Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc.

[FlyTimmo]

Hey Guys, I've posted this here a couple times before. I'm still working my way through the spreadsheet, but since the draft is coming up soon I'm looking for feedback as I want to prep this ****** so it's useful.

I would hope you guys find some value in this and you can use it as a resource. I will keep managing it and incorporating people's feedback. Feel free to leave comments, even negative, its a work in progress so I want to make sure it makes sense to outsiders and not just myself.

FLYERS IN DEPTH GOOGLE DOC

Are you using the same HF rating system (7C, 6.5D, etc)?

If so, I think you overvalued a couple guys:

Player name: your rating, my rating

Konecny: 9C, 7.5B-8.0B
Laberge: 8D, 7.0D
Allison: 7.5B, 7.0C

Provorov: 9.5B, 9.0B
Ghost: 9.0C, 8.0B
Sanheim: 9.0C, 8.0C
Myers: 8.0B, 7.5C
Morin: 8.0B, 7.0B

Even a couple of mine might still be too high.

 

[HighOFFHockey]

Are you using the same HF rating system (7C, 6.5D, etc)?

If so, I think you overvalued a couple guys:

Player name: your rating, my rating

Konecny: 9C, 7.5B-8.0B
Laberge: 8D, 7.0D
Allison: 7.5B, 7.0C

Provorov: 9.5B, 9.0B
Ghost: 9.0C, 8.0B
Sanheim: 9.0C, 8.0C
Myers: 8.0B, 7.5C
Morin: 8.0B, 7.0B

Even a couple of mine might still be too high.

Appreciate the feedback, I like it. I'll look into those player ratings, but no I don't want to go off of their system exactly. I actually found their ratings very frustrating and constantly undervalue good players. I think a C is maybe. Which Myers, is definitely not a maybe. But some of the others I can see what where you're going, but a guy like Laberge was supposed to go on the 1st, has high skill, but an injury history.

However, I'll look to meet thinks in the middle. Also, the downgrading of Ghost makes no sense to me at all. He had the best rookie season for the Flyers since Eric Lindros, I would say 1% of players in the league could have done what he two last year. Karlsson wasn't very good defensively at the same age, give it time.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Appreciate the feedback, I like it. I'll look into those player ratings, but no I don't want to go off of their system exactly. I actually found their ratings very frustrating and constantly undervalue good players. I think a C is maybe. Which Myers, is definitely not a maybe. But some of the others I can see what where you're going, but a guy like Laberge was supposed to go on the 1st, has high skill, but an injury history.

However, I'll look to meet thinks in the middle. Also, the downgrading of Ghost makes no sense to me at all. He had the best rookie season for the Flyers since Eric Lindros, I would say 1% of players in the league could have done what he two last year. Karlsson wasn't very good defensively at the same age, give it time.

For Ghost a rating of 9 I think indicates that he has franchise defenseman potential, which I don't quite think he has. I think he has top pairing potential, but not quite franchise. 8.0B I think is a fair rating for him.

 

[Lindberg]

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start.

Oh by all means do tell.

He had some part to do with the signing of AMac which has been a disaster.
He didn't trade PEB who apparently is valued by a few GMs (not sure why).
He's employed some terrible coaches who are not great for player development (Hakstol/Gordon).
He's kept the same crappy assistant coaches who should be gone.
He might use protection slots on crappy players (i.e. MacDonald/PEB)

The only trade he has done that was really successful was the Coburn for 1st + Gudas. He lucked out with the VLC and L. Schenn trade given that VLC was willing to retire. Umberger for Hartnell wasn't a quality trade at all but freed up cap space so there is a slight mulligan there. Rinaldo for a 3rd was a good deal but GMs put a premium on hitting for some reason.

Just because some GMs are grossly incompetent, people around here act like he's some fantastic GM. He's an ok GM who hasn't done much of anything besides move one player for quality assets and drafted well (which is more a reflection on scouting than the GM). Sooner then later we will find out whether he's actually worth his salt or not.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Oh by all means do tell.

