Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [Post draft 2020]

[Stizzle]

Jack St. Ivany is headed to Boston College because Yale's season was cancelled. He is eligible to start playing next semester.
Two NHL draft picks on the move from ECAC Hockey to Hockey East

 

[Winston Wolf]

You have to be real confident you're going to make some decent money from hockey to transfer from Yale to BC.

 

[deadhead]

Even if he bottoms out in the AHL, he can make $200K a year if he's a top 4 AHL D-man with marginal NHL skills, if he can be #7 D-man in the NHL, he can make $700K a year for a few years, and play in the AHL under one way contracts.

As a big RHD it's reasonable to think that isn't out of reach, by age 30, he can put away a million or more after taxes if he's somewhat frugal - now what job can even a Harvard graduate (especially if he's not top of his class) get that pays as well?

And he has a good excuse for leaving, and probably could arrange to get a Yale degree at some point, at worst, any interviewer hearing his story would credit him with such, it wasn't like he left b/c he has a personality problem.

 

[FLYguy3911]

You have to be real confident you're going to make some decent money from hockey to transfer from Yale to BC.

If he only ends up playing one semester at BC before turning pro, I wonder how feasible it would be to transfer back if he wanted to finish his degree?

He really got boned. He's six months too old to go back and play Junior hockey. Going overseas and forfeiting college at this time of the year doesn't seem like a great idea. The Phantoms might not have a season and already have a full blueline. Now he joins a top team, with a couple NHL draft picks at his position. It's also possible the rest of the season can get canned at some point if the cases continue to trend the way they are. I'm sure he doesn't transfer there without a little promise from BC or nudge from the Flyers, but it's still an unfortunate situation for a kid that is a pretty underrated prospect and who has a chance to turn pro next year.

 

[Appleyard]

Andrae playing over 5 minutes in the first... actually on a regular pairing and PP2.

 

[FLYguy3911]

That was ugly.

 

[Cody Webster]

Penn St is f***ing terrible, especially their goalies

 

[Psuhockey]

You have to be real confident you're going to make some decent money from hockey to transfer from Yale to BC.

He has the easiest path to a NHL career. Become a right handed Hagg and he will have a 6-8 year career as a 6-7 defenseman in the NHL. Christian Folin made a little more than $5.5 million dollars in 7 years that exact way.

 

[wankstifier]

So Caufield >>>>> York again?

 

[IronMarshal]

You have to be real confident you're going to make some decent money from hockey to transfer from Yale to BC.

Getting a degree from BC is nothing to sneeze at. Depending on your chosen career, it might even be better than Yale or Harvard. People make too much of the Ivy League blue blood pedigree. It isn't as big a deal in the real world as people are led to believe. Kind of like PHDs and Masters degrees. They are nice, necessary in some areas, but others like teaching, it is just nice and not necessary unless you want to teach at the University level.
Yale is great if you want to get a law degree and go into government service ie. politics, or teh CIA which seems to really like Yalies, Skull and Bones I guess.

 

[deadhead]

The primary value of a Yale and Harvard degree is the networking opportunities (also why the Marines are a good choice for working class kids, Marines tend to hire their own), obviously it helps to have George Bush, Al Gore or Zuckerberg as your college roommate or fraternity brother over Joe Schmo from Penn State. Since most of the students are from upper class or rich families, they have build in networks that are expanded by attending these schools.

The second benefit of an elite college is the peer pressure, I've taught at a couple colleges and the expectations aren't in the same league, students in an Ivy league school don't think twice about a 15 book reading list, my students balked at a 5 book reading list.

The teaching can be worse at a big research university b/c the top professors tend to teach graduate courses and have a light teaching load, but you can get exposed to top scholars in your advanced undergraduate courses.

