Percentage of goals top scorers have been in on

[La Cosa Nostra]

It's safe to say Tyler Ennis has a spot on this team when it's ready to compete for a cup. Hodgson along with every other forward sans Girgensons and Moulson do not. (Deslauriers maybe too but he's a mere 12th forward on an actual good team).

You aren't going to get anyone giving props to Ennis and only will get people nitpicking stokes. Don't you remember just a mere year ago how overwhelmingly this board was on the Hodgson train in the Cody vs Tyler debate?

 

[ZeroPT*]

This is another reason why you're not taken seriously. You make some half assed analysis and then get all defensive when people call you out on it.

Ennis is the leading scorer, on a crappy team. The worst offensively. That's nice, because he's producing without an outstanding supporting cast but to rank him the way you did is just using stats out of context just to prove some narrative.

 

[Sabre the Win]

How does this rate to say a team like the Islanders who have all 3 lines scoring. Wouldn't crappier teams who only have say one line scoring fair better on this list?

 

[gallagt01]

1) Ennis has done a nice job with little support offensively this year.

2) This stat really doesn't prove that.

3) This thread is stupid and...

It's kind of funny that Drew Stafford is like 3 points away from being higher than Ennis on this list... the same Drew Stafford who wont even be offered a $1 Million contract this off season. How can you say Ennis is doing an admirable job when he's barely out producing the soon to be jobless Drew Stafford?

4) ...this post shows why.

 

[stokes84]

This is another reason why you're not taken seriously. You make some half assed analysis and then get all defensive when people call you out on it.

Ennis is the leading scorer, on a crappy team. The worst offensively. That's nice, because he's producing without an outstanding supporting cast but to rank him the way you did is just using stats out of context just to prove some narrative.

I don't have a problem with people taking issue with the stat. I said right in the OP that it wasn't scientific. I do take issue when you do a terrible job at attacking it though. Like penalizing Ennis because of PP points, but failing to recognize that Stafford gets a ton of PP time. That kind of junk is ridiculous.

 

[stokes84]

How does this rate to say a team like the Islanders who have all 3 lines scoring. Wouldn't crappier teams who only have say one line scoring fair better on this list?

Yes, for sure.

 

[Samsonite23]

I don't have a problem with people taking issue with the stat. I said right in the OP that it wasn't scientific. I do take issue when you do a terrible job at attacking it though. Like penalizing Ennis because of PP points, but failing to recognize that Stafford gets a ton of PP time. That kind of junk is ridiculous.

Like you failed to recognize Stafford has played with consistently worse linemates most of the year.

 

[stokes84]

Like you failed to recognize Stafford has played with consistently worse linemates most of the year.

Well, yeah, he's further down the depth chart. Of course he's going to have worse teammates.

 

[Samsonite23]

Well, yeah, he's further down the depth chart. Of course he's going to have worse teammates.

That affects how easy it is to accumulate points...

So your 7 more pts in 5 more games argument makes no sense as to why he's been better.

And that's without even bringing up that Ennis gets a lot more offensive zone starts.

 

[enthusiast]

7 more points in 5 more games on this team is pretty huge lol

 

[thefifagod]

That's right. PP points don't matter on this forum. Almost forgot. Even though Stafford has been on the 1st PP unit for much of the year. Don't worry about that though. Not important.

Of course they matter but there's a lot of variance in power play points due to the volatility of power play shooting percentages. Ennis has ranged anywhere from 2.03 PPP/60 to 5.29 (he also had 6.81 over a SSS when he first was called up). He's been better than Stafford every year on the PP take away Stafford's amazing 2010/11 campaign, there's no denying that.

The point is that you said in post 27 that "the kid has done a pretty admirable job with very little supporting talent." If you are going to say that, then Stafford has gone beyond that considering his linemates for the majority of his TOI. You can't say that he's done an admirable job based on where he ends up in that list; drawing conclusions based on the list is a mistake. The biggest takeaway from Ennis' placement is that considering he's not even on pace for 50 points, we have absolutely zero scoring depth. This is obvious considering we have the least amount of goals in the league by a decent margin.

 

[Jame]

The point is that the kid has done a pretty admirable job with very little supporting talent. It's not to say he's some kind of star or anything, just that he's having a pretty good year given the circumstances.

It's pretty amusing watching the usual haters come out and attempt to rip him down. Maybe if their guy was having a better year than Leino did last year, they wouldn't be so bitter.

The point is that the correlation you've drawn does not show anything other than the leading scorer on a terrible team.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I don't have a problem with people taking issue with the stat. I said right in the OP that it wasn't scientific. I do take issue when you do a terrible job at attacking it though. Like penalizing Ennis because of PP points, but failing to recognize that Stafford gets a ton of PP time. That kind of junk is ridiculous.

