Proposal: PHI-NSH-BUF 3-way

[Bjornar Moxnes]

and Ristos isnt? 45pt guy on a crap team, his numbers will approach Ghosts on a good team, with more snarl.

Risto is a drag on his team's possession numbers and eye test speaking looks lost defensively. Gostisbehere isn't as good defensively as Flyers fans say, but he's much better than Risto in that regard and generates offense better than Risto.

 

[Sasso09]

lol don't know why philly fans are complaining

Arvidsson > TK
Risto > Ghost

a Provorov-Risto pairing would be insane. also Arvy is better than TK

Everything you said is incorrect

 

[Sasso09]

Please explain how Arvidsson and Konecny are even as players currently.

Second half of last season Konecny scored 37 points In 42 games .88 PPG good for a 72 point season. He's continuing to evolve.

I'd put a healthy wager on Konecny out scoring Arvidsson this upcoming season

 

[Mortiest Morty]

Second half of last season Konecny scored 37 points In 42 games .88 PPG good for a 72 point season. He's continuing to evolve.

I'd put a healthy wager on Konecny out scoring Arvidsson this upcoming season

Neat. From January 9th to the end of the season, Arvidsson scored 36 points in 37 games. .97 PPG, good for an 80 point season.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Value wise Konecny holds more.

They're even as players currently, Konecny is 4 years younger on ELC and has much higher ceiling.

So how are they even. Please explain

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Arvi 61 points 29 goals 32 assists while playing pk and in all situations. Konecny 47 points 24 goals 23 assists. Please explain how that is even. Konecny plays on the top line in Philly with 2 almost point per game players. How are these 2 even right now. And I'm not talking about age or potential. How is konecny better than arvi right now? If we had konecny and arvi, konecny would be on our 2nd line. Just saying.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

summer doldrumz shake shake shake it up...who wins, who loses, tell me how terrible this is.

PHI: RD Rasmus Ristolainen & LW/RW Viktor Arvidsson
NSH: RD Shayne Gostisbehere & C/RW Samson Reinhart
BUF: RD Ryan Ellis & LW/RW Travis Konecny + Cap Dump Jori Lehtera

Risto = Ellis = Ghost. You can make an argument for all of them in different scenarios.

Age. Risto>Ghost>Ellis
Cap. Ghost>Risto>Ellis (assuming Ellis is going to get a big payday)
Defense. Ellis>Risto>Ghost
Offense. Ghost>Risto>Ellis

Reinhart>Arvidsson>>>>>Konecny (with Lehtera attached to him)


Assuming this trade goes down and not playing the "We say no" game.

Nashville wins. Philly next. Sabres get hosed. Konecny is awesome, but have to deal with another crap year wasting Lehtera and on the hook for paying Ellis.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

Risto = Ellis = Ghost. You can make an argument for all of them in different scenarios.

Age. Risto>Ghost>Ellis
Cap. Ghost>Risto>Ellis (assuming Ellis is going to get a big payday)
Defense. Ellis>Risto>Ghost
Offense. Ghost>Risto>Ellis

Reinhart>Arvidsson>>>>>Konecny (with Lehtera attached to him)


Assuming this trade goes down and not playing the "We say no" game.

Nashville wins. Philly next. Sabres get hosed. Konecny is awesome, but have to deal with another crap year wasting Lehtera and on the hook for paying Ellis.

The three defenseman are not even, Ristolainen is definitely the worst of the bunch. And how is Reinhart better than Arvidsson or even more valuable? Reinhart is only 2.5 years younger than Arvidsson, they were actually drafted the exact same year and Arvidsson is clearly a superior player today. Not to mention the sweetheart contract for Arvidsson and Reinhart is currently a restricted free agent. You're way off here

 

[Starat327]

The three defenseman are not even, Ristolainen is definitely the worst of the bunch. And how is Reinhart better than Arvidsson or even more valuable? Reinhart is only 2.5 years younger than Arvidsson, they were actually drafted the exact same year and Arvidsson is clearly a superior player today. Not to mention the sweetheart contract for Arvidsson and Reinhart is currently a restricted free agent. You're way off here

It's a theme for this thread.

 

[krt88nc]

I just don’t get it! What’s the reasoning here?

