OT: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): LeSean McCoy Traded To Buffalo For Kiko Alonso

[DrinkFightFlyers]

are u kidding me with this rg3 bs. He is going to be out of the nfl soon enough. The shanahans did not draft him, snider did. THey then ran the easiest 1 read offense you could ever imagine and played ultra consveratively.

Robert had the lowest pass attempts over 10 yards of any starter ever, since that stat has been followed. Its not even close either. RG3 had an inflated completion percentage because of the insane amount of wr screens and short dump off the skins ran.

We shall see...

But you and I know that Mariota is no sure thing. You dont have to make the trade.

I think you do. We know what Foles is...an average QB with little no mobility. There are literally no other options at QB besides Foles, aside from much, much, much bigger unknowns in the draft. If you truly believe (you meaning the Eagles, not you personally) that Mariota is a franchise QB, you would be stupid not to do everything you can to get him. It is hands-down the most important position in any sports, and truly elite franchise QBs are rare to say the lease. It is definitely a risk, and a big one at that, but if you don't take it, you know you aren't getting a franchise QB for at least another year, but probably another 4-5 years, as these guys don't come around too often.

There is a risk in pulling the trigger, but also a risk in standing pat (hell, not really a risk but a certainty). You pull the trigger and you wind up with a franchise QB, a nothing, or just another average Joe. You don't pull the trigger and you have a middle of the road at best QB for at least one more year.

 

[achdumeingute]

We don't know if Foles is 2013 Foles or 2014 Foles.

That was the biggest dissapointment about last season.

MM is just as big of a ?. If we do it, dude is likely going to struggle for 2 years, as that's just what rookie qbs do
If the team is good enough for him to be anything in 2017...I hope the city hasn't eaten him alive by then.

after paying the price we have to pay, do you think the media in Philly will give this kid time to develop?

 

[Halladay]

It's going to be a long 2 moths discussing this.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

We don't know if Foles is 2013 Foles or 2014 Foles.

That was the biggest dissapointment about last season.

We know he is not going to be 2013 Foles. 2013 Nick Foles was a Hall of Famer for part of a season. Those numbers are not realistic. At best he's going to be somewhere in between, and that doesn't seem likely given how he played last season and his rookie year.

MM is just as big of a ?. If we do it, dude is likely going to struggle for 2 years, as that's just what rookie qbs do
If the team is good enough for him to be anything in 2017...I hope the city hasn't eaten him alive by then.

after paying the price we have to pay, do you think the media in Philly will give this kid time to develop?

I don't think the 2-year thing is an issue. I think he'll struggle his first year (though not struggle in a Blaine Gabbert way), but if he is struggling in year two, he's not going to be anything special anyway. This isn't the NHL or the MLB. Impact QBs make an impact early on. Like I said, the last two supposedly Elite QBs were Luck and RG3 and they both took their teams to the playoffs their first years. I know you don't seem to think RG3 had anything to do with that, but he very clearly did. Before that Joe Flacco took his team to the playoffs in his first year. Aaron Rodgers didn't take his team to the playoffs, but in his first year as a starter he put up very good numbers (though he is a bit of an outlier since he sat on the bench for a couple years). If you are going to be a good QB in this league, you'll be ok form the get-go. Not necessarily elite right off the bat, but you will be able to handle your business.

Now, that is not to say that Mariota won't flop, but if he is going to be a good QB, I don't think we will have to sit through 1-2 years of garbage QB play. I think if he's going to be good he'll be good right away (and again, not elite, not a pro-bowler, not playoffs first year guaranteed...just good).

Also, I read somewhere, I think Deadspin, that this argument is statistically proven. I believe it was about Cam Newton and how he will not be any better than he currently (when the article was written) was. Basically the thrust of the article was elite QBs are elite within the first two years. I couldn't find it but I will continue to look and post it if I do find it.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

But you and I know that Mariota is no sure thing. You dont have to make the trade.

You are correct in that. He isn't a sure thing. But I trust Kelly and his player evaluation when it comes to Mariota. If Kelly deems that Mariota is a player worth going up to get, then he's a player worth going up to get.

What do you suggest the Eagles do then if they don't get Mariota and stick with Foles and he's average/below average like he was last year? He certainly could be good again but at this point i'm personally not comfortable giving Foles a big contract, which is what it's going to take next year. I don't want to be stuck with a Andy Dalton type contract.

We don't know if Foles is 2013 Foles or 2014 Foles.

That was the biggest dissapointment about last season.

MM is just as big of a ?. If we do it, dude is likely going to struggle for 2 years, as that's just what rookie qbs do
If the team is good enough for him to be anything in 2017...I hope the city hasn't eaten him alive by then.

after paying the price we have to pay, do you think the media in Philly will give this kid time to develop?

Mariota is a "if" but it's about time Kelly had a chance to make his mark outside of cutting players. He isn't as big of an if as Foles. If you stick with Foles and he continues to be average, Kelly is essentially up the creek without a paddle. Like I said they're going into his fourth year and still don't have a QB. You aren't giving a coach, who I believe, at least, is a damn good coach, a chance to fully do what he wants to do. He's handcuffed.

