/first line. That is bad. Really bad. Note that Kotkaniemi has 38 shots on goal playing on the third line, in 4 less minutes a game. It's one reason I am really liking Kotkaniemi. He might actually become a 20 goal scoring centre. Maybe more. Because he shoots. I am a firm believer that shots on goal are a major factor in predicting goal scoring ability and potential.

Danault is the new Desharnais, but much better defensively. I don't even think his offense is good enough for the third line, without top six wingers beside him. If he starts blocking centres moving up, I'll despair. If they want to contend in a few years, Habs can't afford to have top centres that cannot score on the team, especially with the dreadful offense from the D men.

Younger Habs fans have become used to this no goal scoring from the centres, and have very low standards with C men as a result. Understandable.

I hope the best for him. I like the guy's attitude and hustle. But there's no way anyone can seriously think this guy is an effective 2 line C.

 

[bsl]

Suzuki is a RW, not a natural center.

In a couple of years....

Kotka
??????..... maybe Domi
Danault
??????

Would be nice if we could trade Poehling+2019 1st+ something, for a 1st line center coming into his prime..

1st line C
Kotkaniemi
Domi
Danault

Now THAT would look very strong at center.

Like this post. I have a feeling that Poehling will be yet another centre that can't score gaols. I know it was a different time, but take a look at Guy Carbonneau's junior stats, and his crucial goal scoring for Habs at no 3 C. It's still true today. Being good defensibly at 3C with zero offensive skill does not cut it on a contender.

 

[bsl]

Pass first player gets more assists. Surprising isn't it . So was it Cheechoo and Marleau that were carrying Thornton all this time? St-Louis and Wheeler are middling second line wingers? Gimme a break.

You can't have a top two centre that cannot score goals. Not with average assist ability. And Thornton. LOL.

 

[bsl]

The guy continues to produce with zero PP time.

Produce what?

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Apparently his defensive stats are good. That's what someone in the trade board told me in the Jake Muzzin to MTL thread.

I can't read those analytics charts (and I don't think they're remotely precise in general) but that's what they say.

His line has been tearing it up. His stats are going to reflect that somehow. As it is, I'm concerned about the guy's offense, but the defensive awareness, the effort, the faceoff dot make him a valuable piece to have on the bottom 6, neitherless an option to use on the top 6 when there's no one better for that position. There can be talk about putting Kotkaniemi in that position right now but let's not forget that the Gallagher - Danault - Tatar line have been used against the toughest oposition and look at the standings, they speak for themselves. Sure Danault isn't ideal for the task offensively but his defensive play has been quite good.

 

[BLONG7]

The Habs are the only team in the league who would even consider PD as a second line centre...he should be on the 3rd line and kill penalties...he is perfect for that role.

 

[bsl]

All the Danault hate just confirms how little the average poster knows about hockey. He is a solid player and would be a quality 3rd line center if we had legitimate centers inthe top six ahead of him.He is doing a fine job considering what is being asked of him.

Yeah OK. And what's with the word Hate?

 

[bsl]

He is our PK specialist ! And he his the perfect teamate and ambassador for the Habs. I would wait until Poehling is really ready to take this role before trading him ! And even there

Ambassador? In what way? What does this have to do with hockey?

 

[bsl]

Not just second line level, they're close to being low first line center...

It's actually weird that he's able to produce so many even strength points without having elite offensive talent...

43 even strength points is up there with the best centers in the league...

LMFAO

 

[bsl]

How exactly does that make Danault look worse?

All those stats were brought up to show that he was not carried and his stats were not inflated by playing on the top line!

And I'm not arguing here that he's a #1 center in this league!

I'm just trying to say he's a solid #3/#2 center.

No chance in hell is this guy a 4th line center!

If he's your 4th line center, you're stacked af at center!

You really need to raise your standards for centres man.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You really need to raise your standards for centres man.

At even strength, Danault has done well, and his skill at puck pursuit and at shutting down the opponents both help our offence.

With a man up, his skill set is less relevant, and he should not see any regular time on the power play.

 

[ryan callahan]

LMFAO

Great argument. Numbers prove that Danault is a decent 2C on both sides of the puck 5v5 that isn't suited for the PP game and all you find is ''LMFAO''.

 

[bsl]

You greatly undervalue Danault.

There are only 65 forwards with more ES points than Danault, that's 2.1 per team. That makes him clearly worthy of a top-6 role at ES, low first line actually. And this is not new, his ES production the past two years were also easily within the top-6 forwards of most teams.

Before this statistic is dismissed as suspect, take a look at some of the players who are top scorers (0.8ppg or more) but have less or the same ES points as Danault:
Evgeni Kuznetsov
Brad Marchand
Nicklas Backstrom
Steven Stamkos
Matthew Barzal
Taylor Hall
David Krejci
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Elias Lindholm
Mikko Koivu
Chris Kreider
Mike Hoffman
Cam Atkinson
Mika Zibanejad
Kyle Connor
Jonathan Marchessault

You have to admit that is impressive. I did not pick guys in bad years, I only counted forwards who are first-line level in overall points, 0.8 ppg or more, and compared their ES points to Danault's.

Now I am NOT saying that Danault is the unknown superstar who should be put on the PP and he will be one of the top scorers in the league. No, what I am saying is that the way he is being used, with top-6 minutes at ES (and also on PK) is totally appropriate. It is not for nothing that his line gets 60% of the grade A scoring chances when he is on the ice and 66% of the shots. It's because his skill at puck pursuit and retrieval as well as his ability to break up opposing players' offence and re-launch a counter-attack is excellent. These things tilt the ice at 5-on-5.

You think that will be the case in 60 more games? And I'm not arguing to drop Danault from line 2 right now by the way. Pathetically, habs have no one else. But if they don't drop him to line 3 next year they're f***ing idiots. And it sounds like your arguing he should stay at 2C for a few years. Are you?

Great argument. Numbers prove that Danault is a decent 2C on both sides of the puck 5v5 that isn't suited for the PP game and all you find is ''LMFAO''.

Sometimes there's no point arguing, it's so obvious.

Danault's line plays against opponents top lines. People here really think we need to give that pressure to Kotka? I don't agree.

I'm not arguing for Kotka on line 2. I'm arguing that longer term Danault does not belong on line 2, and maybe not even line 3, if Habs are a contender.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You think that will be the case in 60 more games? And I'm not arguing to drop Danault from line 2 right now by the way. Pathetically, habs have no one else. But if they don't drop him to line 3 next year they're ****ing idiots. And it sounds like your arguing he should stay at 2C for a few years. Are you?

No. If Kotkaniemi progresses as we think, I believe he will be 1-2 or 2-1 with Domi next year.

 

[bsl]

True, and I'm not saying Danault is a true first line player. but his usage as a top-6 player at ES only is not hurting the team.

For now. We'll talk in a couple of months. It's amazing how people here don't recognise patterns that occur with Habs year after year.

You have to take this out of your head, Kotkaniemi is an UPGRADE on Danault, he's going ot produce even more chances than he does.

And he might score a goal now and then. When his wingers are locked up.

 

[bsl]

He is now a credible second line C.

Not even close DA. Read my other posts. You cannot have a top 6 C that cannot score goals. I stand by this. This is one of the main reasons for years of ineptitude by Habs