Phaneuf or Kessel

[-DeMo-]

Columbus traded a Nash who only put up 59 points in his final full season, and who was going to refuse to re-sign long term.

Anisimov, Dubinsky and Erixon are all easily replaceable pieces that could be had in FA.

Cbj would undoubtedly be better off with Nash in the lineup right now.

go watch Dubinsky play and come back and say that, Nash also signed an 8 year contract 2 years prior to being traded he still had 6 years left on his contract.

when they traded Nash they changed the culture of the team, everyone wasn't waiting for Nash to do all the work and win them games, they changed to a term who had no choice but to work hard and play great defense inorder to win. without that culture change they might be worst off right now.

 

[Trapper]

Settling with a top 10 offensive player?

Well I guess there's always Crosby, Stamkos and Malkin out there so maybe we are settling

I'd rather both Marchand and Gallagher at the price of Kessel any day AINEC.

 

[blueberrie]

I'd keep Kessel out of the two of them, but I'm not convinced that they're the franchise forward and defence men you end your rebuild with.

Ideally one of them is gone this offseason. Missing playoffs next year with both of them and Clarkson with 7 year NTC would be a nightmare.

 

[blueberrie]

go watch Dubinsky play and come back and say that, Nash also signed an 8 year contract 2 years prior to being traded he still had 6 years left on his contract.

when they traded Nash they changed the culture of the team, everyone wasn't waiting for Nash to do all the work and win them games, they changed to a term who had no choice but to work hard and play great defense inorder to win. without that culture change they might be worst off right now.

Boston fans talk pretty fondly of the Thornton trade. It brought a culture change to the organization and changed their dynamic. I hope we can do the same in the future, even if we get hosed on a potential Kessel deal.

 

[Atomos2]

I'd rather both Marchand and Gallagher at the price of Kessel any day AINEC.

Nice joke. Instead of blaming our best player on the team start blaming our crappy defence. I'm shocked that we have so many Kessel threads and absolutely NO Franson threads. He get out of this scot free while the player who showed the most frustration and passion during the slump gets all the blame.

 

[Trapper]

Nice joke. Instead of blaming our best player on the team start blaming our crappy defence. I'm shocked that we have so many Kessel threads and absolutely NO Franson threads. He get out of this scot free while the player who showed the most frustration and passion during the slump gets all the blame.

I'm not blaming Kessel at all. He is a fine 30 goal sniper. Ovi is a fine 50 goal sniper. They are both only one player on a team of 23. However IMO (not yours) I'd rather Marchand and Galagher over either. The two of them instead of one of either. You can rather have Kessel in your opinion. That's fine too.

 

[TheScruffington]

I'm shocked that we have so many Kessel threads and absolutely NO Franson threads. He get out of this scot free while the player who showed the most frustration and passion during the slump gets all the blame.

I think that's because pretty much everyone understands how bad he is and how he's probably going to go in the offseason lol.

 

[Trapper]

I think that's because pretty much everyone understands how bad he is and how he's probably going to go in the offseason lol.

Exactly. People disagree on Kadri,Kessel,Phaneuf but for once I think this board might actually all agree on one player.

 

[Bomber0104]

People need to stop equating Rick Nash and Phil Kessel. Only one of those two players is a regular top NHL scorer. Rick Nash has never had an 80 point season and has hit 70 only once in his career.

enough already.

Toews has never hit 80 points and 70 only once.

Yet no one in the hockey universe picks Kessel over Toews.

Hockey isn't about points. It's about winning.

Toews is a winner. Kessel is not.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I'd trade anyone given the return.

 

[MakeTheIronSing]

One of the best right wingers in the game, or one of the move overrated #1D in the game?

Tough call.

 

[Stephen]

I don't feel too attached to either player. Phaneuf is going to get run out of town the way he's wetting the bed every year, but is life all that great with Kessel as our best player? Very hot streaks sandwiched between devastating cold streaks and a somewhat embarrassing public persona to be the face of the franchise. We can do a lot better.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

I'd keep Kessel but Ideally I would trade both for the right package. These 2 aren't the corner pieces that will win you a championship.

Kessel for right package yes.

Phaneuf on the other hand for a bag of pucks. Get him out of here

 

[diceman934]

Everyone who reads this forum on a semi regular basis knows my answer if we had to pick.

I would trade the one that needs to go and see what happens....

 

[JAMmer124]

Toews has never hit 80 points and 70 only once.

Yet no one in the hockey universe picks Kessel over Toews.

Hockey isn't about points. It's about winning.

Toews is a winner. Kessel is not.

Uhh, thats great and all, but no one was talking about Toews, and if your equating Rick Nash to Toews then that discounts your opinion entirely. Toews and Kessel are not at all comparable, but Nash and Kessel are similar players. Dynamic offensive guys that score lots of goals, but have clear issues in their games.



Oh, and Rick Nash has never won a damn thing in this league. He was in Columbus for how long, and they went to the playoffs ONCE and got SWEPT. Kessel's track record with the Leafs may not be great, but its a helluva lot better than Nash's. Dude's been overrated forever.

 

[pooleboy]

I'd rather both Marchand and Gallagher at the price of Kessel any day AINEC.

i agree, id rather have someone score 45 goals while there on and 25 goals aggainst (example) rather than someone who scores 100 goals but gets scored on 125 times.

but omg he scored 100? so? he let in -25.

i am not one for +/- because it can be a skewd stat, but if ur constantly a minus player it should tell you something (especially when there was only 2 minus players in like the top 30 scoring with kessel and ovie... wonder if there are similarities there?)