So what if Mariota struggles, if in the end he turns it around and becomes the player that people believe he can be? Who cares if the Philly media eats him alive. They're not the judge and executioner.

Most rookie QB's struggle because they come into pro offenses that they're not used to and of course the faster defensive players and how the game moves faster. Kelly's system is tailored for the easy pass that will get yards every time. A QB of quality who knows the system won't struggle as much as a normal QB would.

It's going to be a long 2 moths discussing this.

It's going to be a long two months worrying about what your new username is going to be.

 

[achdumeingute]

You are correct in that. He isn't a sure thing. But I trust Kelly and his player evaluation when it comes to Mariota. If Kelly deems that Mariota is a player worth going up to get, then he's a player worth going up to get.

What do you suggest the Eagles do then if they don't get Mariota and stick with Foles and he's average/below average like he was last year? He certainly could be good again but at this point i'm personally not comfortable giving Foles a big contract, which is what it's going to take next year. I don't want to be stuck with a Andy Dalton type contract.



Mariota is a "if" but it's about time Kelly had a chance to make his mark outside of cutting players. He isn't as big of an if as Foles. If you stick with Foles and he continues to be average, Kelly is essentially up the creek without a paddle. Like I said they're going into his fourth year and still don't have a QB. You aren't giving a coach, who I believe, at least, is a damn good coach, a chance to fully do what he wants to do. He's handcuffed.

So what if Mariota struggles, if in the end he turns it around and becomes the player that people believe he can be? Who cares if the Philly media eats him alive. They're not the judge and executioner.

Most rookie QB's struggle because they come into pro offenses that they're not used to and of course the faster defensive players and how the game moves faster. Kelly's system is tailored for the easy pass that will get yards every time. A QB of quality who knows the system won't struggle as much as a normal QB would.



It's going to be a long two months worrying about what your new username is going to be.

I get that, I'm OK with that. Let Kelly run the show how he wants...all valid points.

I just don't see the kind of patience this is going to require around here. and the media does have an impact. They create divisions on the team environment without a doubt.

Regardless of the system, NFL defenses are going to throw things at this guy with a speed aND talent level he has not seen.

He played like crud vs OS on the biggest stage...NFL will be worse pressure.

 

[jvr2128]

maclin isnt re-signing in philly im hearing.

first Chip Kelly move i have disagreed with

 

[Hiesenberg]

Next year could be scary.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

maclin isnt re-signing in philly im hearing.

first Chip Kelly move i have disagreed with

Yeah, that is a bad move, especially given all the cap space the Eagles have. No reason to let him go. Unless of course...that rumored Mike Evans deal is happening. Then I am ok with it.

 

[JoemAvs]

You are correct in that. He isn't a sure thing. But I trust Kelly and his player evaluation when it comes to Mariota. If Kelly deems that Mariota is a player worth going up to get, then he's a player worth going up to get.

What do you suggest the Eagles do then if they don't get Mariota and stick with Foles and he's average/below average like he was last year? He certainly could be good again but at this point i'm personally not comfortable giving Foles a big contract, which is what it's going to take next year. I don't want to be stuck with a Andy Dalton type contract.

Sorry I shorted your post a bit.

I don't trust Kelly when it comes to Mariota. At all.
I am a huge Chip Kelly fan and I wanted him badly from the start.
I also have liked every move he made this offseason (although I really would have liked a new D-Coordinator ).

But I absolutely do not trust him on Mariota.
Everything I read from Kelly about Mariota sounds like a teenage girl having a crush on someone.
Mariota is not Peyton Manning. Chip has never coached Peyton Manning.

We have to hope that Chips offense is really as great as advertised and that Mariota will be that perfect fit everyone keeps gushing about.

But if the offense is really that great, we might be way better off with a guy like Foles running it and a plethora of picks to shore up the rest of our roster. After all you seldom win a Superbowl on offense.
Mariota has yet to prove that he can put up a (partial) season like Foles did in 2013.


There is a reason why this scenario is even possible.
Teams are not sold on Mariota being a NFL QB. At all.
Otherwise the Eagles wouldn't have a chance at getting him.

Those teams all have their own scouting staff and are all professionals. Mariota is no Andrew Luck.
Indy had Peyton Manning and would have laughed at Washingtons offer.

He might not even be a RGIII who only was available because STL had no choice but to go with Bradford with his insane contract.

I mean. Tennessee would rather go with Mettenberger, the Jets with Geno Smith, the Raiders with Carr, the Jags with Bortles than bet their future on Mariota from the looks of it. He is a huge questionmark at this point. It is that simple. And it looks like we are about to gamble 3 1sts, a somewhat decent young starting QB, 3 2nd++ on that guy.

The Eagles just have to hope or pray that Mariota is really that perfect fit for this NFL (!)- offense.

Otherwise we will be screwed beyond belief, fire Chip and watch him win a Superbowl with someone else.


