Pre-Game Talk: PGT/Offseason Thread UPDATE: Season postponed

[Super Cake]

Certainly live.....I hope they at least stage empty arena best-of-3 playoffs......

I mean i hope they bring it back.

Cause if they just cancel the entire season and start again next fall, then the Knights just wasted assets for 3 games of Lehner. lol

And with the cap maybe going down this year due to the coronavirus, there is no way they will be able to keep him.

 

[CupInSIX]

Certainly live.....I hope they at least stage empty arena best-of-3 playoffs......

As the months go by we'll see wilder scenarios like best of 5, then best of 3, then no wildcard teams, then top 8 teams in the league, then 1 game series...

I guess if you removed the wildcard teams one team gets a bye in the 2nd round?


At a certain point the owners are likely to just say 'screw it' and cancel the season if they don't get the ticket revenue.

 

[hangman005]

Wow the whole League took some time off for Wild Wills baby

 

[Nevada Jones]

I have so been waiting to use this!

 

[hangman005]

I have so been waiting to use this!

 

[theslatcher]

Timely injury, Patches(and to a smaller extent, Stone)!

 

[LadyStanley]

Sigh

 

[VEGASKING]

Oh damn. The Rio, where you can catch Legionnaires disease.

 

[Nevada Jones]

Kinda wishing we had kept Turk and Subban, blown up the roster, tanked and been last place right now. For the draft picks, ya know.

 

[Vegan Knight]

If the entire season were cancelled, how do they do the draft?

Can't do it from league position because playoffs were not played and no one would be a Cup winner. And the difference in games played. If they aren't awarding teams titles then it should be a random draw, possibly what they did at the lockout draft. Sucks for crappy teams but that would be the only fair way.

Could possibly say the bottom ten teams get small increases odds but not many.

 

[sabresfan65]

If the entire season were cancelled, how do they do the draft?

Can't do it from league position because playoffs were not played and no one would be a Cup winner. And the difference in games played. If they aren't awarding teams titles then it should be a random draw, possibly what they did at the lockout draft. Sucks for crappy teams but that would be the only fair way.

Could possibly say the bottom ten teams get small increases odds but not many.

My guess is they would use point percentages to determine rankings then award lottery % from that. There might be an extension of the teams involved or they could go back to the if you win you move up so many spots in the lottery. Like if Boston were to get drawn with their 0.2% they would move from 31 to 21 or something to that effect. If you were in the top 15 you would go to 1, 2, or 3 and if you were in the "playoff spots" you would move up 10 spots or something. Maybe they even draw for 4 or 5 spots instead of 3.

 

[Vegan Knight]

My guess is they would use point percentages to determine rankings then award lottery % from that. There might be an extension of the teams involved or they could go back to the if you win you move up so many spots in the lottery. Like if Boston were to get drawn with their 0.2% they would move from 31 to 21 or something to that effect. If you were in the top 15 you would go to 1, 2, or 3 and if you were in the "playoff spots" you would move up 10 spots or something. Maybe they even draw for 4 or 5 spots instead of 3.

That totally screws the good teams though. It doesn't matter if a team had a poor season or a good one, everyone's ended the same without playoffs. So, I think the only fair thing would be a random draw for all spots. If they want to give slightly increased odds based on standings I think that could work but the good teams don't get the reward for a good season so the bad teams shouldn't get the reward for a bad one.

 

[IceNeophyte]

That totally screws the good teams though. It doesn't matter if a team had a poor season or a good one, everyone's ended the same without playoffs. So, I think the only fair thing would be a random draw for all spots. If they want to give slightly increased odds based on standings I think that could work but the good teams don't get the reward for a good season so the bad teams shouldn't get the reward for a bad one.

The idea behind parity is that those with the least successful teams have the best odds to pull a high draft pick. Enough of the season has progressed so that can be roughly determined. In the eyes of parity, Red Wings need talent, Boston does not.

 

[Vegan Knight]

The idea behind parity is that those with the least successful teams have the best odds to pull a high draft pick. Enough of the season has progressed so that can be roughly determined. In the eyes of parity, Red Wings need talent, Boston does not.

Doesn't matter. Boston loses the ability to cash in on that and a year of their players prime and their draft picks they gave for rentals. Not to mention being cap strapped the next season.

Parity is a nice goal but fairness is the crux of what sports legitimacy is about.

There's no way to determine odds of what would have happened. Some teams played more road or home games, some played more games. Some teams played the most brutal parts of their schedule. There was still over ten games left (a big chunk of season) for things to change. The picks are based off who finished where in the playoffs, how can you say more than a handful of teams were out of it? And how can you say one team or another would have lost before the conference finals?

