OT: Philadelphia Phillies: Sometimes Ball Go Boom And Sometimes It Don’t (NL Champs)

[trostol]

its like there is a new stat every year

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[DancingPanther]

its like there is a new stat every year

A new stat *publically available every year

This doesn't make me feel better

 

[JojoTheWhale]

A new stat *publically available every year


This doesn't make me feel better

Sounds like Boras disagreeing on how to move forward. They’ve disagreed on how to handle him before.

Or his arm is a hologram. *shrug*

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

A new stat *publically available every year


This doesn't make me feel better

Sounds like Boras.

Edit: Damn you, Jojo.

 

[JXC]

Radiologist reads the study and sees an abnormality. Refer to multiple Orthos aka “Should we wait eight to twelve weeks and see what happens or cut him now?”

 

[DancingPanther]

Sounds like Boras disagreeing on how to move forward. They’ve disagreed on how to handle him before.

Or his arm is a hologram. *shrug*

TNSTAAPP

 

[Flybynite]

A new stat *publically available every year


This doesn't make me feel better

Zolecki yesterday talking about how Phillies weren't worried about his long-term health was like... "OK... So what exactly do you mean by LONG-TERM"? If it was "Phillies aren't worried he'll miss significant time this season" that's a lot more of an explicit answer.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Now not even baseball fields are safe from toxic forever chemicals

Four samples of the turf used at Veterans Stadium were obtained by local reporters and tested for toxins, and scientists found the turf had detectable levels of 16 PFAS 'forever chemicals'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Cancer-linked forever chemicals have been found on samples from a Philadelphia stadium that previously hosted the city's MLB and NFL team.

Experts fear the toxins may have played a role in the brain cancer deaths of six former professional baseball players.

Four samples of the turf used at Veterans Stadium were obtained by local reporters and tested for toxins, and scientists found the turf had detectable levels of 16 PFAS 'forever chemicals'.

 

[deadhead]

Now not even baseball fields are safe from toxic forever chemicals

Four samples of the turf used at Veterans Stadium were obtained by local reporters and tested for toxins, and scientists found the turf had detectable levels of 16 PFAS 'forever chemicals'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Cancer-linked forever chemicals have been found on samples from a Philadelphia stadium that previously hosted the city's MLB and NFL team.

Experts fear the toxins may have played a role in the brain cancer deaths of six former professional baseball players.

Four samples of the turf used at Veterans Stadium were obtained by local reporters and tested for toxins, and scientists found the turf had detectable levels of 16 PFAS 'forever chemicals'.

Meh. "Everything gives you cancer, there's no cure, there's no answer."

The ability to detect minimal levels of chemicals means we're gonna find this shit everywhere we look.
But in the end, you don't want cancer, eat better - the correlation between diet and cancer is stronger than almost anything else outside of smoking and living in areas with high concentrations of PM2.5 particles (small enough to do deep into lungs), i.e. cities (auto exhaust) and near coal burning power plants.

 

[Jack Straw]

Now not even baseball fields are safe from toxic forever chemicals

Four samples of the turf used at Veterans Stadium were obtained by local reporters and tested for toxins, and scientists found the turf had detectable levels of 16 PFAS 'forever chemicals'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Cancer-linked forever chemicals have been found on samples from a Philadelphia stadium that previously hosted the city's MLB and NFL team.

Experts fear the toxins may have played a role in the brain cancer deaths of six former professional baseball players.

Four samples of the turf used at Veterans Stadium were obtained by local reporters and tested for toxins, and scientists found the turf had detectable levels of 16 PFAS 'forever chemicals'.

That turf was a nightmare.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Someone talk me out of switching to a full season of tickets.

The Phillies have talked me out of it.

I reached out on Monday for some options. Got an email from a rep with options at the close of business on Monday. I said i'd have to think about it overnight and then I let him know early Tuesday that the one i'd like to do.

I have yet to hear back from the guy and when I called the main number trying to buy them today they said that since I was assigned to a rep their hands are tied until I hear from that guy.