 

[FlyTimmo]

So how are they even. Please explain

Konecny: 2.27 P/60, -1.24 Rel CF%, 0.98 Rel xGF%, 101.97 PDO, 47.33 ZSR
Arvidsson: 2.24 P/60, -0.62 Rel CF%, -4.27 Rel xGF%, 102.61 PDO, 55.88 ZSR

They are fairly even right now. Konecny being 4 years younger makes him more valuable.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Risto = Ellis = Ghost. You can make an argument for all of them in different scenarios.

Age. Risto>Ghost>Ellis
Cap. Ghost>Risto>Ellis (assuming Ellis is going to get a big payday)
Defense. Ellis>Risto>Ghost
Offense. Ghost>Risto>Ellis

Reinhart>Arvidsson>>>>>Konecny (with Lehtera attached to him)


Assuming this trade goes down and not playing the "We say no" game.

Nashville wins. Philly next. Sabres get hosed. Konecny is awesome, but have to deal with another crap year wasting Lehtera and on the hook for paying Ellis.

Y I K E S

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

Risto is a drag on his team's possession numbers and eye test speaking looks lost defensively. Gostisbehere isn't as good defensively as Flyers fans say, but he's much better than Risto in that regard and generates offense better than Risto.

Lmao. Eye test huh? From the 2 games a year you watch him. Risto looks lost defensively? What a bunch of BS.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Anyone here actually analyze a player outside of going to NHL.com stats? Reinhart and Ristolainen are getting criminally underrated because of the garbage team they played on. Reminds me a ton of MacKinnon and any Avs player for that matter last season.

The stat watchers saying Arviddson is better than Reinhart have their Presidents Trophy goggles on. Swap the two and ask yourself if their point totals would be the same. Reinhart potentially playing Center increases his value immesely as well over Arvidsson.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

Anyone here actually analyze a player outside of going to NHL.com stats? Reinhart and Ristolainen are getting criminally underrated because of the garbage team they played on. Reminds me a ton of MacKinnon and any Avs player for that matter last season.

The stat watchers saying Arviddson is better than Reinhart have their Presidents Trophy goggles on. Swap the two and ask yourself if their point totals would be the same. Reinhart potentially playing Center increases his value immesely as well over Arvidsson.

1 Preds player outscored Arvidsson this year. Zero Preds outscored Arvidsson in 16-17. He's not mooching off of linemates. And the whole "President's Trophy goggles" thing might work better if Reinhart didn't play with either Eichel or O'Reilly all year at even strength and with both on the PP. The real issue is that you have your Buffalo Sabres goggles and former 2nd overall pick goggles on.

"Potentially playing center" is nice, let me know if he ever actually does so. You can even disregard the point totals, just watch the two of them play and then try to argue that Reinhart is better. It's really not even close at all.

 

[Starat327]

Ah yes, more 'potential' arguments, as though it doesnt apply to anyone else in the thread. Only certain players can improve I guess.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Anyone here actually analyze a player outside of going to NHL.com stats? Reinhart and Ristolainen are getting criminally underrated because of the garbage team they played on. Reminds me a ton of MacKinnon and any Avs player for that matter last season.

The stat watchers saying Arviddson is better than Reinhart have their Presidents Trophy goggles on. Swap the two and ask yourself if their point totals would be the same. Reinhart potentially playing Center increases his value immesely as well over Arvidsson.

Playing on the worst team in the league isn't totally a negative. On Philly, Reinhart will not get significant powerplay time. And be in a lesser role. Same thing applies to Risto. He isn't a better powerplay defenseman than Gostisbehere and wouldn't be asked to play 26 minutes a night like he does in Buffalo.

 

[Starat327]

Playing on the worst team in the league isn't totally a negative. On Philly, Reinhart will not get significant powerplay time. And be in a lesser role. Same thing applies to Risto. He isn't a better powerplay defenseman than Gostisbehere and wouldn't be asked to play 26 minutes a night like he does in Buffalo.

You leave your logic out of this. We arent interested in it here.