 

[William Hylander]

This team needs a culture change to be successful, and like the Bruins we should trade kessel for a nice return given that he has no clue defensively.

He isn't the sort of player that I think you can easily build a defensive team around.

 

[Community]

i agree, id rather have someone score 45 goals while there on and 25 goals aggainst (example) rather than someone who scores 100 goals but gets scored on 125 times.

but omg he scored 100? so? he let in -25.

i am not one for +/- because it can be a skewd stat, but if ur constantly a minus player it should tell you something (especially when there was only 2 minus players in like the top 30 scoring with kessel and ovie... wonder if there are similarities there?)

For being somebody that is "not one for +/-", why would you bring up the +/- then? Kessel's was a -5 on a team that was -25... It's much more reasonable to compare a player's +/- to his team's total or his team-mates then to just compare from one team to another.

For example, Kane was +7 on a Blackhawk team that was +47... I'd consider that worse than Kessel's -5 on a -25 team, but Kane won't get any flak because his team as a whole is better. Kane was 12th in +/- on his team, Kessel was 8th (counting players that played 50+ games).

Edit: Ovechkin was also -35 on a team that was -5... much different than Kessel's scenario.

 

[Confucius]

For being somebody that is "not one for +/-", why would you bring up the +/- then? Kessel's was a -5 on a team that was -25... It's much more reasonable to compare a player's +/- to his team's total or his team-mates then to just compare from one team to another.

For example, Kane was +7 on a Blackhawk team that was +47... I'd consider that worse than Kessel's -5 on a -25 team, but Kane won't get any flak because his team as a whole is better. Kane was 12th in +/- on his team, Kessel was 8th (counting players that played 50+ games).

Edit: Ovechkin was also -35 on a team that was -5... much different than Kessel's scenario.

I agree with the above. Another thing to consider is empty net goals. The players on the ice still get penalized when an empty netter is scored. Who is on the ice more times than not in the last minute of a game when we are trying to tie it up to send it to OT? Oh and coincidentally we were tied for giving up the most empty netters At 12. Gee another coincidence if we don't hold it against Kessel for emptynetters and he indeed was on the ice all 12 times his -5 becomes a +7, playing on a much worse defensive team than Mr kane.

Chicago gave up 4 empty netters, not saying Kane is on the ice protecting a lead in the dying minute just pointing out the difference.

Edit to add: Both teams scored 8 so that part becomes a sawoff.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Kessel > Phaneuf.

One has elite qualities, the other is a inconsistent all-round, #1D. I'd say Chara, Suter, Kieth, Piets, Weber have elite qualities as #1Ds. I also expect 23-24 years old like Josi, McDonagh and Brodin to possibly enter that club.

Kessel isn't great defensively, but mighty versatile. He could score in all situations and is just a nuisance in line matching battles. His production won't rival Malkin and it'll be exceed by Tavares, but I'll give him extra points there.

As for who to trade? Moving Phaneuf means we're tanking. I'd rather send out Kessel as well. If we can somehow acquire someone like Roman Josi ( still undervalued), he'd immediately replace Phaneuf. It'll be the first time in ages when we had a young, soon-to-be-elite all-round defenceman.

Just imagine...

JVR - Couturier - Kessel

Ladd - Kadri - Brodie

Leivo - Holland - Ashton

D'Amigo - Carrick - EL

Josi - Rielly

Gunnarsson - Gardiner/ Granberg

Ranger - Percy?

I'm not sure what would be required to acquire the forwards, but that would be a contending team without Phaneuf IMO. If required, Josi and Gunnarsson can be dealt in more defensive roles, but I can see Rielly being extremely successful with Josi.

 

[Al14]

I can't vote!!! Trade both should have been an option along with trade neither!

I'd TRADE BOTH for the right returns!

 

[Al14]

I don't feel too attached to either player. Phaneuf is going to get run out of town the way he's wetting the bed every year, but is life all that great with Kessel as our best player? Very hot streaks sandwiched between devastating cold streaks and a somewhat embarrassing public persona to be the face of the franchise. We can do a lot better.

 

[TheScruffington]

For being somebody that is "not one for +/-", why would you bring up the +/- then? Kessel's was a -5 on a team that was -25... It's much more reasonable to compare a player's +/- to his team's total or his team-mates then to just compare from one team to another.

For example, Kane was +7 on a Blackhawk team that was +47... I'd consider that worse than Kessel's -5 on a -25 team, but Kane won't get any flak because his team as a whole is better. Kane was 12th in +/- on his team, Kessel was 8th (counting players that played 50+ games).

Edit: Ovechkin was also -35 on a team that was -5... much different than Kessel's scenario.

I could be misunderstanding this, but I think his overall point wasn't that he'd rather have a player with a better +/- but that he'd rather have a player that can play both defense and offense effectively. Forwards that dominate in puck possession, don't giveaway the puck too often, force turnovers, block shots, kill penalties, etc.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I could be misunderstanding this, but I think his overall point wasn't that he'd rather have a player with a better +/- but that he'd rather have a player that can play both defense and offense effectively. Forwards that dominate in puck possession, don't giveaway the puck too often, force turnovers, block shots, kill penalties, etc.

That is true to an extent. It's quite difficult to blame Kessel for the poorer GvA:TvA ratio, though. For instance, Patrick Kane posted a stronger ratio than Toews. While I don't view Kane and Kessel as identical, neither spend much time on SH.

Obviously, Toews is better to build around than Kessel, but give him a better system ( stronger linemates) and he'll thrive. I could see him posting Kane-esque numbers without the puck .

 

[Faltorvo]

Both gone and i'll even be nice, send Bozo where ever you ship kessel.