Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc.

[renberg]

Don't assume Patrick will be healthy. This week, next week, next month.... just don't.

Maybe its because we went through the head problems with Lindros but I have a great concern if Patrick will ever be able to play again. When you have an entire off season to get your head together an edit doesn't happen, there is a huge issue.

 

[Appleyard]

"Wasting a year is a matter of conjecture."

Did Giroux waste half a season in the AHL, or did he prime himself for a successful debut?

Tyler Johnson was an extremely undersized player who was meh in the CHL until his overage season. So it was reasonable to want to see him do it again in the AHL after a very good first season.

Marchessault was another undersized guy who didn't break out until his overage CHL season. He spent 4 seasons in the AHL, but his rookie year, 45g 3-8 11 ES, so it wasn't like he was an instant success.

Montour spent a year and a half in the AHL before coming up at 22 years old, 27g 2-3 5 ES, that's marginal 4th line production.

Tatar spent 3 years in the AHL after coming over at 20 years old, 18g 3-3 6 ES, next season 73g 17-16 33

Palmieri spent 2 1/2 years in the AHL from 19-21, then 42g 8-10 18, next season 71g 14-17 31.

Palmieri is probably the only one with a good case of being "buried," he probably should have been in the NHL after 2 AHL seasons.
Teams tend to have a pretty good feel for when a player is ready.

It is a matter of conjecture... just like "not being ready" is, especially in cases where players have dominated a lower league and then look good in NHL or at least hold their own from get-go.

I mean, Johnson and Marchessault had nothing left to do in the AHL, they were 23 and 24 years old, and were underplayed when came up. Odds wise they did not improve as players that much over the time, given that most NHL primes start at 23. Tampa lost a 1st line player in Marchessault as they did not give him a legit chance after he already proved himself.

Tatar was over 0.5 PPG in his first NHL season, had dominated AHL at 5v5, played for Slovakia at worlds, Detroit had an older roster that was fading... he would/should have been in their top 9 in 2011-12

Montour should probably have been up to start 2012-23... he did not improve in AHL and was in their top 4 by seasons end in NHL.



Or teams might not all have a great feel for it... but most players who are good enough to be good NHLers are going to be good no matter what, so teams occasionally kind of screw themselves out of top 9/top 4 players for ~6 months- a year or so for not much reason.

 

[deadhead]

Or teams might not all have a great feel for it... but most players who are good enough to be good NHLers are going to be good no matter what, so teams occasionally kind of screw themselves out of top 9/top 4 players for ~6 months- a year or so for not much reason.

Or teams have a general idea where a player is AND where he fits, that is, some players like Couts can be worked in the bottom six then work their way up, other offensive first players have to have instant success on scoring lines or they're worse than replacement value.

Not saying teams don't make mistakes in hindsight, but it's not an exact science.

It also makes sense to be more cautious with top prospects, if you screw up Rubtsov you might lose a solid two way center, if you screw up Vorobyev you might be losing the services of a marginal NHL player.

To me, the most important thing this year is to set up Frost, Farabee, Rubtsov and Myers for success, to gradually integrate them in the team, and hopefully by the playoffs (see the Pens Cup teams) they're ready to contribute, and you can write them in ink next season in the lineup card.

Cameos are more valuable for guys like Bunnaman, Twarynski, NAK, Sushko and Vorobyev, because their future, if any, is as bottom six players who have to understand what that role entails at the NHL level - it's about accepting your limits and embracing "dirty work."

 

[Appleyard]

Or teams have a general idea where a player is AND where he fits, that is, some players like Couts can be worked in the bottom six then work their way up, other offensive first players have to have instant success on scoring lines or they're worse than replacement value.

Not saying teams don't make mistakes in hindsight, but it's not an exact science.

It also makes sense to be more cautious with top prospects, if you screw up Rubtsov you might lose a solid two way center, if you screw up Vorobyev you might be losing the services of a marginal NHL player.

