Phaneuf or Kessel

[hullsy47]

I voted to keep Kessel because of how can you replace 30 + goal seasons he keeps putting up.

However part of me also thinks for the games when Phaneuf looked horrible, I think their Defenese in general will look a lot worse with him not on the team.

u could sign a jason blake type ......dont sell phaneuf short,he plays a bit too much but hes no *****
just the fact that about 50% leafs nation wouldnt care if kessel got traded ,speaks volumes ,he shouldnt get off scott free .

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

As much as people are saying trade Phaneuf, I believe that he is a solid D if he plays between 20-22 mins a game. We need to bring in another guy that will help him out.

 

[91Kadri91*]

As much as people are saying trade Phaneuf, I believe that he is a solid D if he plays between 20-22 mins a game. We need to bring in another guy that will help him out.

You don't pay a defenseman 7 million dollars to play 20-22 minutes a game.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

You don't pay a defenseman 7 million dollars to play 20-22 minutes a game.

He actually performs better with more minutes. You need to give him an all-round puck moving type as a partner.

 

[Dirty Dan]

Keep Phanuef, you don't win the cup with wingers. We need to dress 10 defenceman and play them on the wings.

 

[91Kadri91*]

He actually performs better with more minutes. You need to give him an all-round puck moving type as a partner.

He does perform better with more minutes, but he still performs poorly against top competition.

It's easy to say that he needs an all-around puck-moving defenseman capable of playing top minutes, but how exactly do we acquire that? I saw you mention Roman Josi in another thread, but I don't think you understand how valuable he is. He has a cap-hit of 4 million for the next six seasons, and he looks well on his way to becoming a legitimate #1 defenseman (and is already a 23 year old top-pairing one). The cost to acquire him would be ridiculously high.

I'm hopeful that Rielly can become a #1, but that's far from a guarantee. Even if he does, I really don't see Phaneuf being an ideal partner, and Dion's not a guy that is going to age well. I'm not saying we should trade Phaneuf just for the sake of it, but if we can acquire a quality piece for him (even if we have to retain some salary), then I would definitely be in favour of trading him.

Edit: I just noticed that you mentioned Josi in this thread; my bad. The point still stands though.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Deal anyone if this improves the team, longterm or midterm or short-term.

There are no favourites when you do not make the playoffs.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

He does perform better with more minutes, but he still performs poorly against top competition.

It's easy to say that he needs an all-around puck-moving defenseman capable of playing top minutes, but how exactly do we acquire that? I saw you mention Roman Josi in another thread, but I don't think you understand how valuable he is. He has a cap-hit of 4 million for the next six seasons, and he looks well on his way to becoming a legitimate #1 defenseman (and is already a 23 year old top-pairing one). The cost to acquire him would be ridiculously high.

I'm hopeful that Rielly can become a #1, but that's far from a guarantee. Even if he does, I really don't see Phaneuf being an ideal partner, and Dion's not a guy that is going to age well. I'm not saying we should trade Phaneuf just for the sake of it, but if we can acquire a quality piece for him (even if we have to retain some salary), then I would definitely be in favour of trading him.

Edit: I just noticed that you mentioned Josi in this thread; my bad. The point still stands though.

I wouldn't say that his performance is poor. He was expected to generate virtually all of that creative and produced pretty will on the offensive side. This goes well beyond the use of statistics. We just don't have the legitimate support up front to play a defensively responsible brand of hockey. This is a team sport after all.

However ,I do agree that getting that kind of defenceman that'll aid Phaneuf is probably going to require one of Gardiner or Rielly to really step up their game next season. I am not sure if that will occur. In fact ,I'd argue that we acquired Dion way too early, and he would look more attractive with a more mature core.

Regardless, trading him for scraps would just be outright moronic. We seem to have a track record for doing that as well. He's obviously going to thrive elsewhere, when played to his strength. Get a good return or play him for a year, with Rielly, and just lighten the load. He's going to rebound with a bit lighter minutes and then we'll be able to trade him for an excellent return.

PS: Josi is more of a fantasy. I doubt he'd be traded. If anything, we'll have to move Kessel for him. Anyhow, I don't think we're going to opt for a rebuild.

 

[Faltorvo]

I wouldn't say that his performance is poor. He was expected to generate virtually all of that creative and produced pretty will on the offensive side. This goes well beyond the use of statistics. We just don't have the legitimate support up front to play a defensively responsible brand of hockey. This is a team sport after all.

However ,I do agree that getting that kind of defenceman that'll aid Phaneuf is probably going to require one of Gardiner or Rielly to really step up their game next season. I am not sure if that will occur. In fact ,I'd argue that we acquired Dion way too early, and he would look more attractive with a more mature core.

Regardless, trading him for scraps would just be outright moronic. We seem to have a track record for doing that as well. He's obviously going to thrive elsewhere, when played to his strength. Get a good return or play him for a year, with Rielly, and just lighten the load. He's going to rebound with a bit lighter minutes and then we'll be able to trade him for an excellent return.

PS: Josi is more of a fantasy. I doubt he'd be traded. If anything, we'll have to move Kessel for him. Anyhow, I don't think we're going to opt for a rebuild.

you do realise how pathetic this sounds , right?

get our 2nd year, 20 year old kid to lighten the load of the 5th highest D cap hit in the entire league, just effen wow man, pathetic

 

[The_Chosen_One]

you do realise how pathetic this sounds , right?

get our 2nd year, 20 year old kid to lighten the load of the 5th highest D cap hit in the entire league, just effen wow man, pathetic

We signed Phaneuf with the expectation that he was going to be supplemented with a puck stabiliser like Aucoin. Don't expect Phaneuf to turn into a PMD all of the sudden, because that won't be happening. We may even end up making a Andrej Meszaros-esque trade to enablet hat.