He had some part to do with the signing of AMac which has been a disaster.
He didn't trade PEB who apparently is valued by a few GMs (not sure why).
He's employed some terrible coaches who are not great for player development (Hakstol/Gordon).
He's kept the same crappy assistant coaches who should be gone.
He might use protection slots on crappy players (i.e. MacDonald/PEB)

Can you tell me what he did exactly with the AMac signing? I'd love to know.

Why trade PEB? We wouldn't get a 3rd or anything like that. I don't like him, but who cares. This team will not be in the gutter because we have PEB on the roster.

I don't like Hakstol or Gordon, but Hextall isn't a rash GM. He is giving them a chance. Another poor season and they will probably not be employed by the Flyers.

Oh noooo.... our assistant coaches aren't the best, might as well sell the team.

He "might" use the protection slots on crappy players... ok. He hasn't done that yet.

And what if he protects Amac, it isn't like Vegas would grab him, nor do we really care about leaving Manning unprotected.


These are such minor things to dislike or have doubts in Hextall for.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

A 7th rounder would have been an overpayment by another team for Bellemare. That guy is an addition by subtraction.

 

[Lindberg]

Can you tell me what he did exactly with the AMac signing? I'd love to know.

Why trade PEB? We wouldn't get a 3rd or anything like that. I don't like him, but who cares. This team will not be in the gutter because we have PEB on the roster.

I don't like Hakstol or Gordon, but Hextall isn't a rash GM. He is giving them a chance. Another poor season and they will probably not be employed by the Flyers.

Oh noooo.... our assistant coaches aren't the best, might as well sell the team.

He "might" use the protection slots on crappy players... ok. He hasn't done that yet.

And what if he protects Amac, it isn't like Vegas would grab him, nor do we really care about leaving Manning unprotected.


These are such minor things to dislike or have doubts in Hextall for.

I'm not sure how you expect me to tell you the exact role Hextall had in the signing of AMac but it has been documented that he did play a part in it. He was being groomed for the role and as far as I can recall give the green light to it.

Given the reports at the time about how interested teams were it wouldn't surprise me if he returned a better pick than a 3rd rounder. Teams called in to ask if he was available, he wasn't being shopped. This team won't be in the gutter regardless of PEB but he could have returned an asset. He scored 8 effing points this season while playing 82 games. Basically almost everyone in the NHL offense wise out scored him.

He hired coaches who don't help their young players grow. We now have read reports on both coaches where they didn't place their young players in good positions to succeed. Hakstol didn't even talk to Konency about his benching.

Continually keeping crappy coaches isn't a good thing. He fired the only one who had any success even though Mullen should have been gone a while ago.

Protecting AMac or Manning are both a waste of a protection slot.

I think you're downplaying all of his poor decisions but it indicates a poor decision making process. At this point he's made quite a few poor decisions and I'm not sold that he's a cut above other GMs.

 

[HighOFFHockey]

For Ghost a rating of 9 I think indicates that he has franchise defenseman potential, which I don't quite think he has. I think he has top pairing potential, but not quite franchise. 8.0B I think is a fair rating for him.

That's fair, thanks. I'm going to re-evaluate. I do see your point, there's potential for it IMO, but he has not shown that in the same way, Provorov has.
Actually he's an interesting one.

Ideally I would love to have some kind of voting system. I believe in the "wisdom of the crowd" concept. It's a big reason I included our HFBoards rankings on the page. I find them the to be relatively accurate.

 

[FlyTimmo]

I think you're downplaying all of his poor decisions but it indicates a poor decision making process. At this point he's made quite a few poor decisions and I'm not sold that he's a cut above other GMs.

Not all of the decisions you discussed are at the moment poor. Many are based on speculation. I don't think Hextall has done particularly well in FA and I wish he would have parted with Hakstol/Gordon this year, but that isn't his style.

Even if Hexy isn't among the top tier of GMs he is certainly a breath of fresh air in comparison to the Holmgren days.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

He had some part to do with the signing of AMac which has been a disaster.

Wrong. He had no part of the MacDonald contract. Hextall was rather upset when Holmgren made the deal and then signed him to the contract he got. Hextall has made it clear on numerous occasions that he wasn't a fan of the contract that MacDonald received and that he would work with it as best as possible.

