Post-Game Talk: |Pens vs Wings| Win | Good ole fashioned beating

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He had a nice setup on the Crosby goal...though I doubt many goalies are going to commit 100% to stopping Evan Rodrigues when he and Sid come in on a 2 on 1

In general, Detroit's goalies were absolutely dire in this game. Maybe it goes without saying considering they gave up 11, but that might be the worst goaltending performance iIve ever seen in a regular season game. Felt like every remotely dangerous chance the Pens had went in, and both Detroit goalies had atrocious positioning.

Yeah it has to be said... that was some of the worst goaltending I've ever seen.

I actually think Detroit has some interesting young pieces and have a future. But man did they look hapless.

 

[jmelm]

The sequence leading up to Malkin's HT goal where he nearly scored off of a Rust feed was pretty sweet.

He's much more engaged in front of the net than I expected him to be. He also has better size/wingspan than I was aware of.

I think the team moving away from a Rakell/Malkin/Rust L2 would be a pretty dim bulb move but we'll see. There is absolutely something there.

I totally agree about the wing span -- it's probably the first thing I noticed in his first couple of games that stood out to me. He's listed at 6'1 but he's got the wing span of a 6'2 player. On a team with a lot of sub 6'0 players, it really stands out.

Heinen, conversely, looks an inch shorter than the 6'1 he's listed at.

The main problem with keeping the Rakell/Maling/Rust line are the following unanswered questions:

- Can Zucker effectively shift over to RW with 59 & 87?

- If the answer to that question is no, can E-Rod really step up in playoff time to up against other teams best Dmen and top lines (or top shut down lines) and be effective on first line RW?

If the answer to both of those are 'no', the only other option is going Guentzel/Crosby/Rakell on L1, and then Zucker/Malkin/Rust on L2. I definitely don't mind that either, I'm just not convinced E-Rod or Heinen can be legit top 6 players come playoff time.

 

[SEALBound]

That was a fun game to watch but I'm clearly getting soft as after 6-0, I started to feel bad for the Wings. For those of us that grew up in the Lemieux/Jagr era, we can empathize with the Wings fans yesterday. Not that fun.

I put so little stock in this game, it's almost not worth replying to this thread. I put much more stock in the loss against the Rags and the OT loss against the Sabres than this. I honestly think these guys just need a couple of days of rest and a practice or two to begin to gel.

What I hope this game does for these guys is help jumpstart that swag or confidence, especially for Rakell, Kapanen, Heinen, and ERod. They each had a good game but we really need them to start heating up. Did you see Kapanen's celebration on that beauty? That is the celebration of not only a goal but a release of stress. That is a guy who wanted and needed THAT goal in a big bad way. Yeah, it's nice to get the monkey off your back by whatever means necessary but that goal a couple of games ago was a flukey chance. The goal he scored was a pure outburst of speed and skill. Anyone who played knows that internally, there is a MASSIVE difference between those two. Then I noticed him all game playing with a little more swag in his step. I've been saying now for a couple of weeks that the best thing possible for this team is to get Kapanen going and to get ERod back to where he was. That is the depth scoring that will win playoff series.

Rakell having a big game in the top 6, Heinen scoring, ERod looking better and better...all good things. The win here means nothing but if it gives all of those guys a boost, that is the true victory.

Looking ahead, Zucker could be a major x-factor for us. Looking at the lineup, I think we are well suited to run:

Jake-Sid-Zucker
Rakell-Malkin-Rust

and that is a lethal Top 6. That rivals Tampa and Carolina IMHO.

Then run:

Heinen-Carter-Kapanen
ERod-Bleuger-McGinn/Boyle

That third line, if Heinen and Kapanen heat up is as good as any third line in the league. Add a scoring touch to the 4th line in ERod...and we could really be looking at something here.

 

[jmelm]

He had a nice setup on the Crosby goal...though I doubt many goalies are going to commit 100% to stopping Evan Rodrigues when he and Sid come in on a 2 on 1

In general, Detroit's goalies were absolutely dire in this game. Maybe it goes without saying considering they gave up 11, but that might be the worst goaltending performance iIve ever seen in a regular season game. Felt like every remotely dangerous chance the Pens had went in, and both Detroit goalies had atrocious positioning.

I'm not worried about goalies respecting E-Rod's shot, because he does have a great shot.

I'm worried about him going up in the offensive zone in transition or grinding against guys like Trouba, Pesce, Slavin, Kreider, Ovechkin/Wilson and other top line heavy Dmen & forwards in a 7 game series.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I totally agree about the wing span -- it's probably the first thing I noticed in his first couple of games that stood out to me. He's listed at 6'1 but he's got the wing span of a 6'2 player. On a team with a lot of sub 6'0 players, it really stands out.