To me, the most important thing this year is to set up Frost, Farabee, Rubtsov and Myers for success, to gradually integrate them in the team, and hopefully by the playoffs (see the Pens Cup teams) they're ready to contribute, and you can write them in ink next season in the lineup card.

Cameos are more valuable for guys like Bunnaman, Twarynski, NAK, Sushko and Vorobyev, because their future, if any, is as bottom six players who have to understand what that role entails at the NHL level - it's about accepting your limits and embracing "dirty work."

Except the NHL is going away from that mentality. If St. Louis had thought like that last year... they likely dont win the cup.

Thomas, Blais, Fabbri, Barbashev, Kyrou...

all "offensive" players with talent and likely top 6 potential who spent a year mucking it out with sub-13 mins a night. And were all positives for St. Louis.

 

[deadhead]

Kyrou was sent down,
Blais was 22, 6'2 205 with 143 AHL games under his belt.
Fabbri might be an example of a player ruined by being brought up too soon, starter at 20, marginal player at 23
Barbashyov: 65 AHL games at 20, 46 AHL/30 NHL at 21, 20 AHL/53 NHL at 22, starter at 23.

So your examples actually prove my point.

 

[wasup]

Development is weird sometimes . Some will not preform well at the AHL level but when brought up do flourish . And some do well down but when brought up struggle . I think a lot of time it's more a mental thing and confidence is a huge thing . I would also like to bring a prospect up when the team is rolling along not when the team is struggling cause the pressure to preform would be way less .

I know a lot of people on here want Myers up right now and i am a big fan of his but he did struggle in preseason imo so if he has to go down to get his mojo back im fine with that . We will get injuries and he will be back up before long .

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Except the NHL is going away from that mentality. If St. Louis had thought like that last year... they likely dont win the cup.

Thomas, Blais, Fabbri, Barbashev, Kyrou...

all "offensive" players with talent and likely top 6 potential who spent a year mucking it out with sub-13 mins a night. And were all positives for St. Louis.

You're forgetting that narratives trump logic.

 

[Appleyard]

Kyrou was sent down,
Blais was 22, 6'2 205 with 143 AHL games under his belt.
Fabbri might be an example of a player ruined by being brought up too soon, starter at 20, marginal player at 23
Barbashyov: 65 AHL games at 20, 46 AHL/30 NHL at 21, 20 AHL/53 NHL at 22, starter at 23.

So your examples actually prove my point.

They played them ALL in bottom six roles. None are "ruined" they simply helped the team. Half were playing 4th line roles as skilled players. Has it hurt them? No. It helped St. Louis though.

As for Fabbri, I mean, injuries if anything given what happened.

And Blais should have been full-timer earlier arguably. Had nothing left to prove at AHL level, had proved self in AHL, then helped in playoffs in minor role.

 

[deadhead]

However, they are more like Vorobyev, NAK and Twarynski than Frost and Farabee.
Thomas is more similar, but his physical development was ahead of those two (6'0 188 or bigger at 19).

And notice how many AHL games some of them played before they got that bottom six role.

 

[TB87]

Watched Noah Cates season opener with UMD last night. These are observations from 1 game so don’t read into them too much.

He looks bigger and stronger and that manifested itself in multiple ways in this game:
- UMass Lowell FWDS & Dmen tried their hardest to separate him from the puck and they just bounced off of him each time
- Every 50/50 battle he engaged in he either came away with the puck or maintained possession

I understand why the Flyers & their scouts like him so much. He’s a beast on the forecheck and frequently forced the opposition into low percentage plays/passes. He also has an innate ability to know exactly where he needs to be on the ice at any given time.

I don’t know how much longer he’ll be at UMD (Best guess is two more years) but I can absolutely see an NHL future for this player. He could be a very effective 4th line grinder who tilts the ice in the Flyers favor consistently. 3rd line is probably his ceiling

 

[macleish1974]

Why would Bunnaman be pissed?

He didn't have a great first year in the AHL, still made the team out of camp, got to play in 5 NHL games and collect extra salary and per diem, had a great adventure and learned what it takes to make it in the NHL.

He's only 21, it isn't like this is a career ender.

