Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc.

[deadhead]

Better stay upwind then.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Better stay upwind then.

Definitely.

 

[Curufinwe]

 

[Tripod]

So, Martel = Keller?
Keller was the #7 pick, as an 18 year old college player, 31g 21-24 45.
He's far more skilled and accomplished than Martel at the same age.
He's undersized but still has 2" on Martel, and is 168-170 where Martel was 162 lbs at 18 years old.

What this shows is simply that undersized players have to be uber-talented to make it.

No....the point is you go on and on about size, yet an undersized talented rookie is having a great year.

So who says Martel can't be a lesser version of that?

 

[deadhead]

I’m going to laugh if Martel becomes the next Marchessault/Sheary somewhere else.

I'm not sure Hextall would care.
Marchessault is on his third team in three years, while he scored 30 goals last year, he was a liability overall (2.6 GF/60, 3.6 GA/60).
Sheary had a solid season last year with the walking birds, but has really struggled this season.
Sheary was 24 in his breakout season, Marchessault turned 25 in December of his first NHL season.
So Martel spending the whole season in the AHL would be pretty normal for an undersized forward who doesn't turn 23 until December.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Yeah and looked what happened to that guy...

 

[Magua]

If McDonald scored 40 and couldn't become an NHLer with his natural girth, Martel is scrrrrrewed.

But for real: if Martel is anywhere near 40 and is still in the AHL accumulating his pixie dust, I'd be pretty pissed.

 

[deadhead]

No....the point is you go on and on about size, yet an undersized talented rookie is having a great year.

So who says Martel can't be a lesser version of that?

How valuable is a lesser version of that? How much lesser?
As Marchessault showed, you can score and still be a liability.

I'm not saying Martel can't make it, I'm pretty sure he can score at the NHL level, but he's not that talented, his junior performance was so impressive he went undrafted, his first two AHL seasons were solid but not special. Weal outperformed him at every level at the same age, has an inch and 10 lbs on him, and he couldn't make it until he was 25. If he scores 20 goals but is a serious liability on defense, who can he beat out now and in the future?

Martel is just really small, which means he has to be that much more talented than everyone else to make it. And I'm not sure he's that good.

 

[Magua]

I'm not sure Hextall would care.

Then for someone who won't part with garbage players because he might lose a 7th rounder, losing an actual top 9 NHL scoring talent for nothing and not caring because he's a wee little man would be disastrous asset management.

But he would care.

Also, for the record, at no point has Marchessault been a "disaster" in the underlying numbers. He's killing it in Vegas right now too. That Florida team had a ton of heavily negative players, like Ekblad, Trocheck, and so forth. Shit happens. I seem to remember the Flyers having a ton of heavily minus players too last year. Were they all bad defensively too and decided to not be this year?

 

[Tripod]

How valuable is a lesser version of that? How much lesser?
As Marchessault showed, you can score and still be a liability.

I'm not saying Martel can't make it, I'm pretty sure he can score at the NHL level, but he's not that talented, his junior performance was so impressive he went undrafted, his first two AHL seasons were solid but not special. Weal outperformed him at every level at the same age, has an inch and 10 lbs on him, and he couldn't make it until he was 25. If he scores 20 goals but is a serious liability on defense, who can he beat out now and in the future?

Martel is just really small, which means he has to be that much more talented than everyone else to make it. And I'm not sure he's that good.

You won't know until you give him a chance. Or else someone else give's him that chance.

Point is, if we are rebuilding anyways, why not see what he might be? And right now since they want Lindblom to get more AHL time might be the perfect time to see what he can do in the top 9.

 

[deadhead]

Hextall has seen Giroux, Konency, Weal and Leier in action on this team, somehow I suspect he has a pretty good sense of Martel can bring and where he'd fit.
It's not like this is the Kings East, Flyers are one of the smallest teams in the league.
So if Martel hasn't convinced Hextall to call him up, it's probably because Hextall has his doubts.
I mean Hextall kept Konency on the team at 19 years old, and not that much bigger than Martel (he's gotten stronger this year but has a ways to go).