Heinen, conversely, looks an inch shorter than the 6'1 he's listed at.

The main problem with keeping the Rakell/Maling/Rust line are the following unanswered questions:

- Can Zucker effectively shift over to RW with 59 & 87?

- If the answer to that question is no, can E-Rod really step up in playoff time to up against other teams best Dmen and top lines (or top shut down lines) and be effective on first line RW?

If the answer to both of those are 'no', the only other option is going Guentzel/Crosby/Rakell on L1, and then Zucker/Malkin/Rust on L2. I definitely don't mind that either, I'm just not convinced E-Rod or Heinen can be legit top 6 players come playoff time.

He's got those orangutan arms, man. Dude has some pretty slick puck skills, honestly. In some ways his approach reminds me a bit of Malkin's. And again... that wrister was dirty. The flex on that shot would make Phil blush.

As for the rest... totally agree. It's the only concern I have. I think you ride ERod as long as you can to give Zucker time to get back into the groove. If that surgery and recovery can lay a legend like Sid low for the first ten-ish games back you have to figure Zucker is going to struggle. But I have no issue at all giving him that look up top on RW if ERod fizzles out (I suspect as much) and Zucker looks fit enough to do it.

I'd rather not see Zucker next to Malkin, again. I really don't think there is anything there and in fact seems to diminish both players. But I'd live with it so long as Rust stays on the other wing. I think that's the key, right now. If ERod and Zucker both can't make it happen on L1 go with Rakell on L1RW and default to that Z/M/R line even if I have doubts.

 

[Peat]

Huh. I think ERod's shot is only average at best, and his best skill by far is offensive zone entries.

 

[66-30-33]

Just saw this, guess it was after the game.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Man I can't help but really like Boyle after kinda bagging on the team for that signing to start the season.

Good human. Can still game.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

He's got those orangutan arms, man. Dude has some pretty slick puck skills, honestly. In some ways his approach reminds me a bit of Malkin's. And again... that wrister was dirty. The flex on that shot would make Phil blush.

As for the rest... totally agree. It's the only concern I have. I think you ride ERod as long as you can to give Zucker time to get back into the groove. If that surgery and recovery can lay a legend like Sid low for the first ten-ish games back you have to figure Zucker is going to struggle. But I have no issue at all giving him that look up top on RW if ERod fizzles out (I suspect as much) and Zucker looks fit enough to do it.

I'd rather not see Zucker next to Malkin, again. I really don't think there is anything there and in fact seems to diminish both players. But I'd live with it so long as Rust stays on the other wing. I think that's the key, right now. If ERod and Zucker both can't make it happen on L1 go with Rakell on L1RW and default to that Z/M/R line even if I have doubts.

I don't mind this either. People need to stop shoe-horning Malkin and Zucker onto the same line. It doesn't work. We've had plenty of time to see it with Geno going and not going, it isn't a fit. Let's not be dumb and try to force lines that don't work a fourth year in a row.

Zucker on L1 has never really been tried for more than a few games from what I remember. Would much rather experiment with ERod, Zucker, even Kapanen there instead of moving Rust back to L1. I've seen GCR get caved enough defensively that I don't want to see them together in the playoffs for a third or fourth time, not when we have other line options and with L2 being so important to doing well. I try not to get into the Sid v Geno stuff but Rakell being discussed as Sid's wing by some people here, really? Come on.

 

[66-30-33]

Man I can't help but really like Boyle after kinda bagging on the team for that signing to start the season.

Good human. Can still game.

Yeah I like the giant. Hopefully we can re-sign him to a 1 year deal.

 

[jmelm]

He's got those orangutan arms, man. Dude has some pretty slick puck skills, honestly. In some ways his approach reminds me a bit of Malkin's. And again... that wrister was dirty. The flex on that shot would make Phil blush.

As for the rest... totally agree. It's the only concern I have. I think you ride ERod as long as you can to give Zucker time to get back into the groove. If that surgery and recovery can lay a legend like Sid low for the first ten-ish games back you have to figure Zucker is going to struggle. But I have no issue at all giving him that look up top on RW if ERod fizzles out (I suspect as much) and Zucker looks fit enough to do it.

I'd rather not see Zucker next to Malkin, again. I really don't think there is anything there and in fact seems to diminish both players. But I'd live with it so long as Rust stays on the other wing. I think that's the key, right now. If ERod and Zucker both can't make it happen on L1 go with Rakell on L1RW and default to that Z/M/R line even if I have doubts.

