OT: Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Wheels and Sarge out.

[Hiesenberg]

Giles?

I believe he would be in the bigs or knocking on the door if he didn't get hurt last year.

Maybe...I don't remember. I looked at his A+ numbers last year. 19BBs in 25IP. Not good

 

[Protest]

I don't want to reopen it if it already happened, where did you all stand on Halladay potentially getting a HOF bid?

I would say yea. I believe there are 57 SP's in the Hall.

Among pitchers with 2000 IP, Halladay is:

20th all time in ERA+
10th in K/BB
34th or 40th in WAR (Depending on if you use FG or BR WAR)
40th in WAR for his peak 7 years
20th in FIP (since 1975)
3rd in xFIP (since 1975)
7th in HR/9 (since 95, steroid era)

He pitched well enough to win the Cy Young in 4 seasons.

He had more complete games in his career than any other team had since he entered the league.

He lead the league in WAR during his career.

He got to 2000 strikeouts and 200 wins. Most of those wins on a bad team.

I'd say he stacks up around average to maybe a little below for HOF pitchers, but he also pitched in the steroid era, so that's a pretty great accomplishment.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Heres another question, does Pedro Martinez get in?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Heres another question, does Pedro Martinez get in?

Yes next year.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Heres another question, does Pedro Martinez get in?

I would hope so. Is there a debate among people? I figured Pedro was about as much of a slam dunk as you could get for pitchers.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I would hope so. Is there a debate among people? I figured Pedro was about as much of a slam dunk as you could get for pitchers.

I don't think so, next year isn't really a strong year for first timers. Him, Randy Johnson, & John Smoltz are the headliners.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Pedro Martinez was one of the most incredibly dominant pitchers I've ever seen. I hated him as a Phillies fan (until 2009) but I always respected the guy.

 

[Hiesenberg]

I would hope so. Is there a debate among people? I figured Pedro was about as much of a slam dunk as you could get for pitchers.

I agree with that, and Halladay's numbers (while behind Pedro's) are pretty close. If Martinez gets in, I think Halladay has a strong case as well.

 

[cheesesteakarmor]

I would say yea. I believe there are 57 SP's in the Hall.

Among pitchers with 2000 IP, Halladay is:

20th all time in ERA+
10th in K/BB
34th or 40th in WAR (Depending on if you use FG or BR WAR)
40th in WAR for his peak 7 years
20th in FIP (since 1975)
3rd in xFIP (since 1975)
7th in HR/9 (since 95, steroid era)

He pitched well enough to win the Cy Young in 4 seasons.

He had more complete games in his career than any other team had since he entered the league.

He lead the league in WAR during his career.

He got to 2000 strikeouts and 200 wins. Most of those wins on a bad team.

I'd say he stacks up around average to maybe a little below for HOF pitchers, but he also pitched in the steroid era, so that's a pretty great accomplishment.

I think the CG stat puts him over the top. So many writers today lament the specialization of pitchers, and Roy was very much a throwback in that respect.

 

[zarley zelepukin]

Giles?

I believe he would be in the bigs or knocking on the door if he didn't get hurt last year.

I've seen more love for Giles coming from fans than scouts, but I know there are people out there who like him. I'm not really one of them. He's got the fastball but his secondary stuff still needs work and his control stinks. He's a 23 year old reliever who struggled in Hi-A.

As for Halladay, I think he's got to make it. Since 1995, he's got the same adjusted ERA as Maddux, Smoltz and Schilling. The only guys ahead of him are either still early in their careers (Hisashi Iwakuma, Chris Sale and Clayton Kershaw), easy choices for HOF (Pedro #1, Randy Johnson, Clemens), guys who could have gone in but got hurt (Brandon Webb and Johan Santana), and then also Kevin Brown who was apparently a lot better than I thought. And really what is pitching about if not run prevention?

So in short, you could make a good case that Halladay was the best pitcher in the game over the course of his career. Seems like an easy choice.

 

[zarley zelepukin]

Heres another question, does Pedro Martinez get in?

I would hope so. Is there a debate among people? I figured Pedro was about as much of a slam dunk as you could get for pitchers.

If Sandy Koufax got in basically for an incredibly dominant 6 year stretch, Pedro should get in for his even more dominant 11 year stretch from 94-05. If you take the best 7 years of that stretch, it's pretty ridiculous. Koufax' ERA+ from 61-66 was 151. Pedro's ERA+ from 97-03 was 213(!!!!). He also won 3 CY Youngs in that time, had 2 second place finishes and a 3rd place finish.

 

[Protest]

Pedro has the highest ERA+ of all time.

 

[Broad Street Elite]

Pedro and Halladay are both HOFers to me.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I've seen more love for Giles coming from fans than scouts, but I know there are people out there who like him. I'm not really one of them. He's got the fastball but his secondary stuff still needs work and his control stinks. He's a 23 year old reliever who struggled in Hi-A.

Keith Law had him at #9 in the org prior to last season. He said he could move very quick as power arm and he liked his slider. He's usually pretty particular when it comes to ranking prospects as far as positional value goes. So with Giles being a reliever, I saw that as a very optimistic ranking even if the system wasn't great.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Apparently Bill Conlin died.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Apparently Bill Conlin died.

Like 3 days ago

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Like 3 days ago

I'm not up on my ex-writer alledged pedophiles apparently

 

[Protest]

I was actually going to mention Conlin when I was talking about old baseball HOF voters, had no idea he was dead.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I'm not up on my ex-writer alledged pedophiles apparently

The only reason I knew because I read a story somewhere about how some of the older writers act like moralists & his story was used as an example of how hypocritical they were & it mentioned how he died within the last few days other wise I would have had no idea.

 

[Chinatown88]

Ramona Shelburne ‏@ramonashelburne 7m

The Dodgers and Clayton Kershaw have agreed on a seven year, $215 million contract, sources have told ESPN. Out after five

Well at least its not the $300 million that some reported. Still can't believe he's only 25.

 

[flyersguy33*]

Well at least its not the $300 million that some reported. Still can't believe he's only 25.

Has a chance to opt out in 5 years and cash in again. This guy is made.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I hear phillies and Comcast SportsNet close to naming either former Phils SS Kevin Stocker or Doug Glanville as TV Color analyst.2 leaders

Phils turned down by john kruk and brad lidge, but stocker and glanville I hear are from runners for tv analyst job.

Source: Howard Eskin @howardeskin

Disregard the terrible spelling/grammar, Howie's a moron.

 

[flyguy]

Source: Howard Eskin @howardeskin

Disregard the terrible spelling/grammar, Howie's a moron.

Not surprised Kruker turned it down. Not sure why Lidge would so soon after retiring, must have something else lined up.

I like what I've seen from Glanville on ESPN. I haven't seen or heard (radio) Stocker do anything media related.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Not surprised Kruker turned it down. Not sure why Lidge would so soon after retiring, must have something else lined up.

I like what I've seen from Glanville on ESPN. I haven't seen or heard Stocker do anything media related.

Kruk & Glanville were talked about around here when Wheeler & Sarge got the axe. I'm not surprised by Kruk, he's one of the faces of their coverage team on espn. Glanville isn't though, he's more of a secondary guy for them so I'm not too surprised by his interest.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Not surprised Kruker turned it down. Not sure why Lidge would so soon after retiring, must have something else lined up.

It's a huge commitment. You're committing just as much time as the players. Seven months a year, every day, road trips, etc. The guy just retired I'm sure he wants to spend some time with his family. I think he was going to school as well.