 

[Striiker]

Size > speed skill brains



What year is it again?

 

[deadhead]

Oh come on, Konency and Weal aren't exactly large, what's the average NHL forward these days? About 6'0.7 199 lbs

NHL Forwards vs. Defensemen Height & Weight, 1917-18 to 2014-15

Konency 5'10 176 (draft size)
Weal 5'10 179
Leier 5'10 176
Giroux 5'11 185
Ghost 5'11 181

Martel 5'8 161

 

[Striiker]

Johnny Gaudreau 5'9" 157

And before you completely miss the point, no, I'm not comparing Martel to Gaudreau.

The point is that height and weight can be compensated for by being skilled.

Martel is skilled and fast. Maybe he can make it at the NHL level, maybe not. But acting like his height and weight are going to stop him is wrong. It just depends on how good he is, because others have proved that if you're good enough you can still make it, despite being small.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Why are we focusing on what a player can't do? Focus on what he can do, then put him in positions that play to those strengths. The only way you're going to know if he can do it is by letting him try.

 

[Magua]

Why are we focusing on what a player can't do? Focus on what he can do, then put him in positions that play to those strengths. The only way you're going to know if he can do it is by letting him try.

 

[tymed]

I think Zuccarello's a good comparison for Martel, if any. They're about the same height, Martel being listed 17 pounds lighter on nhl.com however. Both quick and fast skaters who can make plays but tend more primarily towards getting the puck towards and onto the net. Seems to be finding his way at the pro level and I'd hope he get's a fair shake.

 

[Magua]

I refuse to believe Martel is 161 lbs or whatever btw. 170-175 seems more likely.

I'd say he reminds me of Sheary if I'm picking anyone.

 

[Striiker]

He reminds me of a smaller Byfuglien.

 

[CodyTheHuman]

He reminds me of a smaller Byfuglien.

Martin St. Louis for sure.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I refuse to believe Martel is 161 lbs or whatever btw. 170-175 seems more likely.

I'd say he reminds me of Sheary if I'm picking anyone.

You could say this for a lot of guys as the NHL isn’t exactly proactive in updating those things. You have guys who go 5-10 years being listed the same weight as they entered the league.

 

[tymed]

I refuse to believe Martel is 161 lbs or whatever btw. 170-175 seems more likely.

I'd say he reminds me of Sheary if I'm picking anyone.

After having to skim over some chatter about Keller and Gaudreau I figured I'd just try to steer it a little back in a better direction. Agree Martels probably considerably heavier than 162 by now. Honestly I've never paid any attention to Sheary and was just scoping out Buchnevich (who looks great) in the Rags game and Zucc always stands out as small and opportunistic. I just hope Martel gets his shot like Leier has.

 

[deadhead]

I refuse to believe Martel is 161 lbs or whatever btw. 170-175 seems more likely.

I'd say he reminds me of Sheary if I'm picking anyone.

Martel was 167 lbs on the TC roster v 161.
Konency was 184 lbs (176) - he's not bouncing off people as much!
Weal was 179 lbs (179)
Leier was 177 lbs (176)
Ghost was 186 lbs (181)
MacDonald was only 190 lbs
The listed weights, unless you're looking at the TC roster, are often the draft day weights.
Point is that Martel is still unusually small, even for small players.

St Louis was listed at 5'8 181
Sheary 5'8 174
Sheary I think had a fluke season last year, didn't play that well his first season or this season. He also had 4 years in college and 1.5 years in the AHL. He was 23 when he came up mid-season.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

(\ /)
( . .)
c(”)(”)

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

well hopefully when Martel gets up to the big club he is closer to Sheary or Zucc then other guys who have tore up the AHL but just couldnt cut it at the NHL level for whatever reason. I have not seen him play so I dont know how his game translates to the next level. So hopefully he is a diamond in the rough for this team down the line.