Post-Game Talk: |Pens vs Kraken | loss | The video coach was our best player

[Gurglesons]

Fair point. He started off here on fire.

A lot of players do. Also maybe wonder how bad his COVID bout was and any long term effects.

Prioritizing system and process over player strengths/weaknesses doesn't usually seem to end well. And honestly if Sullivan doesn't want to accommodate him in any way it both raises questions as to why he's considered such a genius and also why McGinn was signed to term in the first place.

I think Sullivan needs to look in the mirror when he wonder why his top six plays poor defensively and only seems to care about offense.. when.. that’s exactly how he uses them.

He’s doing some things right this year. But his usual favorites that haven’t worked for years are complete burning him.

Petts - Petry should be leading the team in 5v5 usage.

POJ should be paired with Letang and they should be playing 18-20 minutes a night at most.

That gives you Dumo and Rutta as your bottom pairing playing 16-18.

Rakell should be getting all situational usage on the top PP and 5v5.

Sid and Rust need to be fixtures on the PK until it stops failing. If they drop Letang’s 5v5 time significantly they can put him back on the PK, preferably over Dumo.

Malkin and the Powerplay were doing fantastic with him playing the top C role. As soon as we stopped doing that the PP fell apart.

 

[Gurglesons]

Like I don’t get why we did all this change on the backend to just default to Dumo - Letang 25 minutes a night and resign Rakell and have him and Sid clicking non-stop to immediately resort to GCR.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Like I don’t get why we did all this change on the backend to just default to Dumo - Letang 25 minutes a night and resign Rakell and have him and Sid clicking non-stop to immediately resort to GCR.

This team doesn't even really try things in the PRE season, man.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I forget who got real upset that I compared McGinn to Spaling last year, but I thought it was pretty spot on and funny tbh.

It was probably one of the people who think McGinn is a perfectly fine replacement for Tanev.

On that note, I'm really disappointed in McGinn because I was (apparently incorrectly) under the assumption he was a consistent physical guy. Maybe not as many big runs for hits like Tanev does, but a guy who will regularly finish his checks and hit pretty hard when he does. Remember what we saw from Zucker in the playoffs where he was throwing some pretty solid hits and showing a real scrappy side? That's what I thought McGinn was.

Apparently I was watching the wrong McGinn or happened to catch him in one of his rare games where he was pissed off because that's not at all like what he brings.

Like I don’t get why we did all this change on the backend to just default to Dumo - Letang 25 minutes a night and resign Rakell and have him and Sid clicking non-stop to immediately resort to GCR.

You don't "get it"?

Here's the answer:

 

[Gurglesons]

Marino just scored. Yay.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This team doesn't even really try things in the PRE season, man.

Yeah. Always been weird to me. If you wanna play it super safe because the Metro is a sprint from start to finish where not much separates the top from bottom in terms of points, or at least all the playoff spots are hotly contested--sure. Whatever. Do your thing, dork.

But like, the team's so averse to trying *anything* pretty much ever. You mean to tell me a DOC or Poulin couldn't outplay Archibald's f***ing stupid ass?

Hell, if you told me the same coach that gave all those young kids a shot during the back to backs was the same dude coaching recently, I'd have a hard time believing it. But NHL culture eventually wears all the rocks down. It'll happen to my dude St. Louis in Montreal too, sadly.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah. Always been weird to me. If you wanna play it super safe because the Metro is a sprint from start to finish where not much separates the top from bottom in terms of points, or at least all the playoff spots are hotly contested--sure. Whatever. Do your thing, dork.

But like, the team's so averse to trying *anything* pretty much ever. You mean to tell me a DOC or Poulin couldn't outplay Archibald's f***ing stupid ass?

Hell, if you told me the same coach that gave all those young kids a shot during the back to backs was the same dude coaching recently, I'd have a hard time believing it. But NHL culture eventually wears all the rocks down. It'll happen to my dude St. Louis in Montreal too, sadly.

Tenured, comfortable NHL coaching is a bad thing like 90% of the time. But I'll never ceased to get lectured on how Sullivan is special, somehow.

This team's big wrinkle this year was evidently flipping centers on the powerplay for like five games OOoooOOooOOh! Watch out!

 

[Andy99]

Fair point. He started off here on fire.

A lot of players do. Also maybe wonder how bad his COVID bout was and any long term effects.

Prioritizing system and process over player strengths/weaknesses doesn't usually seem to end well. And honestly if Sullivan doesn't want to accommodate him in any way it both raises questions as to why he's considered such a genius and also why McGinn was signed to term in the first place.

Isnt it amazing how players coming here from other teams look really good for a few games until they get acclimated to Sullivan’s system and are slotted into a role? Wonder why….

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Tenured, comfortable NHL coaching is a bad thing like 90% of the time. But I'll never ceased to get lectured on how Sullivan is special, somehow.

This team's big wrinkle this year was evidently flipping centers on the powerplay for like five games OOoooOOooOOh! Watch out!