Okay. That doesn't change the fact that your assesment and your statistical analysis makes absolutely no sense.

I don't have a horse in this race. I'm just pointing out that the OP makes no sense. And it's not just "the usual haters" pointing it out.

 

[Jame]

Stokes,

Do you ever wonder why no one agrees with you when you draw these "stokesian" conclusions?

The 22 minute correlation thing? No one agreed

This percentage of team points correlation. No one agreed.

If the only persona agreeing with you is you know who... You should probably take a second pass at your logic.

 

[stokes84]

Okay. That doesn't change the fact that your assesment and your statistical analysis makes absolutely no sense.

I don't have a horse in this race. I'm just pointing out that the OP makes no sense. And it's not just "the usual haters" pointing it out.

It's a stat. It puts the kid in a good light. People don't like when Ennis is put in a good light. It makes perfect sense.

 

[stokes84]

Stokes,

Do you ever wonder why no one agrees with you when you draw these "stokesian" conclusions?

The 22 minute correlation thing? No one agreed

This percentage of team points correlation. No one agreed.

If the only persona agreeing with you is you know who... You should probably take a second pass at your logic.

I think I've proven my point. There was nothing to agree with. I don't think I even made an argument here. I presented a stat. People got angry.

 

[Zip15]

That's right. PP points don't matter on this forum. Almost forgot. Even though Stafford has been on the 1st PP unit for much of the year. Don't worry about that though. Not important.

Nobody is saying they don't count. But most find ESpts/60 to be a better measure of who can produce at the phase that constitutes the majority of the game. I did the math and if you gave Stafford the identical ice times that Ennis has on the PP and at ES, they have exactly the same amount of points. In other words, when considering both phases, they're putting up exactly the same amount of points (and this is ignoring things like linemates, zone starts, QoC and QoT).

They've essentially put up the same offensive performance, and Ennis has done it with far better ES teammates.

 

[Jame]

I don't think I even made an argument here. I presented a stat. People got angry.

Of course you made an argument. You're argument is "look at this terribly out of context and largely irrelevant stat, Ennis is having an admirable season"

You drew a correlation between % of team scoring, and the value/quality of Ennis season.

 

[Jame]

Nobody is saying they don't count. But most find ESpts/60 to be a better measure of who can produce at the phase that constitutes the majority of the game. I did the math and if you gave Stafford the identical ice times that Ennis has on the PP and at ES, they have exactly the same amount of points. In other words, when considering both phases, they're putting up exactly the same amount of points (and this is ignoring things like linemates, zone starts, QoC and QoT).

They've essentially put up the same offensive performance, and Ennis has done it with far better ES teammates.

Ennis is having an admirable season, while Stafford is going to get 1 yr 1 million... Because there is no consistency in cloud cuckoo land

 

[stokes84]

Of course you made an argument. You're argument is "look at this terribly out of context and largely irrelevant stat, Ennis is having an admirable season"

You drew a correlation between % of team scoring, and the value/quality of Ennis season.

How could you not?

 

[B U F F A L O]

I think I've proven my point. There was nothing to agree with. I don't think I even made an argument here. I presented a stat. People got angry.

Meh. Youve been arguing for the sake of arguing to try and back it up though. Its like you said it means nothing in the OP but when people came out and said something against Ennis, you felt the need to defend it.

I do appreciate that you have such a different mindset than most on here. I can always count on you to spark a debate and get to see good opinions come from it. Would be a boring place if we all agreed.

 

[ZeroPT*]

It's a stat. It puts the kid in a good light. People don't like when Ennis is put in a good light. It makes perfect sense.

It's a stat that you posted out of context

I think I've proven my point. There was nothing to agree with. I don't think I even made an argument here. I presented a stat. People got angry.

Oh my.

 

[Jame]

How could you not?

My brain doesn't have a built in logical fallacy structure

 

[stokes84]

It's a stat that you posted out of context


Oh my.

Just like any singular stat. Ever.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

It's kind of funny that Drew Stafford is like 3 points away from being higher than Ennis on this list... the same Drew Stafford who wont even be offered a $1 Million contract this off season. How can you say Ennis is doing an admirable job when he's barely out producing the soon to be jobless Drew Stafford?

Highlight of the thread. Nolan has gotten Stafford to produce almost as much as our best player. His system must be really helping Stafford out. Stafford is far too much trash to be doing it on his own. Stokes has proven to everyone that Nolan and Ennis are the 2 most valuable things in Buffalo.