Percentage of goals top scorers have been in on

[Jame]

It's a stat that you posted out of context.

Just like any singular stat. Ever.

Lol what?

 

[Moskau]

You completely dismissed my post and took a shot at Cody Hodgson instead when no one has said a word about Hodgson. Instead of muttering Rosebud on your deathbed like Charles Kane you're going to be saying "Hodgson".

Just a few weeks ago you said Drew Stafford will be lucky to receive a contract for more than $1 Million this July. Confirm/Deny.

 

[Montag DP]

Stokes, can you explain how this stat gives any more information than we would have already known by comparing Ennis' point totals with the other forwards on the team? It seems like the stat simply says that Ennis has the most points on a bad offensive team, which is not exactly a revelation.

 

[stokes84]

You completely dismissed my post and took a shot at Cody Hodgson instead when no one has said a word about Hodgson. Instead of muttering Rosebud on your deathbed like Charles Kane you're going to be saying "Hodgson".

Just a few weeks ago you said Drew Stafford will be lucky to receive a contract for more than $1 Million this July. Confirm/Deny.

Yeah, I said that. We're talking about a UFA who is about to turn 30 who has averaged about 35 point/82 games over the last three seasons, who doesn't play particularly good defense, who isn't particularly tough, who hasn't been given a leadership role on this team. Let me tell you, that guy is going to be a hot commodity.

 

[stokes84]

Stokes, can you explain how this stat gives any more information than we would have already known by comparing Ennis' point totals with the other forwards on the team? It seems like the stat simply says that Ennis has the most points on a bad offensive team, which is not exactly a revelation.

http://media.wgr550.com/a/101407172/1-29-sabres-gm-tim-murray.htm?pageid=28473

This is Tim Murray today. Listen towards the end when he is giving an explanation for Hodgson's season. He talks about how most players underperform on bad teams, and the fact that Ennis is not underperforming and doesn't get caught in that line of excuse making is what is shown here.

 

[Montag DP]

http://media.wgr550.com/a/101407172/1-29-sabres-gm-tim-murray.htm?pageid=28473

This is Tim Murray today. Listen towards the end when he is giving an explanation for Hodgson's season. He talks about how most players underperform on bad teams, and the fact that Ennis is not underperforming and doesn't get caught in that line of excuse making is what is shown here.

But your stat doesn't show whether he's underperforming or not. It just shows he's scoring more points than anyone else on the team. As in my example before, if he had 10 points and the team had scored 20 goals all season, he'd be having a terrible season but be at the top of your list.

 

[Moskau]

Yeah, I said that. We're talking about a UFA who is about to turn 30 who has averaged about 35 point/82 games over the last three seasons, who doesn't play particularly good defense, who isn't particularly tough, who hasn't been given a leadership role on this team. Let me tell you, that guy is going to be a hot commodity.

But drew Stafford is almost a league leader in a state you didn't care about until 3 hours ago. That has to be worth something, right?

 

[sabrebuild]

Ennis is having an admirable season, while Stafford is going to get 1 yr 1 million... Because there is no consistency in cloud cuckoo land

Hey you shut up, the original assertion was that Stafford would be lucky to get that 1 year 1 million dollar deal, he probably wouldn't even be in the league...

 

[sabrebuild]

I think I've proven my point. There was nothing to agree with. I don't think I even made an argument here. I presented a stat. People got angry.

I feel like this forum has become an environmental debate and your using the old "well it was snowing in April so global warming must not be real" move.

Nothing was proven good or bad by the information provided. Unless what you were trying to prove was that this forum will crap on you if you use an empty stat without context to prove anything. It could have been about Girgensons instead of Ennis and you would have gotten the exact same reaction.

 

[stokes84]

But drew Stafford is almost a league leader in a state you didn't care about until 3 hours ago. That has to be worth something, right?

What stat is he almost a league leader in?

 

[Samsonite23]

Yeah, I said that. We're talking about a UFA who is about to turn 30 who has averaged about 35 point/82 games over the last three seasons, who doesn't play particularly good defense, who isn't particularly tough, who hasn't been given a leadership role on this team. Let me tell you, that guy is going to be a hot commodity.

It's actually 38 pts/82 games. And if you go to the season before that it goes up to 43.

See I can throw numbers around without context too. Except mine are correct.

At least your eye for defensive awareness is trustworthy...oh wait.