That's just it, imo. It's guys being uncomfortable with their job security, so they just default to the most boring as f***, safe-but-bland shit they can because it's better for the paycheck to play 'em to a draw and keep games plodding than to open things up and put on a good show.

But yeah, I agree. Coaches have a very finite shelf life. Or they should. Keep things fresh and all that.

 

[Angrrus]

What happened to all the goals we used to score? Did we use them up already? Why can’t we complete a pass, why cant the D transition the puck quickly and why can’t we manage the puck? Why am I asking so many questions?

THEY. SIMPLY. CON'T. CARE.

And thta starts with the "superstars".

 

[HandshakeLine]

Tenured, comfortable NHL coaching is a bad thing like 90% of the time. But I'll never ceased to get lectured on how Sullivan is special, somehow.

This team's big wrinkle this year was evidently flipping centers on the powerplay for like five games OOoooOOooOOh! Watch out!

And then we stopped doing it even though it looked good and was successful because we dropped a game, I guess?

Mike Sullivan has a coaching palate that only eats chicken nuggies.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

And then we stopped doing it even though it looked good and was successful because we dropped a game, I guess?

Mike Sullivan has a coaching palate that only eats chicken nuggies.

Yeah and that's the other thing... it... largely worked!

So naturally we can't have THAT!

Like WTF.

 

[Pancakes]

I think Sullivan needs to look in the mirror when he wonder why his top six plays poor defensively and only seems to care about offense.. when.. that’s exactly how he uses them.

He’s doing some things right this year. But his usual favorites that haven’t worked for years are complete burning him.

Petts - Petry should be leading the team in 5v5 usage.

POJ should be paired with Letang and they should be playing 18-20 minutes a night at most.

That gives you Dumo and Rutta as your bottom pairing playing 16-18.

Rakell should be getting all situational usage on the top PP and 5v5.

Sid and Rust need to be fixtures on the PK until it stops failing. If they drop Letang’s 5v5 time significantly they can put him back on the PK, preferably over Dumo.

Malkin and the Powerplay were doing fantastic with him playing the top C role. As soon as we stopped doing that the PP fell apart.

The problem is our LD was built with the assumption that Dumoulin could handle top 4 minutes and he doesn't seem able to any more. They can try POJ there, but if that doesn't work, we're fooked short of a trade. The only other thing left to try would be moving MP to play with Letang but that ruins what has been a decent second pair and if POJ can't handle playing with Letang I doubt he'll be all that much better handling the minutes with Petry.

I still think Letang is our best defenseman and should get ice time accordingly but it should be with someone other than Dumoulin.

On forward, I don't really care that much what they do. I'd prefer Rakell with Sid instead of Rust, but I don't think it matters that much. Our bottom six is terrible and I don't think any reorganization of those lines is gonna solve anything. The best they can hope for is that Blueger coming back gives a shot in the arm to that group.

But realistically our top six has to carry us and they should be capable of that regardless of how Sullivan does the lines.

Really, if our top six is gonna be this much of a struggle, maybe they should do something radical like put Guentzel with Malkin and Zucker with Sid. Sully will never in a million years do it but we're struggling so hard to score goals right now that maybe a change would spark things.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I definitely agree that it's time to find a better partner for Letang than whatever the f*** is left of The Player Formally Known As Dumoulin. That said, I think Letang has been largely just as bad, and I don't know that it's *entirely* Dumo's fault--though his presence is definitely magnifying the issue.

-edit- I just don't know that putting POJ up there fixes anything, or does anything to shake Letang outta whatever funk he is in. Hell, I think you run the risk of POJ getting pretty exposed in a bigger role against the opposition's top guys. I don't know if you split up Petts-Petry. I'd like to give Rutta a shot on his off side if he's comfortable there, but then you're running something like Dumo-POJ as a bottom pairing and that sounds awful too.

 

[Pancakes]

I definitely agree that it's time to find a better partner for Letang than whatever the f*** is left of The Player Formally Known As Dumoulin. That said, I think Letang has been largely just as bad, and I don't know that it's *entirely* Dumo's fault--though his presence is definitely magnifying the issue.

I don't think it's entirely Dumo's fault. Letang has been horrific in his own right lately.

I just think Letang has the potential to play better. Dumo looks toast. Dude noticeably can't skate any more. With Dumo it's not a matter of playing poorly it's a matter of losing his physical tools.

Letang I think has a lost a step relative to when he was younger but the tools are still there enough to play good hockey. He's just struggling mentally.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah and that's the other thing... it... largely worked!

So naturally we can't have THAT!

Like WTF.

It’s like this team can’t help but shoot itself in the dick every time something new actually works

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think it's entirely Dumo's fault. Letang has been horrific in his own right lately.

I just think Letang has the potential to play better. Dumo looks toast. Dude noticeably can't skate any more. With Dumo it's not a matter of playing poorly it's a matter of losing his physical tools.

Letang I think has a lost a step relative to when he was younger but the tools are still there enough to play good hockey. He's just struggling mentally.

