Proposal: PHI-NSH-BUF 3-way
- Thread starter Sabreality
- Start date
TheKingPin
Registered User
The league seems to take notice of a player a year late. In keeping with that, it appears it will take another year to take note of ghost. He had an outstanding year. He may be one of the more valuable dmen in the league. Teams game for him a lot. He is a focus of a team with high end producers.
Konecny has yet to reach his max pts. He’s an amazing player. Mother f***er too.
Konecny has yet to reach his max pts. He’s an amazing player. Mother f***er too.
John Eichel da GOAT
Registered User
- Oct 7, 2008
- 6,486
- 2,097
You're not wrong on the offensive side of Ghost, but defensively he is far from the top. That is where Ellis and Risto pass him as an overall dman. Can that side of his game improve? Of course. Like Karlsson, it can improve dramatically over the course of 2-3 seasons.
TheKingPin
Registered User
I’m not going to say ghost is THE guy I want out there against the top lines. I will say that if he has another year like this last one, I would be happy to have him out there when called on. He really uses his stick and smarts to overcome the size issue. I would say that currently he is ahead of Risto who is of course a very good player but is actually more so tracking as a PP guy.
Ghost’s defensive abilities in his own zone might still need some work, but i don’t feel silly saying he might be one of the best defenders on the transition/in the neutral zone right now. He makes incredible reads and jumps on plays as good as anyone I’ve watched in that regard.
Philadelphia Ducks
Win it for Ed
Philadelphia Ducks
Win it for Ed
Yea you're right, I overreacted there, Arv. is better currently. I do think Konecny will become better than him in a couple years though.
Hilarious how you say it's like you Avs fans and compare a top 2 dman in EK to Barrie and you think that comparison with Ghost and Risto is comparable to that one. Great one. Get a clue.
It's not Philly homerism. Sure I'd consider Ghost for EK as well depending on what the other pieces are. I am not considering Ghost for Risto.
Sure there is potential that Risto is better than he is with his minutes reduced but that's not an absolute. He's only 2 years younger. And Ghost is better right now imo and the swap is not worth it. Ghost also could be better if the Flyers didn't have one of the worst coaches in the league too. Ghost and Provy have had to suffer with carrying scrubs like Amac, Manning and Hagg. Once we get more depth from Myers and Sanheim, then we get a batter picture of how they are.
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La Cosa Nostra
Caporegime
- Jun 25, 2009
- 14,075
- 2,336
You're right it's higher. What, is Ghosts value closer to Dahlin instead ?
Risto is 1 and 1/2 years younger, plays 26+ minutes a night , has literally the worst blue line in the league to carry and is bigger, stronger, tougher, and better defensively. Not to mention Ghost gets 62.5% ozs throughout his careee compared to 45.5% for Risto. That's a massive role differential. You think Ghost can play 26 minutes a night with absolute trash D partners and still be as productive? Or that if the roles were reversed that Risto wouldn't replicate or out perform Ghost? If this was brought up last summer it would have been laughed at as Risto outscored Ghost even though Ghost got an absurd 68.8% ozs and was a -21 on a much better team. He was extremely sheltered until this past season. Ironically this past season, Ghost, Giroux and Couturier literally nearly doubled their production from 16-17. So we will see if that can be sustained. In Couts and Ghosts case, I am willing to Bet whatever that both will endure a decrease in scoring. Quite a bit too I predict.
I love how it's blasphemous to think the dman drafted #8th overall in an elite draft who scored the WJC golden goal and was projected to be a #1D is better then Ghost. Like I said, a players value goes beyond the most recent season. A year ago from today it was laughable to say Ghost was worth way more then Risto after Risto literally was better in every facet of the game in 16-17.When Ghost is given 26 mins a night and a terrible team around him and can match the production and minutes that Risto does then we can talk. Fact is, even after a 65 point season he still only has 18 more points compared to Risto over the last 2 years combined. Mind you the Flyers have 70 more goals then the past 2 seasons which is quite a bit. And to show how it can be manipulated, from 15-17 Risto outscored Ghost by a point even though Risto played on 2 bottom 8 teams those 2 years.
It will be rectified this season. Risto is a damn good dman but he would be better as a #2 getting 23-24 mins a night max, not 26:30+ a game. With Dahlin now here, Risto will show he is a top flight dman once he has Dahlin a generational dman on the team. Risto has had no other competent top 4 D as a teammate until Scandella was brought in and he's more of a #3/4. And it's quite sad that Marco Scandella and Jake McCabe were the only other somewhat decent D partners. And like I said Scandella is more a #3/4 and McCabe is a #4/5. In other words Risto has had trash to play with and that totally impacted his D #s. What did people expect from a 26 min a night dman on a terrible hockey team ? Thanks hockey gods for the lotto luck that got us the best D prospect since Denis Potvin and the 3rd best prospect since Eric Lindros just behind Crosby and McDavid. Now that Risto has a HoF type talent likely as his future long term D partner Risto is going to have far better analytical stats and will put up 50+ points now that the Sabres won't struggle anymore to reach 200 GF a season.
Ghosts a great player though, but not a franchise #1 D. Risto isn't a franchise #1 D either but he fits the Bill Far more then Ghost. Sub 6 foot dmen usually aren't the healthiest nor the most durable dmen.