You're the one who is pathetic. If we're not going to rebuild, when in the hell is Phaneuf going to be moved? Getting a #1D is going to be extremely difficult to acquire. No one is going to expect Karlsson to be an all-round defenceman so why should Phaneuf play a role that never fitted him. He's more of a shooter, he needs to be paired with an average PMD. It's not like he needs Shattenkirk, but if Gardiner can be the main PMD and generate 30-points, he'd be fine.

 

[Faltorvo]

We signed Phaneuf with the expectation that he was going to be supplemented with a puck stabiliser like Aucoin. Don't expect Phaneuf to turn into a PMD all of the sudden, because that won't be happening. We may even end up making a Andrej Meszaros-esque trade to enablet hat.

You're the one who is pathetic. If we're not going to rebuild, when in the hell is Phaneuf going to be moved? Getting a #1D is going to be extremely difficult to acquire. No one is going to expect Karlsson to be an all-round defenceman so why should Phaneuf play a role that never fitted him. He's more of a shooter, he needs to be paired with an average PMD. It's not like he needs Shattenkirk, but if Gardiner can be the main PMD and generate 30-points, he'd be fine.

I don't know who you think you are talking to but I'm 110% behind a blow it up rebuild.

I think it's a pathetic strategy to try and fix this around dions impressive 7m 5th highest D cap hit in the league.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

I'd keep Kessel but Ideally I would trade both for the right package. These 2 aren't the corner pieces that will win you a championship.

It was said early.

Hard to have a debate beyond this statement. Both Dion and Kessel are assets, but not good enough to build around (heart & fiercely competitive).

 

[ShaneFalco]

I'd keep Kessel.
It's no easy task, but not having a legit #1 centre (fro him to play with) since Sundin? C'mon!?

Phaneuf has just been here for too many breakdowns/collapses and not the guy I want leading the team for the next 7 years.

But blame management again for not getting him a legit #2 guy to work with.
Instead we sign guys like Clarkson, and trade for Bolland

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I don't know who you think you are talking to but I'm 110% behind a blow it up rebuild.

I think it's a pathetic strategy to try and fix this around dions impressive 7m 5th highest D cap hit in the league.

His cap hit really isn't negotiable. I could've seen him getting that contract on another team, and unlike here, he'd be a lot better complimented. I could see him fit on many teams and while I also support a rebuild, I can't see it happening.

We're likely going to build around him. He always played on dysfunctional teams and yet his offensive numbers, minutes were quite strong. I'd argue that much like Beauchemin, his performance would improve immensely elsewhere. He was a total defensive zone disaster on the Leafs and yet thrives in Anaheim. I think we'll see a new system and more two-way forwards up front.

 

[rdawg1234]

We're likely going to build around him. He always played on dysfunctional teams and yet his offensive numbers, minutes were quite strong. I'd argue that much like Beauchemin, his performance would improve immensely elsewhere. He was a total defensive zone disaster on the Leafs and yet thrives in Anaheim. I think we'll see a new system and more two-way forwards up front.

Two-way forward support and better defensive partners.

Our forwards are lazy and don't support their defence and having a guy like Franson as your partner is going to make you look bad.

 

[Gamble9]

I'd keep Dion because If we are looking for a 1c and a retool he is defiantly the highest value and would bring back the best return I think a deal around him and bozak for a upgrade a center and a downgrade on wing would make sense. I also think Dion has the ability to be great if we pair him with a real top pairing defensemen I think much of the Dion wears down with more minutes has to do with poor team d and the fact he doesn't have a decent top pairing partner and never has

 

[Gamble9]

kessel and bozak for couture and burns if san jo looses out in the first round a shake up could happen kessel can play in the playoffs and bozak could be a excellent three c option for san jo just dreaming but I would be so happy

 

[DaveT83*]

Get rid of both of them.

You don't even need a return, the team would improve by their subtractions alone.

 

[Marr]

Get rid of both of them.

You don't even need a return, the team would improve by their subtractions alone.

This is a joke, right?

 

[Leafidelity]

You keep both unless your plan is sabotage. But for this exercise I'd pick Kessel because he's closer to the top echelon of his position.

You don't trade your best players and get better, you improve your team's weaknesses around them. I'm not interested in plugging one hole by making another.

 

[Leafidelity]

double post

 

[Faltorvo]

His cap hit really isn't negotiable. I could've seen him getting that contract on another team, and unlike here, he'd be a lot better complimented. I could see him fit on many teams and while I also support a rebuild, I can't see it happening.

We're likely going to build around him. He always played on dysfunctional teams and yet his offensive numbers, minutes were quite strong. I'd argue that much like Beauchemin, his performance would improve immensely elsewhere. He was a total defensive zone disaster on the Leafs and yet thrives in Anaheim. I think we'll see a new system and more two-way forwards up front.

A bad contract is a bad contract TCO, I don't care what another stupid GM is willing to offer , he is not worth the 5th highest D cap hit in the entire league, period, end of story.

Dave no no and other management had since July 1 of last year to figure it out.

When your captain , your supposed leader and example setter demands a ridiculous contract like that, you cut bait and trade his greedy a$$.

Bergeron just inked for 6.5m , in what sane world in neon dion worth 0.5m MORE cap hit?

But I get it, ownership got a tastes of the POs under spurious conditions and as usual lost their collective minds as soon as that extra lucre got dangled.


inking Dion , inking clarktard , trading for bolo , blowing both our compliance buy outs.

Pathetic.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Dion is not a bad player, but I do think it is time to find a new identity for this team. But who would want him for 7M and he has a LNTC, in order for Rielly to be the man on this team one day, Dion will have to go.

I would rather put my faith in Rielly, Finn, Granberg and Percy as the core of this defence one day, this can only happen if you take Dion out of the equation.