 

[Sabreality]

Playing on the worst team in the league isn't totally a negative. On Philly, Reinhart will not get significant powerplay time. And be in a lesser role. Same thing applies to Risto. He isn't a better powerplay defenseman than Gostisbehere and wouldn't be asked to play 26 minutes a night like he does in Buffalo.

yeah and it works both ways, put Ghost on Buffalo playing that role and minutes and he absolutely gets caved in, probably worse than Risto. And Risto is 5th in the NHL for Dmen on the PP the last 3 years, saying he isnt close to Ghost on the PP is silly. Sabres 5o5 scoring was awful too, Ristos numbers there likely go up to on Philly. People act like theyd be storming the castle with pitchforks if this trade went down, I think everybody would actually be pleasantly surprised with the outcomes.

 

[Bob Clarke Fan Club]

The value is bad, and the trade isnt s good fit, but it's not "let's go over-hyperbolic" bad.

It's quite bad, obviously I exaggerated. Kudo's to you for picking up on that.

 

[FlyTimmo]

yeah and it works both ways, put Ghost on Buffalo playing that role and minutes and he absolutely gets caved in, probably worse than Risto. And Risto is 5th in the NHL for Dmen on the PP the last 3 years, saying he isnt close to Ghost on the PP is silly. Sabres 5o5 scoring was awful too, Ristos numbers there likely go up to on Philly. People act like theyd be storming the castle with pitchforks if this trade went down, I think everybody would actually be pleasantly surprised with the outcomes.

Yeah, well we don't know. Gostisbehere being bad defensively is a myth. What Gostisbehere isn't great at is physically matching up with a forward in front of the net, otherwise he is very solid defensively. In the regular season I wouldn't want Gostisbehere playing 26 minutes a night, and I wouldn't want Risto doing that either. As for the PP, Risto is 5th, Ghost is 2nd. This year, the Philly powerplay only scored 6 more goals than the Sabres PP, so it is fairly comparable. Gostisbehere is better. In Philly, Risto wouldn't be playing 26 minutes a night like he does on Buffalo. He might score at a slightly higher rate at 5v5, but it should be balanced out by playing fewer minutes.

And as for your final comment, I guarantee you Philly would be disappointed. Clear downgrade on D and they trade a 21 year old winger for a 25 year old winger, when they are currently very comparable in skill level.

 

[Hockeypete49]

summer doldrumz shake shake shake it up...who wins, who loses, tell me how terrible this is.

PHI: RD Rasmus Ristolainen & LW/RW Viktor Arvidsson. AND A TUBE OF LUBE!
NSH: RD Shayne Gostisbehere & C/RW Samson Reinhart
BUF: RD Ryan Ellis & LW/RW Travis Konecny + Cap Dump Jori Lehtera

April 1st was awhile ago.

 

[Rebels57]

This is histerically bad for the Flyers

 

[Starat327]

yeah and it works both ways, put Ghost on Buffalo playing that role and minutes and he absolutely gets caved in, probably worse than Risto. And Risto is 5th in the NHL for Dmen on the PP the last 3 years, saying he isnt close to Ghost on the PP is silly. Sabres 5o5 scoring was awful too, Ristos numbers there likely go up to on Philly. People act like theyd be storming the castle with pitchforks if this trade went down, I think everybody would actually be pleasantly surprised with the outcomes.

Wed be storming the castle. Again, potential is great. And Risto has a lot of it. But why are we trading a Guaranteed thing for a maybe when we arent in rebuild mode? Ghost works. We know that. Konecny works, and has a ton of potential himself.

For a trade like this to make sense, the potential of the improvement has to be greater than the sum of the total loss - konecnys potential, cap space, team control, etc. In this case, I dont think many would agree the 'potential' of Risto over the 'Known' of Ghost makes up for it before you even factor in everything else.

The only surprise flyers fans would feel is the fact that we traded one of the most productive D men in the NHL and broke up our top pairing that was one of the best in thr NHL. I assure you, that wouldn't be 'pleasant'.

 

[paragon]

Second half of last season Konecny scored 37 points In 42 games .88 PPG good for a 72 point season. He's continuing to evolve.

I'd put a healthy wager on Konecny out scoring Arvidsson this upcoming season

If Konecny is actually as good as you think he is, he's gonna have a higher cap hit than Arvidsson in a year, so that makes his ELC status pretty meaningless in the big picture.