A PhD is a mistake these days, since the 1980s, tenure track positions have been extremely difficult to obtain, and now are almost impossible, and outside of college teaching, a PhD has limited value. In business and consulting, doing original research isn't valued - what they want is "product", that is, fast turnaround, facile analysis - and because of age discrimination (which starts in your 30s), wasting too much time in academia can deep six your career (b/c if you come out at 30, there's some kid with similar work skills 5 years younger just behind you). MBA and law schools are better preparation for the shallow, quick turnaround work that is in demand, even in think tanks, most of the staff are MBA, MS and JDs, not PhDs.

 

[skagittarius]

Yale is great if you want to get a law degree and go into government service ie. politics, or teh CIA which seems to really like Yalies, Skull and Bones I guess.

Agreed, but Jack St. Ivany is a friggin' great name for a CIA agent.

 

[Cody Webster]

Another chance to watch Michigan. They are going to destroy Penn State

 

[IronMarshal]

The primary value of a Yale and Harvard degree is the networking opportunities (also
A PhD is a mistake these days, since the 1980s, tenure track positions have been extremely difficult to obtain, and now are almost impossible, and outside of college teaching, a PhD has limited value. In business and consulting, doing original research isn't valued - what they want is "product", that is, fast turnaround, facile analysis - and because of age discrimination (which starts in your 30s), wasting too much time in academia can deep six your career (b/c if you come out at 30, there's some kid with similar work skills 5 years younger just behind you). MBA and law schools are better preparation for the shallow, quick turnaround work that is in demand, even in think tanks, most of the staff are MBA, MS and JDs, not PhDs.

Like in the original Ghostbusters "I have worked in industry, they expect results."

 

[Appleyard]

The primary value of a Yale and Harvard degree is the networking opportunities (also why the Marines are a good choice for working class kids, Marines tend to hire their own), obviously it helps to have George Bush, Al Gore or Zuckerberg as your college roommate or fraternity brother over Joe Schmo from Penn State. Since most of the students are from upper class or rich families, they have build in networks that are expanded by attending these schools.

The second benefit of an elite college is the peer pressure, I've taught at a couple colleges and the expectations aren't in the same league, students in an Ivy league school don't think twice about a 15 book reading list, my students balked at a 5 book reading list.

The teaching can be worse at a big research university b/c the top professors tend to teach graduate courses and have a light teaching load, but you can get exposed to top scholars in your advanced undergraduate courses.

A PhD is a mistake these days, since the 1980s, tenure track positions have been extremely difficult to obtain, and now are almost impossible, and outside of college teaching, a PhD has limited value. In business and consulting, doing original research isn't valued - what they want is "product", that is, fast turnaround, facile analysis - and because of age discrimination (which starts in your 30s), wasting too much time in academia can deep six your career (b/c if you come out at 30, there's some kid with similar work skills 5 years younger just behind you). MBA and law schools are better preparation for the shallow, quick turnaround work that is in demand, even in think tanks, most of the staff are MBA, MS and JDs, not PhDs.

How is it in the USA with Uni name recognition? Ofc I know it exists as I considered heading to the US when I was 18. But not sure to what extent.

It is not *that* big a deal in mainland Europe (though differs by country, and ofc a few very desirable in different places), but in the UK there are basically "tiers" of Uni... and a crap degree from a good one might open more doors than a decent degree from a lower end uni.

Like from a cynical perspective, roughly:

Tier 1: Cambridge, Oxford, LSE, Imperial, UCL
Tier 2: Manchester, Warwick, Edinburgh, Kings
Tier 3: Durham, Glasgow, Bristol, Birmingham, Southampton, Sheffield, Leeds, Nottingham, Liverpool, York, St. Andrews, Lancaster, Cardiff, Newcastle
Tier 4: Queen's Belfast, Leicester, Loughborough, Reading, Exeter, Bath, Queen Mary, Aberdeen

Would be - for example - the Universities that I would recommend to my children if I had children and raised them in the UK. And, tbh, I would guide them towards tier 1, 2 or 3 unless specific courses at a tier 4 or they really loved the place.

Ofc... then have some specific schools that are very highly regarded. Say Brunel University and Mech Eng degree there. Amongst others that for specific courses would be a good idea.

But - really - those ~30 (especially the 22 in the top 3) are the ones that you get the most "value" in terms of name recognition going forward.