As for the rest of the garbage about Hextall being lucky with regards to trades and drafts, think again. The man is a calculating individual who has a plan and has followed his plan right down to the last letter. He hasn't deviated from it either and that's what's been most impressive. After making the playoffs last season, I was worried it was going to revert to the Flyers of old and make a blockbuster dealing youth and draft picks for a veteran player, but they didn't. It's clear that Hextall is going to see his vision come to fruition and that's refreshing for this Flyers fan who has endured years of Bob Clarke, Russ Farwell, Bob Clarke (again) and Paul Holmgren (of note, I love Bobby Clarke, but in his stint as GM, he really made some questionable decisions and trades).

 

[Banger]

So he makes a bad trade he sucks, a good trade the other GMs are stupid/he's lucky. Sounds objective.

 

[Curufinwe]

Blame the GM for contracts signed before he became GM, but give no credit to the GM for draft picks made after he became GM.

 

[hatcher]

Soon Hexy will make his first trade that will add to this team then we'll see.

 

[Tripod]

Soon Hexy will make his first trade that will add to this team then we'll see.

I actually agree with Hatcher here.

It's easier to be a seller than a buyer. When Hextall makes his real 1st trade as a buyer, hopefully it is a good one.

 

[deadhead]

1. The basic criticism of Hakstoll is he couldn't make the playoffs with the same crap that Lavi and Berube couldn't take to the playoffs. As far as "Pejorative Sluring player development," do you hear the nonsense about Konency that was said about Drouin after his rookie season? Did Provorov suffer? Did Weal come out of nowhere? Did Cousins improve in his second season? The only player who regressed was Laughton, and it was obvious he was brought up too soon and needed more AHL time, which is probably on Hextall (and probably made him more conservative with other players).

2. Hextall has done a great job as a seller, getting value for McGinn, Rinaldo, Vinnie/Schenn, Streit, Coburn, Kimmo.

3. As a buyer, he's going to "lose" most deals, because that's what happens when you buy. However, the key to buying is timing, if you're patient, buy when the marginal value to you is at its highest point, and you've build your talent pipeline to where you can trade surplus (i.e. low opportunity cost, vulnerable to waiver or free agency) talent, then you can win even when the other side gets more raw value.

 

[Striiker]

1. The basic criticism of Hakstoll is he couldn't make the playoffs with the same crap that Lavi and Berube couldn't take to the playoffs. As far as "Pejorative Sluring player development," do you hear the nonsense about Konency that was said about Drouin after his rookie season? Did Provorov suffer? Did Weal come out of nowhere? Did Cousins improve in his second season? The only player who regressed was Laughton, and it was obvious he was brought up too soon and needed more AHL time, which is probably on Hextall (and probably made him more conservative with other players).

2. Hextall has done a great job as a seller, getting value for McGinn, Rinaldo, Vinnie/Schenn, Streit, Coburn, Kimmo.

3. As a buyer, he's going to "lose" most deals, because that's what happens when you buy. However, the key to buying is timing, if you're patient, buy when the marginal value to you is at its highest point, and you've build your talent pipeline to where you can trade surplus (i.e. low opportunity cost, vulnerable to waiver or free agency) talent, then you can win even when the other side gets more raw value.

That isn't the criticism at all. Shows how little you pay attention when people explain things to you.

Yet again, you completely miss the point.

 

[phil162888]

I actually agree with Hatcher here.

It's easier to be a seller than a buyer. When Hextall makes his real 1st trade as a buyer, hopefully it is a good one.

Most Flyer fans love Hextall (the player), Hextall the GM has done very little yet to be graded completely. His decision to hire Hakstol over some premium coaches that were available looks horrible right now. That being said it's my belief you need to give someone 2+seasons (especially if its a team that's in the middle of a rebuild) to get his system in place and find his groove as a coach. If Hakstol can not get this ship righted within the first 25-30 games he should be let go. The fact that he hasn't made a move to secure a top 4 dmen and the goalie situation is in limbo all will show Hexy's real value as a GM. The draft, expansion draft and the decisions on whether to trade for a top 4 dmen/goalie will be a better indication of where Hexy is at as a GM. I think the honeymoon phase is over and Hextall will need to show his worth this season.... Lombardi and Sutter are out there and don't believe for a second that Holmgren/Clarke will let Hextall botch this period in the Flyer rebuild if he can't make good moves this off season and if he continues to be reluctant to fire Hakstol if they start slow ... he too may be in the line of fire if he's not careful.

