Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [Late 2021 edition]

[deadhead]

Hextall did a great job of garnering draft picks, did OK but not spectacular using them.
Though the 2016 draft sucked, so missing on Rubtsov and Laberge but hitting on Alison and Hart isn't a bad outcome.
So far, Lindblom (bad luck) and Myers are the only "picks" past the 2nd rd to make the roster in 5 drafts.
But that may change in the next couple years.

The problem hasn't been development, every player who excelled before they came to the Flyers, except Ratcliffe, has made it to the NHL and started. The "failures" struggled at lower levels and didn't improve, but could anyone coach more out of Twarynski, Vorobyev, Dove-McFalls and Bunnaman?

 

[Flyerfan18]

High ankle sprain covers a really wide range of injury, but I don't think it needs a 12 month period for full recovery. That's more for ACL injuries.

Science of Sport: What a high-ankle sprain means for Jack Eichel - Sportsnet.ca

Eichel had one in mid-October at the start of the 16-17 season, and he still played 61 games and had 57 points. First game back was November 29th.

Jack Eichel Stats and News

Eichel then got a nother high ankle sprain on the opposite leg on February 10, 2018, and was back playing on March 17th.

Sabres' Eichel out indefinitely with high-ankle sprain

it doesn’t. What I meant was when was the last time any player came back from one and didn’t struggle the rest of the year? They are few and far between.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Foerster and Wisdom did surprisingly well in the AHL last season at age 19. York is at the beginning of his first true pro season except for a few games after leaving Michigan last year.

Might want to wait for their NHL careers before declaring them flops. To this point there's a lot of promise in Fletcher's drafts.

I never said flops.

You think Lappy is running a good development outfit in LHV? You think it's a coincidence that damned near all of the promising prospects flatline and Nashville is finding they have to take the time to fix a lot of basic stuff with Myers that we ignored? You think it coincidence we keep trying to turn players into what they aren't instead of taking advantage of what they are? The best thing that has happened to Frost is probably all these injuries forcing a callup against the incorrect wishes of management to keep them from bashing the "cute" out of him. They've been working as hard as they can to ruin him.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I never said flops.

You think Lappy is running a good development outfit in LHV? You think it's a coincidence that damned near all of the promising prospects flatline and Nashville is finding they have to take the time to fix a lot of basic stuff with Myers that we ignored? You think it coincidence we keep trying to turn players into what they aren't instead of taking advantage of what they are? The best thing that has happened to Frost is probably all these injuries forcing a callup against the incorrect wishes of management to keep them from bashing the "cute" out of him. They've been working as hard as they can to ruin him.

I think it’s wrong to dismiss what appears so far to be good drafting simply because you don’t like the team’s AHL coach.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think it’s wrong to dismiss what appears so far to be good drafting simply because you don’t like the team’s AHL coach.

The AHL coach is just one aspect of the problem.

The steady trading of lots of picks diminishes that skill. There is no denying that. It was the big problem with Homer; drafting and scouting were his strengths, and he completely nullified them. If Fletcher is good at drafting, he nullifies that by bleeding picks away on a pile of trash and then by overseeing a development process that gets the least out of prospective talent. It's not a coincidence that the talent in Minnesota didn't start taking off until someone competent took over.

These are facts. Why ignore facts?

 

[renberg]

Flahr? What's wrong with the drafting the last three seasons?

Flahr indicating that Frost wasn’t ready a day or so before he came up makes me question his player evaluation skills. Flahr also should have been pushing Vigneault to be using York and Zamula coming out of camp instead of the rot that became the third pair.

 

[Magua]

Not surprising when you give up the 13th pick for a rental and scream "bad draft".

This still triggers me to no end. Fletcher was chomping at the bit to trade that pick, even if it was for someone more useful than Ristolainen. He outright called it a weak draft, which honestly, screams red flag. This was a historically imprecise draft. Fletcher and Flahr chose the blandest players imaginable, who actually played (this organization does love its COVID excuse). And they avoided the CHL like the plague, except for a horrific skating defender and a UDFA signing.

It's a worthless class besides Tuomaala, who does have bust potential. I do know he hits the lazy scout's checklist that is good skating + good shot + productive u18s. We said it at the time: it's like they didn't even try.

Cossa/Wallstedt, Lysell, Svechkov, Samoskevich, Dean, Zellwegger, Pastujov, Morrow, Stankoven......all guys (minus goalies) we had in like top ~20. Fletcher could've had 2-3 of those guys without question. The man is allergic to pick quantity. For the most part, drafts don't vary outside the top 10 or so. It doesn't come down to bad drafts; it comes down to bad picks. There are always future studs, and I can guarantee some of these players qualify.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

This still triggers me to no end. Fletcher was chomping at the bit to trade that pick, even if it was for someone more useful than Ristolainen. He outright called it a weak draft, which honestly, screams red flag. This was a historically imprecise draft. Fletcher and Flahr chose the blandest players imaginable, who actually played (this organization does love its COVID excuse). And they avoided the CHL like the plague, except for a horrific skating defender and a UDFA signing.

It's a worthless class besides Tuomaala, who does have bust potential. I do know he hits the lazy scout's checklist that is good skating + good shot + productive u18s. We said it at the time: it's like they didn't even try.

Cossa/Wallstedt, Lysell, Svechkov, Samoskevich, Dean, Zellwegger, Pastujov, Morrow, Stankoven......all guys (minus goalies) we had in like top ~20. Fletcher could've had 2-3 of those guys without question. The man is allergic to pick quantity. For the most part, drafts don't vary outside the top 10 or so. It doesn't come down to bad drafts; it comes down to bad picks. There are always future studs, and I can guarantee some of these players qualify.