It is snobby and awful. As you said there is better teaching at some of the Unis not as "highly regarded"... but that is the world we live in.

 

[deadhead]

How is it in the USA with Uni name recognition? Ofc I know it exists as I considered heading to the US when I was 18. But not sure to what extent.

It is not *that* big a deal in mainland Europe (though differs by country, and ofc a few very desirable in different places), but in the UK there are basically "tiers" of Uni... and a crap degree from a good one might open more doors than a decent degree from a lower end uni.

Like from a cynical perspective, roughly:

Tier 1: Cambridge, Oxford, LSE, Imperial, UCL
Tier 2: Manchester, Warwick, Edinburgh, Kings
Tier 3: Durham, Glasgow, Bristol, Birmingham, Southampton, Sheffield, Leeds, Nottingham, Liverpool, York, St. Andrews, Lancaster, Cardiff, Newcastle
Tier 4: Queen's Belfast, Leicester, Loughborough, Reading, Exeter, Bath, Queen Mary, Aberdeen

Would be - for example - the Universities that I would recommend to my children if I had children and raised them in the UK. And, tbh, I would guide them towards tier 1, 2 or 3 unless specific courses at a tier 4 or they really loved the place.

Ofc... then have some specific schools that are very highly regarded. Say Brunel University and Mech Eng degree there. Amongst others that for specific courses would be a good idea.

But - really - those ~30 (especially the 22 in the top 3) are the ones that you get the most "value" in terms of name recognition going forward.

It is snobby and awful. As you said there is better teaching at some of the Unis not as "highly regarded"... but that is the world we live in.

It matters, but it's more ranking than "name," though there's a strong correlation.
Top law firms hire from the top quarter to third of the top 15 law schools.
The top 20 MBA programs provide a significant salary boost and opportunity for the top jobs in finance, consulting, etc.
Top engineering schools BAs have a real edge in their job search.

However, at the undergraduate level it's more nuanced, the top entry level jobs go to elite school graduates, like Wall Street analysts, but b/c the US is so big, there are plenty of opportunities for state school graduates, and after you've been working five or so years, no one really cares where you went to school - except corporate law firms, who prize top of their class from top schools even when hiring lateral partners (though it's BS, success in law school, outside of Constitutional Law, is all memorization and regurgitation, I've worked with plenty of Harvard Law partners who weren't the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree).

And of course, in many professions, success in school only weakly correlates to success in life.
Joe Jamail, who's name is on the U Texas Law School Library (most successful tort Lawyer in America) flunked his first class in torts.
Joe Jamail, Flamboyant Texas Lawyer Who Won Billions for Clients, Dies at 90 (Published 2015)

Now in some fields it does matter, the key to Stanford is the network of Silicon Valley contacts that are available, which is why Stanford graduates dominate the IT field.

 

[Appleyard]

It matters, but it's more ranking than "name," though there's a strong correlation.
Top law firms hire from the top quarter to third of the top 15 law schools.
The top 20 MBA programs provide a significant salary boost and opportunity for the top jobs in finance, consulting, etc.
Top engineering schools BAs have a real edge in their job search.

However, at the undergraduate level it's more nuanced, the top entry level jobs go to elite school graduates, like Wall Street analysts, but b/c the US is so big, there are plenty of opportunities for state school graduates, and after you've been working five or so years, no one really cares where you went to school - except corporate law firms, who prize top of their class from top schools even when hiring lateral partners (though it's BS, success in law school, outside of Constitutional Law, is all memorization and regurgitation, I've worked with plenty of Harvard Law partners who weren't the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree).

And of course, in many professions, success in school only weakly correlates to success in life.
Joe Jamail, who's name is on the U Texas Law School Library (most successful tort Lawyer in America) flunked his first class in torts.
Joe Jamail, Flamboyant Texas Lawyer Who Won Billions for Clients, Dies at 90 (Published 2015)

Now in some fields it does matter, the key to Stanford is the network of Silicon Valley contacts that are available, which is why Stanford graduates dominate the IT field.