Way too many variables for anything other than an even odds lottery.

 

[IceNeophyte]

Doesn't matter. Boston loses the ability to cash in on that and a year of their players prime and their draft picks they gave for rentals. Not to mention being cap strapped the next season.

Parity is a nice goal but fairness is the crux of what sports legitimacy is about.

There's no way to determine odds of what would have happened. Some teams played more road or home games, some played more games. Some teams played the most brutal parts of their schedule. There was still over ten games left (a big chunk of season) for things to change. The picks are based off who finished where in the playoffs, how can you say more than a handful of teams were out of it? And how can you say one team or another would have lost before the conference finals?

Way too many variables for anything other than an even odds lottery.

There's only one champion, so why are the other 15 playoff teams not awarded lottery balls? You're waging a red herring argument. The logic is that if a team is good enough to get into the playoffs, it doesn't require the benefit of the draft lottery. This is completely irrespective of who wins the Cup or if anyone wins the cup, and there is enough of a season record to roughly determine who the bottom 15 teams are.

 

[theslatcher]

The draft will be fun because now teams can't go by the U18's which they oh so love to do. Shame for the 2002's, though, vast majority only had this shot at playing at the U18's, and some won't ever again get to represent their respective country.

 

[Vegan Knight]

There's only one champion, so why are the other 15 playoff teams not awarded lottery balls? You're waging a red herring argument. The logic is that if a team is good enough to get into the playoffs, it doesn't require the benefit of the draft lottery. This is completely irrespective of who wins the Cup or if anyone wins the cup, and there is enough of a season record to roughly determine who the bottom 15 teams are.

No we don't. There's no way to know which teams would make or miss the playoffs. You can never say who would or wouldn't make it and the rules are set up for an 82 game season, they are inadequate when you start with those and get to a point where some have played 68 and some have played 71 and say...eh good enough.

And you assume the only thing they miss out on would be a Cup. It isn't but they do miss that opportunity.

They only give the worst team 18 percent odds, when they are CERTAIN of what the best and worst teams are. With so many unknowns here, you have to lower that way, way, way down.

 

[IceNeophyte]

No we don't. There's no way to know which teams would make or miss the playoffs. You can never say who would or wouldn't make it and the rules are set up for an 82 game season, they are inadequate when you start with those and get to a point where some have played 68 and some have played 71 and say...eh good enough.

And you assume the only thing they miss out on would be a Cup. It isn't but they do miss that opportunity.

They only give the worst team 18 percent odds, when they are CERTAIN of what the best and worst teams are. With so many unknowns here, you have to lower that way, way, way down.

I don't know how to get it through to you. The draft lottery is not an award. It is intended to help strengthen weaker teams. So some bubble teams would end up in the lottery when they shouldn't have been, or vice versa, because we can't say how it would have ended up. Giving TBL, BOS, WAS, VGK, etc. lottery balls isn't a solution for strengthening weaker teams. It's not like we have no idea where the vast majority of teams would have ended up in playoff qualification: Over 80% of the season has been played.

 

[Vegan Knight]

I don't know how to get it through to you. The draft lottery is not an award. It is intended to help strengthen weaker teams. So some bubble teams would end up in the lottery when they shouldn't have been, or vice versa, because we can't say how it would have ended up. Giving TBL, BOS, WAS, VGK, etc. lottery balls isn't a solution for strengthening weaker teams. It's not like we have no idea where the vast majority of teams would have ended up in playoff qualification: Over 80% of the season has been played.

That is not at all what the lottery is for. There would be no lottery if your argument was true. They would give the worst teams the top pick every year. Buffalo would have McDavid. They routinely change it to give the worst teams less odds as is.

I don't know understand how you think this idea of...eh probably these teams are worse than these ones...right everybody?....? They played 68 games and they played 71 but sure. That fits. That won't fly with well over half the teams at all.

Your argument doesn't even work for itself. We don't know who the worst teams are so we don't know who they would be helping, we don't know the real standings and we can't use the old format that was set for different parameters, ones where everyone plays a full schedule.

 

[IceNeophyte]

That is not at all what the lottery is for. There would be no lottery if your argument was true. They would give the worst teams the top pick every year. Buffalo would have McDavid. They routinely change it to give the worst teams less odds as is.

I don't know understand how you think this idea of...eh probably these teams are worse than these ones...right everybody?....? They played 68 games and they played 71 but sure. That fits. That won't fly with well over half the teams at all.

Your argument doesn't even work for itself. We don't know who the worst teams are so we don't know who they would be helping, we don't know the real standings and we can't use the old format that was set for different parameters, ones where everyone plays a full schedule.