I also can't wait until Chip runs out of Oregon players he has coached in the draft.I hope they all graduate a year early. He really has a bias for them (see Hart last year) and I hope that it does not screw up our talent evaluation.

 

[sa cyred]

I will say just because a few teams might not think he is franchise worthy doesnt mean he isnt. There could be 13 teams that think he is.

 

[Jtown]

maclin isnt re-signing in philly im hearing.

first Chip Kelly move i have disagreed with

where did you hear that?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

If Chip pays a premium for Mariota & fails I don't think you have to worry about him winning Super Bowl elsewhere as I think it would be really tough for him to land another NFL gig at least not for a long time.

 

[JoemAvs]

If Chip pays a premium for Mariota & fails I don't think you have to worry about him winning Super Bowl elsewhere as I think it would be really tough for him to land another NFL gig at least not for a long time.

Was talking about Chip not Mariota. And I am pretty sure that he would get another Gig easily. Just without personnel control.

If Mariota busts, Chip won't survive more than another 2-3 years in Philly. So he would have plenty of time to win the Superbowl somewhere else.


@sa cryed:
Obviously.
I am just saying that people might be a bit too certain of Mariota in comparison to how other teams feel about him.

None of them would have even thought about passing on Luck.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Was talking about Chip not Mariota. And I am pretty sure that he would get another Gig easily. Just without personnel control.

If Mariota busts, Chip won't survive more than another 2-3 years in Philly. So he would have plenty of time to win the Superbowl somewhere else.

I don't think so if he failed with a QB who was supposed to be tailor made for his offense than the offense itself kind of loses it's luster which would be a reflection on Kelly.

I still don't think people around the league are totally on board with Kelly as a coach & he doesn't have that NFL pedigree to where I think teams would turn around & offer him job right away coming off a failure.

 

[FLYguy3911]

For the Bovada bet do the Eagles have the draft Mariota or just acquire him? Because technically the Giants didn't draft Eli.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

For the Bovada bet do the Eagles have the draft Mariota or just acquire him? Because technically the Giants didn't draft Eli.

Will he be on the Eagles roster for game one of the regular season.

 

[Flyotes]

maclin isnt re-signing in philly im hearing.

first Chip Kelly move i have disagreed with

That's okay. There are ways of replacing him.

 

[Mgkibbles]

If Maclin isn't on the roster next year, it's not the end of the world. Maclin is a good receiver, but keep in mind up until last season he produced like a fringe 1A - 2 receiver. So the Eagles not wanting to pay him top WR dollars is understandable. Chip's offense has shown two years straight that the #1 WR will have inflated stats - both D-Jax and Maclin had career years.

Jordan Matthews also had a pretty terrific second half to last year. I could easily see him stepping into the lead role next year. (Final 8 games - 36 rec - 559 yards - 5 tds)

And if the Eagles don't think Matthews is ready to be, or never will be a #1, this could give more validity to that Eagles - Bucs rumor floating around involving Mike Evans, because there aren't a lot of FA receivers I'd be really excited about.

 

[Sniped]

If Maclin isn't on the roster next year, it's not the end of the world. Maclin is a good receiver, but keep in mind up until last season he produced like a fringe 1A - 2 receiver. So the Eagles not wanting to pay him top WR dollars is understandable. Chip's offense has shown two years straight that the #1 WR will have inflated stats - both D-Jax and Maclin had career years.

Jordan Matthews also had a pretty terrific second half to last year. I could easily see him stepping into the lead role next year. (Final 8 games - 36 rec - 559 yards - 5 tds)

And if the Eagles don't think Matthews is ready to be, or never will be a #1, this could give more validity to that Eagles - Bucs rumor floating around involving Mike Evans, because there aren't a lot of FA receivers I'd be really excited about.

Why on earth would the Bucs trade Mike Evans?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Why on earth would the Bucs trade Mike Evans?

There was rumor going around that the Bucs would trade Evans & the 1st overall pick for like all of the Eagles high draft picks for the next three drafts.

Edit: Here's the OP

This is preposterous, but I felt the need to share. Mikey Miss just read an email from someone he knows with a "source", the trade is as follows and may be announced as early as March 6th. (for unsaid reasons)

Nick Foles +
2015 1, 2 and 3 +
2016 1, 2 and 3 +
2017 1 and 2

for

Tampa's 1st overall and WR Mike Evans


LMAO.

 

[Halladay]

The more I think, the more I dont see there is any reason to believe the Jets stick with Smith another year. I watched a game last year where he threw 3 interceptions on 3 consecutive attempts. That is a special kind of terrible.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

The more I think, the more I dont see there is any reason to believe the Jets stick with Smith another year. I watched a game last year where he threw 3 interceptions on 3 consecutive attempts. That is a special kind of terrible.

You're the opposite of me. The more I think about things the more I think it's going to happen haha.

 

[Halladay]

You're the opposite of me. The more I think about things the more I think it's going to happen haha.

They are the Jets, but it would be really dumb .

 

[Broad Street Elite]

Why do I get the sense that Chip Kelly is going to make his best attempt at being Kevin Costner's character from Draft Day.