 

[BritainStix]

Everything you just wrote is wrong.

Literally everything.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Everything you just wrote is wrong.

Literally everything.

Yep. Why is this season some barometer for Hextall? Baffling lack of patience.

 

[Striiker]

Everything you just wrote is wrong.

Literally everything.

Yeah that's a steaming pile of hot take.

 

[pit]

For years we have complained about how our GM's have gone for quick fixes instead of having patience to properly grow a roster from within.

Now we have a GM doing just that and we impatiently want to pillory them for not moving fast enough.

Story checks out.

 

[Curufinwe]

Stupid Hextall protecting 30-something scrubs like MacDonald and Bellemare.

 

[deadhead]

That isn't the criticism at all. Shows how little you pay attention when people explain things to you.

Yet again, you completely miss the point.

I get the point, I just dismiss it as abject nonsense. Nitpicking about minor coaching decisions that every coach makes. Hextall was the problem with this team, not Hakstol, and that was by design.

Playing MacDonald instead of three other losers, Provorov played the most minutes, along with Gudas when he was healthy. Ghost was limited b/c of his defensive deficiencies, not to favor MacDonald.

VdV or Luby, who cares? That's on Hextall. We didn't have enough players to put together a credible fourth line. Gordon? Leier? Cousins? (who garnered a 5th rd pick).

Benching Konency to give him a wake up call, that's pretty common with young players making mistakes that they've probably been lectured not to do a couple dozen times.

Benching Ghost b/c he was in a funk, making stupid decisions.

 

[Striiker]

I get the point, I just dismiss it as abject nonsense. Nitpicking about minor coaching decisions that every coach makes. Hextall was the problem with this team, not Hakstol, and that was by design.

Playing MacDonald instead of three other losers, Provorov played the most minutes, along with Gudas when he was healthy. Ghost was limited b/c of his defensive deficiencies, not to favor MacDonald.

VdV or Luby, who cares? That's on Hextall. We didn't have enough players to put together a credible fourth line. Gordon? Leier? Cousins? (who garnered a 5th rd pick).

Benching Konency to give him a wake up call, that's pretty common with young players making mistakes that they've probably been lectured not to do a couple dozen times.

Benching Ghost b/c he was in a funk, making stupid decisions.

Ok one last time...

It isn't about picking one trash player over another... it's about the fact that he clearly doesn't see it that way. He sees real value in these guys, not that they're the best of a bad choice. That's proven by how he used thems.

Vandevelde sucks, Bellemare sucks, Lyubimov sucks, Gordon sucks, they all suck. I don't care.

The problem is playing then as the top PK unit, using them in late situations when you're down a goal or up a goal, praising them CONSTANTLY to the media, matching them against top lines, and so on. You don't do that with guys you know suck, you so that with guys you believe are valuable to the team.

It's that poor judgement that's an issue going forward. Even when all these yeah trash guys are gone, it's very possible he uses the people on the team wrong because he doesn't evaluate strengths and weaknesses properly.

(Also I don't really care about the benchings, they were dumb but not a big deal in my eyes.)

 

[deadhead]

Yep. Why is this season some barometer for Hextall? Baffling lack of patience.

Because he should walk on water (uh, isn't ice frozen water? Nevermind).

Instant gratification after a well executed three year rebuild where Hextall took a team with one of the worst collection of under 25 talent to one with the one of the best in the NHL.

He's only garnered two premium goalie prospects, but should sell the farm for a second tier veteran.

He's only adding 3 solid rookie defensive prospects this year and 2 more next year, but should sell the farm for a #4 D-man.

He's only adding a near elite center prospect and the best forward in Sweden, but not enough is being done to improve scoring.

Oh well, I'm sure someone could do a better job.