Yeah. Knee/ankle injuries really cratered his game. Either he's physically incapable of doing what he needs to do anymore, or he's lost all confidence in his knee/ankle after the injuries. Either way, the physical issues are bad enough, but he's just out there watching shit all game. Zero proactive play from the dude, he's just immobile and waiting to get walked or out-muscled whenever he's on the ice.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The problem is our LD was built with the assumption that Dumoulin could handle top 4 minutes and he doesn't seem able to any more. They can try POJ there, but if that doesn't work, we're fooked short of a trade. The only other thing left to try would be moving MP to play with Letang but that ruins what has been a decent second pair and if POJ can't handle playing with Letang I doubt he'll be all that much better handling the minutes with Petry.

I still think Letang is our best defenseman and should get ice time accordingly but it should be with someone other than Dumoulin.

On forward, I don't really care that much what they do. I'd prefer Rakell with Sid instead of Rust, but I don't think it matters that much. Our bottom six is terrible and I don't think any reorganization of those lines is gonna solve anything. The best they can hope for is that Blueger coming back gives a shot in the arm to that group.

But realistically our top six has to carry us and they should be capable of that regardless of how Sullivan does the lines.

Really, if our top six is gonna be this much of a struggle, maybe they should do something radical like put Guentzel with Malkin and Zucker with Sid. Sully will never in a million years do it but we're struggling so hard to score goals right now that maybe a change would spark things.

I’m just kind of shocked tbh that people didn’t see Dumo’s struggles coming. He looked not great before the playoffs and then he tore his MCL.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It’s like this team can’t help but shoot itself in the dick every time something new actually works

It's almost like being utterly predictable and trying the same shit for half a decade+ with slightly varying personnel elicits attention and natural adjustment from other teams in short order or something and that consistently throwing new wrinkles and looks is a massive part of what makes otherwise-useless NHL coaching anywhere close to worthwhile.

I’m just kind of shocked tbh that people didn’t see Dumo’s struggles coming. He looked not great before the playoffs and then he tore his MCL.

Right? This seems like it's been coming down the road for a couple seasons?

 

[Andy99]

The Blue Jackets are the worst team in the Metro, followed by the Penguins…sad to say

 

[Pancakes]

I’m just kind of shocked tbh that people didn’t see Dumo’s struggles coming. He looked not great before the playoffs and then he tore his MCL.

Depends what you mean by "people". I think most of this board was worried.

Hextall clearly wasn't given he moved Matheson. Our LD depth is in a state where we can't even really do much with Dumo's slot even if we wanted to. Moving Dumo off of it means putting POJ into the top 4 and he may not be ready for that.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Gurgs and I talked about this a couple days ago, but I really have a bad feeling the team's just gonna hand Dumo a retirement deal and that's that. Even if I don't think they're entirely confident in him anymore, it achieves the whole "don't rock the boat too much in case you f*** up and end up making the inevitable rebuild even more difficult" thing the FO seems insistent on since Hextall took over. We're in agreement that of the established guys, Blueger's probably on his way out--particularly with Poehling's arrival and the 4C spot looking no worse in Blueger's absence.

But I can't help but have a bad feeling about Dumo, man. Whoever signs him, be it here or elsewhere, is gonna have a Scuderi-like player on their hands in short order and for the bulk of his next deal, imo. It's already a shitshow, down the road? Gross.

 

[Gurglesons]

The problem is our LD was built with the assumption that Dumoulin could handle top 4 minutes and he doesn't seem able to any more. They can try POJ there, but if that doesn't work, we're fooked short of a trade. The only other thing left to try would be moving MP to play with Letang but that ruins what has been a decent second pair and if POJ can't handle playing with Letang I doubt he'll be all that much better handling the minutes with Petry.

I still think Letang is our best defenseman and should get ice time accordingly but it should be with someone other than Dumoulin.

On forward, I don't really care that much what they do. I'd prefer Rakell with Sid instead of Rust, but I don't think it matters that much. Our bottom six is terrible and I don't think any reorganization of those lines is gonna solve anything. The best they can hope for is that Blueger coming back gives a shot in the arm to that group.

But realistically our top six has to carry us and they should be capable of that regardless of how Sullivan does the lines.

Really, if our top six is gonna be this much of a struggle, maybe they should do something radical like put Guentzel with Malkin and Zucker with Sid. Sully will never in a million years do it but we're struggling so hard to score goals right now that maybe a change would spark things.

I don’t really see how POJ - Letang would be any worse than we are seeing right now with Dumo - Letang.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don’t really see how POJ - Letang would be any worse than we are seeing right now with Dumo - Letang.

It has some precedent, too. And hasn't looked bad when used IIRC.

Dumo is a damned tire fire right now. I get LD depth is kinda yikes but FFS try SOMETHING.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don’t really see how POJ - Letang would be any worse than we are seeing right now with Dumo - Letang.

Don't think it can be, tbh. Dumo's been hot garbage. Even if I'm not ultra high on POJ and think he runs the risk of being overwhelmed pretty heavily with top pairing minutes/responsibility--particularly with this version of Letang.

But change is terrifying, so no thanks. We'll go with the hot garbage we know as opposed to exploring alternatives, thank you.