Woof.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

It’s honestly crazy the hoops you have to jump through sometimes to give people your money.

 

[DancingPanther]

Now not even baseball fields are safe from toxic forever chemicals

Four samples of the turf used at Veterans Stadium were obtained by local reporters and tested for toxins, and scientists found the turf had detectable levels of 16 PFAS 'forever chemicals'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Cancer-linked forever chemicals have been found on samples from a Philadelphia stadium that previously hosted the city's MLB and NFL team.

Experts fear the toxins may have played a role in the brain cancer deaths of six former professional baseball players.

Four samples of the turf used at Veterans Stadium were obtained by local reporters and tested for toxins, and scientists found the turf had detectable levels of 16 PFAS 'forever chemicals'.

Hey cool dailymail article. The only expert quoted in the story was Fox News Health Correspondent Dr [sic] Marc Seigel, despite the headline and article both claiming "experts suspect". It also identifies AstroTurf as a product "manufactured by agrochemical giant Monsanto", and calls a player who played for the Phillies a "former Philly".

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Hey cool dailymail article that features quotes from Fox News Health Correspondent Dr [sic] Marc Seigel and identifies AstroTurf as a product "manufactured by agrochemical giant Monsanto"

I only posted the Daily Mail article because the original is behind the Philadelphia Enqiurer paywall.

You're one of those people who won't believe something unless "their people" tell you it's true, aren't you? Lovely open mind.

....you're probably the person who would also say, "Thank for the paywall article, jerk", right?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I almost posted the Inquirer article yesterday. It's one of those things where there doesn't seem to be a scientific consensus, but that turf was the dirt worst by basically every measure.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

AKA career threatening injury. Fuuuuuuuuck

 

[Flybynite]

I think one of the main questions is, is this just the Vet?

The Vet stadium turf was the same turf used at a number of other stadiums. When it first came out you had AstroTurf (period) they were the only manufacturer. Sometime during the 70s you got 3M making an alternative artificial turf which I know was used at Three Rivers Stadium.

So why isn't there something similar going on for say Riverfront Stadium which used the same AstroTurf as the Vet?

Also some of the players were here a very short time like Ken Brett(1 season), Johnny Oates(2 seasons).

I know there are people who whenever this came out before talk about the Eagles playing there too, but they spend far less time on the surface than baseball players... and the artificial turf was known to give off fumes under intense heat which is when the baseball players were more likely to be on the surface than the football players.


One interesting thing to note of the 6 players. All of them except for Vukovich were either pitchers(Tug McGraw, David West and Ken Brett ) or catchers (Darren Daulton and Johnny Oates)

I've seen some people speculate perhaps pitchers/catchers going to their mouth to wet their hands at times may have contributed to getting toxic particles into their system.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I think one of the main questions is, is this just the Vet?

The Vet stadium turf was the same turf used at a number of other stadiums. When it first came out you had AstroTurf (period) they were the only manufacturer. Sometime during the 70s you got 3M making an alternative artificial turf which I know was used at Three Rivers Stadium.

So why isn't there something similar going on for say Riverfront Stadium which used the same AstroTurf as the Vet?

Also some of the players were here a very short time like Ken Brett(1 season), Johnny Oates(2 seasons).

I know there are people who whenever this came out before talk about the Eagles playing there too, but they spend far less time on the surface than baseball players... and the artificial turf was known to give off fumes under intense heat which is when the baseball players were more likely to be on the surface than the football players.


One interesting thing to note of the 6 players. All of them except for Vukovich were either pitchers(Tug McGraw, David West and Ken Brett ) or catchers (Darren Daulton and Johnny Oates)

I've seen some people speculate perhaps pitchers/catchers going to their mouth to wet their hands at times may have contributed to getting toxic particles into their system.

There was an informal study done related to Washington soccer communities and an absurdly high percentage of cancers involved Goalies too.