I kind of agree with not wanting to see Zucker with Malkin, again, but....at the same time I wonder....could it be that it was the RW those 2 were paired with that didn't make them that effective together? If Malkin was playing with a better linemate than Kapanen (such as Rust or Rakell), I wonder if Zucker may end up being a decent fit on that line. It's certainly worth keeping that possiblity in mind that it wasn't necessarily Zucker who was the weak link that didn't make them click.

Good point about the surgery & recovery. Not sure exactly when he's due back, but it would be nice if he could come back by April 7th or 9th so he can get a good 10 games in.

I'd also like to see us rest Carter and Boyle for a couple of games towards the end of the season. So especially with our last 4 games being nicely spread out and against weaker competion (with the exception of EDM), it would be a good opportunity to rotate some guys in and out of the line up.

Not sure what McGinn's recovery will be either, but I hope he can get at least 3-4 games in at the end of the season so he's up to speed for the playoffs.

 

[jmelm]

I don't mind this either. People need to stop shoe-horning Malkin and Zucker onto the same line. It doesn't work. We've had plenty of time to see it with Geno going and not going, it isn't a fit. Let's not be dumb and try to force lines that don't work a fourth year in a row.

Zucker on L1 has never really been tried for more than a few games from what I remember. Would much rather experiment with ERod, Zucker, even Kapanen there instead of moving Rust back to L1. I've seen GCR get caved enough defensively that I don't want to see them together in the playoffs for a third or fourth time, not when we have other line options and with L2 being so important to doing well. I try not to get into the Sid v Geno stuff but Rakell being discussed as Sid's wing by some people here, really? Come on.

Zucker experiment is worthwhile, and the ERod experiment is currently ongoing. But I cannot see Kapanen being a fit with Jake & Sid at all. I just don't think he works well with them, and as good as he's playing now, I think KK needs to be further down the lineup and in a lower pressure situation. I don't think KK has the level of hockey sense, vision and creativity to play with Sid & Jake.

I'd sooner have Rakell on L1 RW if the Zucker experiment doesn't work. And I think having a productive KK playing on a line with Carter + someone will give us both a more productive Kapanen, and also balance out our lineup more offensively.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I kind of agree with not wanting to see Zucker with Malkin, again, but....at the same time I wonder....could it be that it was the RW those 2 were paired with that didn't make them that effective together? If Malkin was playing with a better linemate than Kapanen (such as Rust or Rakell), I wonder if Zucker may end up being a decent fit on that line. It's certainly worth keeping that possiblity in mind that it wasn't necessarily Zucker who was the weak link that didn't make them click.

Good point about the surgery & recovery. Not sure exactly when he's due back, but it would be nice if he could come back by April 7th or 9th so he can get a good 10 games in.

I'd also like to see us rest Carter and Boyle for a couple of games towards the end of the season. So especially with our last 4 games being nicely spread out and against weaker competion (with the exception of EDM), it would be a good opportunity to rotate some guys in and out of the line up.

Not sure what McGinn's recovery will be either, but I hope he can get at least 3-4 games in at the end of the season so he's up to speed for the playoffs.

Not to my eye. Zucker didn't know where to go on the ice to support the play on that line, and never seemed to figure out what he needed to do to be effective. 71 is unconventional but can easily elevate linemates who aren't as talented, but they gotta bring their own game to the table and not defer every time. Zucker never figured that out beyond a few moments.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't mind this either. People need to stop shoe-horning Malkin and Zucker onto the same line. It doesn't work. We've had plenty of time to see it with Geno going and not going, it isn't a fit. Let's not be dumb and try to force lines that don't work a fourth year in a row.

Zucker on L1 has never really been tried for more than a few games from what I remember. Would much rather experiment with ERod, Zucker, even Kapanen there instead of moving Rust back to L1. I've seen GCR get caved enough defensively that I don't want to see them together in the playoffs for a third or fourth time, not when we have other line options and with L2 being so important to doing well. I try not to get into the Sid v Geno stuff but Rakell being discussed as Sid's wing by some people here, really? Come on.

I don't see why we would break up that Rakell - Malkin - Rust line. I don't see why we would break up Carter - Kapanen either right now.