I feel people still base the drafts based on the top of the draft which obviously last year wasn’t great. 2013 was hyped up for its depth but it ultimately was really not much different in the end in terms of success as the draft moved. MacKinnon, Jones, & Drouin at the top likely skewed the perception of the draft.

Now 2015 absolutely looks a bit different but still on the outlier side. Even the 2012 draft which produced some of the worst results in the top ten in the last decade (especially at #1) still has some noteworthy hits as the draft moves on.

 

[deadhead]

Drafts differ drastically in terms of depth - just go back and look at drafts and see how many quality players were in each round - some years they're sparse, others plenty in the 2nd and even the 3rd rd.

So far, on paper, those "marginal" D-men seem to be doing alright, and Fletcher did focus on late birthdays, given the impact of COVID on development, that's betting on upside v age 17 production.

Zanetti (March) 17g 0-9 9
Samson (August) 22g 2-10 12
McLaughlin (March) 21g 8-14 22 (USHL)
Avon (July) 20g 12-13 25

Nor is this a new trend
Wisdom (July)
McClennon (June)
Brink (July)
Millman (July)

 

[Flyerfan18]

The AHL coach is just one aspect of the problem.

The steady trading of lots of picks diminishes that skill. There is no denying that. It was the big problem with Homer; drafting and scouting were his strengths, and he completely nullified them. If Fletcher is good at drafting, he nullifies that by bleeding picks away on a pile of trash and then by overseeing a development process that gets the least out of prospective talent. It's not a coincidence that the talent in Minnesota didn't start taking off until someone competent took over.

These are facts. Why ignore facts?

Beef give it a rest. We have barely traded any picks prior to this year. Stick to facts. Not fiction.

who cares what got traded away in 2021. Many players barely played, many not even a game. This past draft was a complete crapshoot. Should have traded every one of our picks away.

so the development hasn’t been affected at all to this point by trading picks.

And who flamed out? Frost I guess. You can’t hit on them all. Rubtsov, Laberge and a few others I’m too lazy to look up where already trending bust before they got to the Flyers. They showed bust while still in JR

 

[Striiker]

Beef give it a rest. We have barely traded any picks prior to this year. Stick to facts. Not fiction.

who cares what got traded away in 2021. Many players barely played, many not even a game. This past draft was a complete crapshoot. Should have traded every one of our picks away.

so the development hasn’t been affected at all to this point by trading picks.

And who flamed out? Frost I guess. You can’t hit on them all. Rubtsov, Laberge and a few others I’m too lazy to look up where already trending bust before they got to the Flyers. They showed bust while still in JR

Holy shit

It’s like someone took Hatcher and forced him to complete a couple English classes.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I feel people still base the drafts based on the top of the draft which obviously last year wasn’t great. 2013 was hyped up for its depth but it ultimately was really not much different in the end in terms of success as the draft moved. MacKinnon, Jones, & Drouin at the top likely skewed the perception of the draft.

Now 2015 absolutely looks a bit different but still on the outlier side. Even the 2012 draft which produced some of the worst results in the top ten in the last decade (especially at #1) still has some noteworthy hits as the draft moves on.

I’m obviously more so talking the post lock out/internet age as well where things have drastically changed. A low upside player today is way different than a low upside player even like five years ago let alone beyond that. Players get better, some don’t, & you still off evaluations but for the most part nobody completely flys under the radar because nobody really even knows they exist like 20-25+ years ago.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Beef give it a rest. We have barely traded any picks prior to this year. Stick to facts. Not fiction.

who cares what got traded away in 2021. Many players barely played, many not even a game. This past draft was a complete crapshoot. Should have traded every one of our picks away.

so the development hasn’t been affected at all to this point by trading picks.

And who flamed out? Frost I guess. You can’t hit on them all. Rubtsov, Laberge and a few others I’m too lazy to look up where already trending bust before they got to the Flyers. They showed bust while still in JR

I remember when this exact same thing about picks was said to me about Holmgren, and I was right. Trading that many first and seconds to accommodate a terrible rental is horrible management and a blow to the prospect stream. Kind of amazing how people never learn from being wrong. Also amazing how you people are proclaiming Fletcher a draft when he hasnt shown a scrap of ability to develop any of it into actual NHL players.

Frost flamed out? When? Luckily, enough of the slobs got hurt that he was able to escape the horrible development process before they could finish ruining him. You've gotta be so mad watching him prove you wrong shift after shift. Is that why you seem to bitter whenever you mention him?

 

[Flyerfan18]

I remember when this exact same thing about picks was said to me about Holmgren, and I was right. Trading that many first and seconds to accommodate a terrible rental is horrible management and a blow to the prospect stream. Kind of amazing how people never learn from being wrong. Also amazing how you people are proclaiming Fletcher a draft when he hasnt shown a scrap of ability to develop any of it into actual NHL players.

Frost flamed out? When? Luckily, enough of the slobs got hurt that he was able to escape the horrible development process before they could finish ruining him. You've gotta be so mad watching him prove you wrong shift after shift. Is that why you seem to bitter whenever you mention him?

why would I be mad if Frost succeeds? I’m a Flyers fan. Problem is he has mostly looked terrible since his call up.

 

[Beef Invictus]

why would I be mad if Frost succeeds? I’m a Flyers fan. Problem is he has mostly looked terrible since his call up.

Well, thanks for confirming you're in the Flahr/Fletcher school of player evaluation.

 

[Appleyard]

why would I be mad if Frost succeeds? I’m a Flyers fan. Problem is he has mostly looked terrible since his call up.

He has been one of their best forwards since coming up...

 

[Rodu58]

Twarynski, Vorobyev, Dove-McFalls and Bunnaman?

I feel that Hextall went with safer picks, rather than going after boom or bust types, but you don't draft players to be 4th liners

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

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