There was also a 3rd brand of turf that used polypropylene instead of nylon. I don’t know if it was used anywhere else, but it was definitely in the Orange Bowl. That's the one that famously turned blue in the UV exposure.

 

[DancingPanther]

I almost posted the Inquirer article yesterday. It's one of those things where there doesn't seem to be a scientific consensus, but that turf was the dirt worst by basically every measure.

Never once did I say there couldn't be a correlation Jojo, (in fact I wouldn't be surprised if there was) just that the information presented in the article is garbage speculation peddled by garbage sources. Doesn't even list the chemicals, just the buzzword "forever-chemicals". Red flags galore. Until something real is presented, it's just noise.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Never once did I say there couldn't be a correlation Jojo, just that the information presented in the article is garbage speculation peddled by garbage sources. Doesn't even list the chemicals, just the buzzword "forever-chemicals". Red flags galore. Until something real is presented, it's just noise.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth. Just talking about the issue. <3

 

[DancingPanther]

There was an informal study done related to Washington soccer communities and an absurdly high percentage of cancers involved Goalies too.

There was also a 3rd brand of turf that used polypropylene instead of nylon. I don’t know if it was used anywhere else, but it was definitely in the Orange Bowl. That's the one that famously turned blue in the UV exposure.

The crumb rubber is made from recycled tires. There's a reason they're not supposed to be burned. The speculative link is very clearly there, but retrospective analysis is not the method to identify any link here. In this situation it's inherently flawed, as it breeds conformation bias i.e. "correlation =\= causation".

If Fox News Experts (I'm sorry that's just too good to pass up, you know I mean actual environmental/oncology specialists) are really serious about identifying any connection, a decades long prospective analysis needs to occur. Thousands of kids need to be followed (phrasing?) into adulthood as they spend time on turf; the turf they play on, the amount of time spent on each type of turf, how each type of turf is treated/maintained, the chemicals used in the manufacturing of each type of turf, the position/sport they play, and some other variables that don't immediately come to mind right now all need to be documented. Then they need to be periodically screened for various cancers from adulthood into their elderly years. It would be quite a process, but a pretty basic one to be organized by those in the scientific community. Health science takes time.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The crumb rubber is made from recycled tires. There's a reason they're not supposed to be burned. The speculative link is very clearly there, but retrospective analysis is not the method to identify any link here. In this situation it's inherently flawed, as it breeds conformation bias i.e. "correlation =\= causation".

If Fox News Experts (I'm sorry that's just too good to pass up, you know I mean actual environmental/oncology specialists) are really serious about identifying any connection, a decades long prospective analysis needs to occur. Thousands of kids need to be followed (phrasing?) into adulthood as they spend time on turf; the turf they play on, the amount of time spent on each type of turf, how each type of turf is treated/maintained, the chemicals used in the manufacturing of each type of turf, the position/sport they play, and some other variables that don't immediately come to mind right now all need to be documented. Then they need to be periodically screened for various cancers from adulthood into their elderly years. It would be quite a process, but a pretty basic one to be organized by those in the scientific community. Health science takes time.

I just want to point out that I said the study was informal for reasons like these. Proper rigor takes time, effort, and planning. What's out there from good sources is upfront about it all being unclear. Like this for example: Artificial Turf and Cancer Risk

There's probably very little money to study these things properly, so I doubt we'll ever have a good answer.

 

[DancingPanther]

I just want to point out that I said the study was informal for reasons like these. Proper rigor takes time, effort, and planning. What's out there from good sources is upfront about it all being unclear. Like this for example: Artificial Turf and Cancer Risk

There's probably very little money to study these things properly, so I doubt we'll ever have a good answer.

Which is a shame because of there really is a link, changes need to be made to turf. Obviously.

One of my friends had a glioblastoma. Baseball player all year round. Lots of turf

 

[spintheblackcircle]

I wonder if they’ve ever gone to people who are responsible for maintaining the field like groundskeepers. They were around the turf 40 hours plus a week for years.