 

[orby]

Boyle obviously isn't the power forward type he once was, but he's been an effective fourth liner for sure. I was as skeptical as anyone that he still had something to contribute to a contending team, and I'm happy to say he's assuaged my doubts. I'd like to see him come back as the 13th forward for another season if he's interested, although depending on how the Pens' offseason goes, Zohorna or O'Connor might end up in that role.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I kind of agree with not wanting to see Zucker with Malkin, again, but....at the same time I wonder....could it be that it was the RW those 2 were paired with that didn't make them that effective together? If Malkin was playing with a better linemate than Kapanen (such as Rust or Rakell), I wonder if Zucker may end up being a decent fit on that line. It's certainly worth keeping that possiblity in mind that it wasn't necessarily Zucker who was the weak link that didn't make them click.

Good point about the surgery & recovery. Not sure exactly when he's due back, but it would be nice if he could come back by April 7th or 9th so he can get a good 10 games in.

I'd also like to see us rest Carter and Boyle for a couple of games towards the end of the season. So especially with our last 4 games being nicely spread out and against weaker competion (with the exception of EDM), it would be a good opportunity to rotate some guys in and out of the line up.

Not sure what McGinn's recovery will be either, but I hope he can get at least 3-4 games in at the end of the season so he's up to speed for the playoffs.

Yep. I think this stretch could actually be well-used to put some finishing touches on the roster and figure some things out if it all breaks right and so long as the coach is willing to continue experimenting. Which... just briefly wanted to give Sullivan his due. As a guy who is never afraid to point out his flaws I want to make sure fair is fair and point out that he is killing it, right now.

I believe Malkin, Rust and Zucker were a thing already in Zucker's first year here, right? That was the line that looked lights out against the Habs but just couldn't put the puck in the net. Even if I'm gonna be hard pressed to want to see Zucker and Malkin tried again... that was a different time with a less fit Malkin. This version looks like he can sure shoot the puck damn near as good as he did in his 20s.

 

[Peat]

I don't see why we would break up that Rakell - Malkin - Rust line. I don't see why we would break up Carter - Kapanen either right now.

Because you've just bogarted every RW on the roster and handed Sid a guy you wouldn't even give 3 x 3m to, that's why.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because you've just bogarted every RW on the roster and handed Sid a guy you wouldn't even give 3 x 3m to, that's why.

Guentzel - Crosby - Zucker
Rakell - Malkin - Rust
Heinen - Carter - Kapanen
Boyle / Z / Rodrigues - Blueger - McGinn

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I don't see why we would break up that Rakell - Malkin - Rust line. I don't see why we would break up Carter - Kapanen either right now.

Me neither. But lot's of people seem to want Rust back on L1.

 

[Peat]

Guentzel - Crosby - Zucker
Rakell - Malkin - Rust
Heinen - Carter - Kapanen
Boyle / Z / Rodrigues - Blueger - McGinn

This is probably going to rebound in my face but the level of confidence people have in fresh from core surgery Zucker on his wrong side as the answer to Sid's wing startles me.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Because you've just bogarted every RW on the roster and handed Sid a guy you wouldn't even give 3 x 3m to, that's why.

Sid had one of the best lines in hockey with Sheary on his wing. Some people always want to give Crosby the best wings on the team regardless of what it means for L2. If L1 is playing well which they are, I don't see why we're breaking up other lines to give Sid the best wingers on the team again. I don't think we need to fix something that isn't broken.

 

[Gurglesons]

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Yep. I think this stretch could actually be well-used to put some finishing touches on the roster and figure some things out if it all breaks right and so long as the coach is willing to continue experimenting. Which... just briefly wanted to give Sullivan his due. As a guy who is never afraid to point out his flaws I want to make sure fair is fair and point out that he is killing it, right now.

I believe Malkin, Rust and Zucker were a thing already in Zucker's first year here, right? That was the line that looked lights out against the Habs but just couldn't put the puck in the net. Even if I'm gonna be hard pressed to want to see Zucker and Malkin tried again... that was a different time with a less fit Malkin. This version looks like he can sure shoot the puck damn near as good as he did in his 20s.

They were never lights out against the Habs. Malkin started very strong individually in the first game and then fell off a cliff. Line was average.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Huh. I think ERod's shot is only average at best, and his best skill by far is offensive zone entries.

E-Rod's shot can be hard, but the issue is that unlike legitimate shooters, he can't consistently place his shot. So it's not accurate and often times either goes right into the goalie's chest logo or goes wide by over a foot.

I agree with the zone entry thing. I think that's literally the only "positive" E-Rod brings to the top line. It gives them a solid zone entry option that doesn't involve Sid or Jake carrying it in. But one that line is in the offensive zone, I think E-Rod's limited skillset starts to drag it down.

 

[66-30-33]

Everyone on the team got PP time except for Ruh LOL!