Makes sense.

And agree to a large extent on law. Having done a degree myself haha.

Though we do have a biiiiig emphasis on coursework and less exams. (and exams are effectively mostly blind, so you dont know which topics are coming up - in theory 3/7-9 topics that are relevant to that area will be presented, but if you have some nous can work out roughly what will come up and study half the amount).

So research and interpretation have a big part of it, if you cant do that and be creative and original in how to deal with fictional cases it is hard to get a 1st class degree in a good school.

Though pretty easy with a good memory and a decent understanding of probability to get a 2.1 without that much hard work aha.

 

[deadhead]

Makes sense.

And agree to a large extent on law. Having done a degree myself haha.

Though we do have a biiiiig emphasis on coursework and less exams. (and exams are effectively mostly blind, so you dont know which topics are coming up - in theory 3/7-9 topics that are relevant to that area will be presented, but if you have some nous can work out roughly what will come up and study half the amount).

So research and interpretation have a big part of it, if you cant do that and be creative and original in how to deal with fictional cases it is hard to get a 1st class degree in a good school.

Constitutional law in the US fills that role, unlike the English, who lack a final authority (common law balances tradition and expediency), the Constitution is the highest law in America, and in states, same thing, though state constitutions have to conform to the Federal Constitution where their authority overlaps. So while there are general rules of legal interpretation, the application of these rules to the Constitution is the key to understanding the foundation of US law.

I had Phil Bobbitt and Jack Balkin (who teaches at Yale), so I'm confident that my knowledge of Con Law matches up with any top Law School - but in the end, you only learn how to be a lawyer by practicing law, and understanding the difference between academic thinking and how cases get decided in the real world (my specialty is regulatory law, which I didn't study in Law School, so I had to teach myself Administrative Law - which is the heart of the "Deep State," the rules that govern how the government governs).

Legal thinking is different, but not "better," in fact lawyers are worse at research than academics or even journalists. In the US system you're supposed to be a vigorous advocate for your client, which basically encourages you to be a Sophist - which is why too many lawyers and legal academics cherry pick facts and arguments to support a preconceived conclusion. Academics are at least expected to give lip service to "objectivity," which may be unattainable but is a worthy ideal to pursue (and the pursuit disciplines your research by forcing you to face your intellectual and emotional prejudices).

 

[Psuhockey]

The primary value of a Yale and Harvard degree is the networking opportunities (also why the Marines are a good choice for working class kids, Marines tend to hire their own), obviously it helps to have George Bush, Al Gore or Zuckerberg as your college roommate or fraternity brother over Joe Schmo from Penn State. Since most of the students are from upper class or rich families, they have build in networks that are expanded by attending these schools.

The second benefit of an elite college is the peer pressure, I've taught at a couple colleges and the expectations aren't in the same league, students in an Ivy league school don't think twice about a 15 book reading list, my students balked at a 5 book reading list.

The teaching can be worse at a big research university b/c the top professors tend to teach graduate courses and have a light teaching load, but you can get exposed to top scholars in your advanced undergraduate courses.

A PhD is a mistake these days, since the 1980s, tenure track positions have been extremely difficult to obtain, and now are almost impossible, and outside of college teaching, a PhD has limited value. In business and consulting, doing original research isn't valued - what they want is "product", that is, fast turnaround, facile analysis - and because of age discrimination (which starts in your 30s), wasting too much time in academia can deep six your career (b/c if you come out at 30, there's some kid with similar work skills 5 years younger just behind you). MBA and law schools are better preparation for the shallow, quick turnaround work that is in demand, even in think tanks, most of the staff are MBA, MS and JDs, not PhDs.

Penn State No. 1 Among Recruiters, Wall Street Journal Finds — News

This school is No. 2 for graduating CEOs—and it's not Harvard, MIT or Wharton
Before you crap all over Penn State, you might want to know what you are talking about. You aren’t meeting George Bush there but you are graduating into a huge alumni network that takes care of its own. Give me someone poor smart and hungry over any pampered legacy from an Ivy League school that mommy and daddy pulled strings to get them into. Universities matter only as far as opening the door. Penn State has a crap ton of alumni holding those doors.