BritainStix
F**k Cutter Gauthier
- Oct 20, 2016
- 6,614
- 9,675
Its cute that throughout that whole passage of text you forgot that Ghost has been saddled with Hagg and Andrew Macdonald his whole career
jay caufield forhead
Registered User
the value is close for all maybe a pick added on some ends. I dont think any of the teams mess with what they have to be honest.
You're right it's higher. What, is Ghosts value closer to Dahlin instead ?
Risto is 1 and 1/2 years younger, plays 26+ minutes a night , has literally the worst blue line in the league to carry and is bigger, stronger, tougher, and better defensively. Not to mention Ghost gets 62.5% ozs throughout his careee compared to 45.5% for Risto. That's a massive role differential. You think Ghost can play 26 minutes a night with absolute trash D partners and still be as productive? Or that if the roles were reversed that Risto wouldn't replicate or out perform Ghost? If this was brought up last summer it would have been laughed at as Risto outscored Ghost even though Ghost got an absurd 68.8% ozs and was a -21 on a much better team. He was extremely sheltered until this past season. Ironically this past season, Ghost, Giroux and Couturier literally nearly doubled their production from 16-17. So we will see if that can be sustained. In Couts and Ghosts case, I am willing to Bet whatever that both will endure a decrease in scoring. Quite a bit too I predict.
I love how it's blasphemous to think the dman drafted #8th overall in an elite draft who scored the WJC golden goal and was projected to be a #1D is better then Ghost. Like I said, a players value goes beyond the most recent season. A year ago from today it was laughable to say Ghost was worth way more then Risto after Risto literally was better in every facet of the game in 16-17.When Ghost is given 26 mins a night and a terrible team around him and can match the production and minutes that Risto does then we can talk. Fact is, even after a 65 point season he still only has 18 more points compared to Risto over the last 2 years combined. Mind you the Flyers have 70 more goals then the past 2 seasons which is quite a bit. And to show how it can be manipulated, from 15-17 Risto outscored Ghost by a point even though Risto played on 2 bottom 8 teams those 2 years.
It will be rectified this season. Risto is a damn good dman but he would be better as a #2 getting 23-24 mins a night max, not 26:30+ a game. With Dahlin now here, Risto will show he is a top flight dman once he has Dahlin a generational dman on the team. Risto has had no other competent top 4 D as a teammate until Scandella was brought in and he's more of a #3/4. And it's quite sad that Marco Scandella and Jake McCabe were the only other somewhat decent D partners. And like I said Scandella is more a #3/4 and McCabe is a #4/5. In other words Risto has had trash to play with and that totally impacted his D #s. What did people expect from a 26 min a night dman on a terrible hockey team ? Thanks hockey gods for the lotto luck that got us the best D prospect since Denis Potvin and the 3rd best prospect since Eric Lindros just behind Crosby and McDavid. Now that Risto has a HoF type talent likely as his future long term D partner Risto is going to have far better analytical stats and will put up 50+ points now that the Sabres won't struggle anymore to reach 200 GF a season.
Ghosts a great player though, but not a franchise #1 D. Risto isn't a franchise #1 D either but he fits the Bill Far more then Ghost. Sub 6 foot dmen usually aren't the healthiest nor the most durable dmen.
Ghost played with Andrew MacDonald up until this year, so there goes that argument.
Draft position is a cute one. I could list a bunch of players drafted in late rounds that went on to become franchise players and others who were drafted in the first round and never amounted to anything, but I'm going to assume I dont really need to. Most logical people know draft position only matters until the player plays their next game.
Again, potential is great. I think Risto could be a great d-man. But Ghost already is one. Maybe Risto could become better than Ghost if he reaches that potential that everyone keeps talking about. But he isnt there yet, so no, he is not better than Ghost.
Edit: Also, dont bother with the "lol, so I guess youd take <insert bad defenseman here> over Dahlin because hes playing in the NHL", because this isnt even applicable here. We're talking about two players with similar-ish ceilings, and the age difference isnt extreme enough for a comparisson on potential vs actual, since both players are still improving.
This isnt even close for me, or most people, I would think, if they bothered to look at how far along Ghost has come defensively.
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JojoTheWhale
CORN BOY
- May 22, 2008
- 33,790
- 105,381
Remember the Manning-Ghost experiment too? Manning was the one ripping Shots at every opportunity. Good lord that was painful.
Remember the Manning-Ghost experiment too? Manning was the one ripping Shots at every opportunity. Good lord that was painful.
Thanks for triggering my PTSD, Jojo.
1865
Alpha Couturier
We downgrade on D and get pretty much what Konecny will become but older and less cost-controlled, and all for the sake of losing Lehtera's one remaining year?
1865
Alpha Couturier
Even that is underplayed. Ghost’s defensive game last year was excellent. He won defenseman of the year even thought Provorov got more goals.
Bob Clarke Fan Club
Registered User
The value is bad, and the trade isnt s good fit, but it's not "let's go over-hyperbolic" bad.
TheKingPin
Registered User
No, he's not.... but then you have Konecny going with arvidsson coming
Ghost > Risto
Konecny > Arvidsson
Value wise Konecny holds more.
They're even as players currently, Konecny is 4 years younger on ELC and has much higher ceiling.
Quite the opppsite.
Buffalo is only one saying yes.
Risto might be 4th best player in this trade
Please explain how Arvidsson and Konecny are even as players currently.
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