LOL

It was just a lead in so I could meme Hendrix....;-))

 

[FLYguy3911]

The AHL is quite simply a clusterf***. There's not a lot of flow. There's not as much space because there is less structure (especially on this Phantoms team). Your teammates are worse. Guys don't make decisions as quick. Playing in the NHL, especially with the more smart and skilled players, generally elevates a player's game. You actually play with guys that think the game at your level who also have the skill to make plays. The biggest difference between NHL scoring and AHL scoring is generally usage. The AHL is not a league that someone is going to jump in and score at a 1.5 PPG clip. The top scorers generally are just above a PPG pace - for a number of reasons.

 

[macleish1974]

Watched Noah Cates season opener with UMD last night. These are observations from 1 game so don’t read into them too much.

He looks bigger and stronger and that manifested itself in multiple ways in this game:
- UMass Lowell FWDS & Dmen tried their hardest to separate him from the puck and they just bounced off of him each time
- Every 50/50 battle he engaged in he either came away with the puck or maintained possession

I understand why the Flyers & their scouts like him so much. He’s a beast on the forecheck and frequently forced the opposition into low percentage plays/passes. He also has an innate ability to know exactly where he needs to be on the ice at any given time.

I don’t know how much longer he’ll be at UMD (Best guess is two more years) but I can absolutely see an NHL future for this player. He could be a very effective 4th line grinder who tilts the ice in the Flyers favor consistently. 3rd line is probably his ceiling

I saw Noah during the development camp scrimmage . I came away..whoa...tremendous passer and high hockey I Q. Made more plays not named Frost, Farabee or Brink.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I’ve said before I think Krejci is a reasonable comp for Frost.

Krejci at 20 didn’t make the Bruins. He played 69 AHL games, then got a late callup to the NHL where he had 0 points in 6 games.

Next season at 21 he played 25 AHL games & had 27 points in 56 NHL games.

Sometimes the process takes a little longer than we as fans would like. But maybe the work at the lower level pays off in the end by giving you a better player.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m in favor of young players making an NHL roster if they dominate in preseason or early AHL time. But if there’s a coach I trust — & I very much trust Vigneault — I’ll defer to his decision on whether a player should be in the Flyers lineup or he’d benefit from a little AHL seasoning.

 

[TB87]

I saw Noah during the development camp scrimmage . I came away..whoa...tremendous passer and high hockey I Q. Made more plays not named Frost, Farabee or Brink.

Nice! I’ve been pretty bullish on his NHL prospects since his Draft+1 season in the USHL. I didn’t know who he was once the Flyers selected him in the 5th Rd of the 2017 draft. Watching him in his post-draft seasons though have opened my eyes. He has a very strong head for the game. Pro coaches will love his game

 

[FLYguy3911]

Kase is supposed to play tonight. Greg Carey out. Frost rejoices.

 

[TB87]

Kase is supposed to play tonight. Greg Carey out. Frost rejoices.

awesome! Carey absolutely earned a seat in the press box. Kase is fun and I wonder what line he’ll slot into

 

[FLYguy3911]

awesome! Carey absolutely earned a seat in the press box. Kase is fun and I wonder what line he’ll slot into

Well it's a veteran scratch for Carey so I wouldn't read too much into it.

I could definitely see a modern approach where Kase is a serviceable NHL 4th liner in the very near future. Seems like AV/Fletcher are into size and grit on their 4th line though so he'll probably always be a tweener.

 

[Stizzle]

This lineup is so loaded... not even Gordon can screw it up?

 

[FLYguy3911]

Guess Binghamton is going to let Vorobyev get to the slot whenever he wants.

Farabee again. Frost finally gets a point.

 

[macleish1974]

What a pass by Frost to Farabee for the pp goal.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Oh boy. What a pass.

 

[macleish1974]

3rd pp goal; Frost primary...

 

[Appleyard]

The goals for those who have not seen them.

 

[Magua]

Those Frost hot takes aging well, I see. It’s almost like when people watch games and say a player is playing well but unlucky.....points eventually happen. Imagine.