 

[deadhead]

Penn State No. 1 Among Recruiters, Wall Street Journal Finds — News

This school is No. 2 for graduating CEOs—and it's not Harvard, MIT or Wharton
Before you crap all over Penn State, you might want to know what you are talking about. You aren’t meeting George Bush there but you are graduating into a huge alumni network that takes care of its own. Give me someone poor smart and hungry over any pampered legacy from an Ivy League school that mommy and daddy pulled strings to get them into. Universities matter only as far as opening the door. Penn State has a crap ton of alumni holding those doors.

All the major state schools can provide the same opportunity in their local areas.
Texas A&M is half the size of U Texas but has a very strong alumni network, both schools have great value in Texas, which would be the 10th largest economy worldwide.
Even a school like Temple has a lot of value in the Philly area.
And as I pointed out, once you start working, the college you went to stops mattering after a few years.

Though as corporations become more MBA oriented, the undergraduate networks have less value. Traditionally, the CEOs of many major companies were graduates of Midwestern state schools (Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Iowa, etc.) who worked their way up the ladder - farm boys were preferred b/c they grew up working hard at a young age. In the energy industry, engineering majors from state schools dominated.

But good luck getting into a major NYC financial firm, now NYU (especially the Stern School) will open those doors, not so much Penn State.

The top state schools like Penn State, U Texas, Michigan, etc. have established honors programs that give their brightest students an edge getting into the top graduate and professional programs.

I have a family connection with Penn State, so I do not crap over that school, even though some of my family went to Temple, and I went to Penn. I've rooted for Penn State for decades.

 

[Psuhockey]

I went to Penn. .

That explains a lot.

 

[IronMarshal]

Penn State No. 1 Among Recruiters, Wall Street Journal Finds — News

This school is No. 2 for graduating CEOs—and it's not Harvard, MIT or Wharton
Before you crap all over Penn State, you might want to know what you are talking about. You aren’t meeting George Bush there but you are graduating into a huge alumni network that takes care of its own. Give me someone poor smart and hungry over any pampered legacy from an Ivy League school that mommy and daddy pulled strings to get them into. Universities matter only as far as opening the door. Penn State has a crap ton of alumni holding those doors.

I was going to refer him to PSU engineering. Though not as ballyhooed as MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton, Stanford, Georgia Tech, Lehigh, Drexel and maybe a few others, PSU has supplied the country with more engineers than any other school (it is a really big school, and so the numbers would be larger). When my son was accepted into the engineering program, they were advertising that 1 in 5 engineers in the US is a Penn State grad. That is a very impressive recruiting fact. PSU engineers get really good jobs, and the PSU alumni network is the largest and most active in the country and probably the world.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

How is it in the USA with Uni name recognition? Ofc I know it exists as I considered heading to the US when I was 18. But not sure to what extent.

In my experience, it's more of a networking thing than general recognition. Any "good" school is basically the same unless it's the exact correct one for the situation.

But as Deady said, there's a pretty big difference in the level of schooling in question. Not one person I know of has ever cared where I went to Undergrad, but where I got my MBA and am getting a PhD are brought up to me more often than I would have guessed before I got them.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I’d imagine degrees aren’t as valuable as they may seem for most college athletes. As beyond whether they have the academic chops to actually pursue a meaningful degree they might not have the time in their schedule to do so.

 

[skagittarius]

Now in some fields it does matter, the key to Stanford is the network of Silicon Valley contacts that are available, which is why Stanford graduates dominate the IT field.

Perhaps in Silicon Valley (although I doubt it), but that's not the case in Seattle where I've worked for the last 22 years. I've managed and hired dozens of sw developers, and where the candidate went to college was never much of a factor for me or my company. In fact, it's somewhat of a hindrance when staffing entry level positions as recent grads from top engineering schools tend to have significantly inflated (and unjustified) compensation demands.