The only and singular reason draft order exists is to mete out young talent in a way that promotes parity in the league. There is absolutely no other reason. The only reason it is done by lottery and not by straight record is to discourage tanking to achieve a top draft pick.

68 vs 71 is easy. They'll go by points per game. There is ENOUGH information to determine the teams most in need of talent. It doesn't have to be perfect information. Perfect information is obviously unavailable if they don't close out the regular season, but what they have is enough. And the singular purpose of draft order shouldn't and won't be subverted so that the best teams in the league can have their participation award in lieu of playoffs.

 

[Vegan Knight]

The only and singular reason draft order exists is to mete out young talent in a way that promotes parity in the league. There is absolutely no other reason. The only reason it is done by lottery and not by straight record is to discourage tanking to achieve a top draft pick.

68 vs 71 is easy. They'll go by points per game. There is ENOUGH information to determine the teams most in need of talent. It doesn't have to be perfect information. Perfect information is obviously unavailable if they don't close out the regular season, but what they have is enough. And the singular purpose of draft order shouldn't and won't be subverted so that the best teams in the league can have their participation award in lieu of playoffs.

That is not the point of the draft lottery or else it would not exist. That is the exact opposite of the point of the draft lottery.

There isn't enough information because a season wasn't played. They have to adjust to reflect this.

The Kings could finish anywhere from 30th to 15th. Do we think that would be close to 30 rather than 15? Sure. But where, exactly? And what about the other 15 teams in that range who have ten different placement possibilities each? Where do we put the Kings and all those other teams in relation to one another? All with good arguments for why they should be adjusted from what their position is at this completely arbitrary point in the season.

Regulation wins and loser points factor. What part of the schedule has been played, what was left. Some teams got more opportunity to lose games and drop their win percentage over others. Some teams got to play more road games.

No one can determine what would happen. Rules aren't set up for partial results.

There will be a massive adjustment to the draft odds if there are no playoffs. I agree it won't be even, but there won't be a huge gap between them either and every team (or their picks) would have odds.

 

[IceNeophyte]

That is not the point of the draft lottery or else it would not exist. That is the exact opposite of the point of the draft lottery.

There isn't enough information because a season wasn't played. They have to adjust to reflect this.

The Kings could finish anywhere from 30th to 15th. Do we think that would be close to 30 rather than 15? Sure. But where, exactly? And what about the other 15 teams in that range who have ten different placement possibilities each? Where do we put the Kings and all those other teams in relation to one another? All with good arguments for why they should be adjusted from what their position is at this completely arbitrary point in the season.

Regulation wins and loser points factor. What part of the schedule has been played, what was left. Some teams got more opportunity to lose games and drop their win percentage over others. Some teams got to play more road games.

No one can determine what would happen. Rules aren't set up for partial results.

There will be a massive adjustment to the draft odds if there are no playoffs. I agree it won't be even, but there won't be a huge gap between them either and every team (or their picks) would have odds.

Wait a minute. Exactly the opposite of the point of the draft lottery.....so you are saying that the point of the draft lottery is to strengthen the strongest teams?

I'll say one thing, and consider the discussion closed from my end: If we, or the fans of any other good team, think there is a loophole here that gives us a chance at a top 10 draft pick, we are going to be very, very disappointed.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Wait a minute. Exactly the opposite of the point of the draft lottery.....so you are saying that the point of the draft lottery is to strengthen the strongest teams?

I'll say one thing, and consider the discussion closed from my end: If we, or the fans of any other good team, think there is a loophole here that gives us a chance at a top 10 draft pick, we are going to be very, very disappointed.

The point of lottery takes away from standings based picks and gives higher ranked teams odds of getting the best picks. The lottery is absolutely designed to take away from the worst teams getting the best picks.

I'm not saying we should get top ten pick. We should have draft odds though. It is the only remotely fair thing you can do in an sporting sense. You can't determine what the standings would be so adjustment will be needed to offset that.

 

[willy702]

I just don't see any way they don't have at least some form of playoffs. China is back to nearly full economic operation after six weeks of mostly lockdown conditions nationwide. Yes there is risk of transmission but there always will be, fact is within a few years we will all be exposed to the virus. Question is will we get a vaccine for it before the first time we contract it and will doctors have found better ways to treat those with the worst symptoms by then. But I see no way we spend years awaiting some more benign conditions, this next few weeks has to be about getting more tests and educating the public about this new fact of life we will have to deal with. Once past that things will be running again with of course new precautions taken.

Im thinking MLS strategy of a 30 day pause is about right. If so, compressing a few things and the NHL can award a Cup by around the 4th of July.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Is there going to be a 2021/2022 World Cup of Hockey to grab some more cash to make up for this lost revenue?