 

[stokes84]

But your stat doesn't show whether he's underperforming or not. It just shows he's scoring more points than anyone else on the team. As in my example before, if he had 10 points and the team had scored 20 goals all season, he'd be having a terrible season but be at the top of your list.[/QUOTE]

in comparison to everyone else on his team, I'd say he was having an outstanding year.

 

[brian_griffin]

The point is that the kid has done a pretty admirable job with very little supporting talent. It's not to say he's some kind of star or anything, just that he's having a pretty good year given the circumstances.

It's pretty amusing watching the usual haters come out and attempt to rip him down. Maybe if their guy was having a better year than Leino did last year, they wouldn't be so bitter.

stokes, there's nuance in what I'm going to post.

1) No one is hating Ennis and ripping him down.
2) Almost no one is doing either of the same to you personally (i.e., debate post not poster).
3) What they are ripping on is the validity of that stat to really illustrate anything significant, and the inferences and/or conclusions you are drawing from the metric / stat.
There's a difference between those three things, and it's real, and, IMO, it's important for the "health" and civility of our board for that nuance / distinction to be understood.

 

[sabrebuild]

stokes, there's nuance in what I'm going to post.

1) No one is hating Ennis and ripping him down.
2) Almost no one is doing either of the same to you personally (i.e., debate post not poster).
3) What they are ripping on is the validity of that stat to really illustrate anything significant, and the inferences and/or conclusions you are drawing from the metric / stat.
There's a difference between those three things, and it's real, and, IMO, it's important for the "health" and civility of our board for that nuance / distinction to be understood.

Ding ding ding

 

[Jame]

http://media.wgr550.com/a/101407172/1-29-sabres-gm-tim-murray.htm?pageid=28473

This is Tim Murray today. Listen towards the end when he is giving an explanation for Hodgson's season. He talks about how most players underperform on bad teams, and the fact that Ennis is not underperforming and doesn't get caught in that line of excuse making is what is shown here.

So that was the inspiration for this nonsense correlation. Makes sense

 

[Jame]

But your stat doesn't show whether he's underperforming or not. It just shows he's scoring more points than anyone else on the team. As in my example before, if he had 10 points and the team had scored 20 goals all season, he'd be having a terrible season but be at the top of your list.

in comparison to everyone else on his team, I'd say he was having an outstanding year.

Exactly

 

[stokes84]

stokes, there's nuance in what I'm going to post.

1) No one is hating Ennis and ripping him down.
2) Almost no one is doing either of the same to you personally (i.e., debate post not poster).
3) What they are ripping on is the validity of that stat to really illustrate anything significant, and the inferences and/or conclusions you are drawing from the metric / stat.
There's a difference between those three things, and it's real, and, IMO, it's important for the "health" and civility of our board for that nuance / distinction to be understood.

and this is where it gets weird. Somehow, saying that a player being in on a really high percentage of his team goals shows that he is playing pretty well, is wrong? Only here. Only here.

 

[stokes84]

So that was the inspiration for this nonsense correlation. Makes sense

Nope. I posted my thread this morning. Tim talked about this in the afternoon.

 

[stokes84]

Exactly

Ok, so I'm not sure where the disconnect is.

 

[Samsonite23]

and this is where it gets weird. Somehow, saying that a player being in on a really high percentage of his team goals shows that he is playing pretty well, is wrong? Only here. Only here.

It's been explained to you multiple times. Apparently you will never understand why numbers need context. The stat you used basically shows that he is the leading scorer on the buffalo sabres.

 

[stokes84]

It's been explained to you multiple times. Apparently you will never understand why numbers need context. The stat you used basically shows that he is the leading scorer on the buffalo sabres.

And... What's your point?

You forgot to mention, with very little offensive support.

 

[Jame]

Ok, so I'm not sure where the disconnect is.

You illustrated how silly your correlation is.

 

[Samsonite23]

And... What's your point?

You forgot to mention, with very little offensive support.

That it's a pointless stat that is in your OP, which you used to try to talk up your favorite player. All you really needed to say was, "hey Ennis has the most points on the team guys. He's really good."

 

[Samsonite23]

And... What's your point?

You forgot to mention, with very little offensive support.

He can not possibly have any better support this year on the sabres than he has received. He's on the 1st friggin line with top pp time.

 

[stokes84]

That it's a pointless stat that is in your OP, which you used to try to talk up your favorite player. All you really needed to say was, "hey Ennis has the most points on the team guys. He's really good."

Feel free to read the OP again, if you'd like.