Bishop7979
Registered User
- Sep 9, 2005
- 1,786
- 298
If this team had a proper third line and eller and puljujarvi were two thirds of the fourth line I'd be ecstatic.
Post-Game Talk: Pens vs Kings: PP giveth and taketh away on Jagr night
- Thread starter Zirakzigil
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DesertedPenguin
Registered User
- Mar 11, 2007
- 6,951
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Kapanen has 4 goals and 11 points in 47 games. He is on pace for his lowest production in the NHL. He has fewer goals than his first half season in the NHL.
Petry has the same production as Marcus Pettersson while getting absolutely hammered in possession.
Zucker is well off his pace from last year and likely will not surpass 20 goals in a full season for the first time in 8 years.
Sullivan's not above criticism, but it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that the above three are doing better than they were last year.
Gurglesons
Registered User
They are playing roles on playoff teams. Yotes have more points than us.
Sullivan isn’t the only one at fault, our player evaluation has been miserable for awhile.
BusinessGoose
Registered User
Zbynek
Jarry friggin sucks dude
29er is so unfathomably bad on commentary that of course as soon as he says "Pens might have one last push in them here!" they turn it over and Kempe scores the winner (on the PP).
+Jagr
+Jagr F Bomb
+Steiggy
-This team
-Mike Sullivan
-Dubas
-FSG
Lmao that avi is so funny. The state of the org right now. "Oh f***"
+Jagr
+Jagr F Bomb
+Steiggy
-This team
-Mike Sullivan
-Dubas
-FSG
Lmao that avi is so funny. The state of the org right now. "Oh f***"
Why do the Pens Never retired Ron Francis Jersey?
Zbynek
Jarry friggin sucks dude
Probably because he's more associated with the Hartford/Carolina org
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
I said I'd keep those players, ideally I would move O'Connor since he likely won't do much for the Pens even with a new coach, he just needs a fresh start, the other 2 you mention - A new coach that will use them correctly, you're reading more into it than I stated, mate.
Fire Sully, yes. I don't think there's any moves Dubas can make that will rocket this team into some sort of contender this season.
You'd need to get a coach that will understand the top 6 and how to use a top 6 (Gallant is the name I mentioned because he's actually very good at this sort of thing, identifying how to utilize the top 9 to generate offense), then you need to make moves to at least make that top 9 start producing.
To make that happen? (this season)
First you need to drop Eller down to 4C where he anchors the 4th line as a solid pivot for that role, throw in Gruden and maybe rotate Hinostroza and someone else and roll with that, at least that saves cap.
Dubas would then need to add a 3C that can produce in a less restrictive role that Sullivan would have put them in, so really, any 3C currently in the league that is available will maybe actually work this time in that role. Now for this? I actually don't mind keeping O'Connor and Puljujarvi or Puustinen for as the usage is a huge factor, Sullivan has never understood any of that.
Top 6? Well - Guentzel, you either hang on to him and move him in the summer where the return won't be much but before the window they can talk to teams, if a team has the cap and wants to get him signed asap so they can make the next moves off that, sure maybe you wait - really bad risk though. Or you sign Guentzel to a crippling contract, because the max years are 8, there's no chance Guentzel is going for the bargain anyone here thinks. He's 30, just had a baby, he's on the verge of missing the playoffs twice if he stays under Sully. Or you deal him at the TDL and maybe target less of the multiple picks and talk to a team on Jake's list (the other teams excluded from his 12 team list) and aim for a young winger, a prospect, and a conditional pick that can be a first - based on his performance (takes them to the Conf finals is a 1st, they bounce in the 1st round it isn't, but if they sign him, it's a 1st). The latter I can deal with as it still gives this team hope under a new coach.
Malkin, Dubas can't f*** around here, either he finally look at providing him the proper support for wingers like they love to do for Sid and give Malkin that same respect or move Malkin to wing and pray a 2C that is having a down year is available and the team will take less to just remove the contract. The funny thing is I would love to see Granlund be back either with Geno as the C for Malkin or the 3rd line under a new coach and see him keep thriving just as a massive "See FSG, your f***ing boy was the problem."But MG isn't struggling, SJ will probably get something good for him at the TDL. Names aren't as important for the point I am trying to make here, but you get what I am getting at now?
For "fire Sully and do these things" it's a lot. You fire Sully now just to make as many moves as you can to situate yourself for an off-season with more cap space and maneuverability as well as add more draft picks to really make this the big draft to re-stock as much as possible so near the final year of Sid, Geno, Tang, they can start to push for a roster spot and have a chance at learning from some Pens legends.
They have 5 picks out of 7, they don't have their 1st, 3rd, and 5th and have two 7 rounders (2nd, 4th, 6th, and 7x2) - If Dubas is smart and sees his opportunity to really reshape the Penguins and get a quicker turn around, he fires Sullivan tomorrow morning and starts to move some pieces out and finish the season on a positive note with better performances and usage out of players because players LIKE Puustinen, Puljujarvi, Gruden, O'Connor, Joseph, etc all deserve to be coached by someone that will actively give them a chance to succeed in positions to succeed rather than punish them for not being grinder veterans. Then heading into the summer, he can move them if need be to just cull and look at Euro free agents to bring over etc.
DesertedPenguin
Registered User
- Mar 11, 2007
- 6,951
- 7,740
I mean, Zach Sill played a role on a playoff team. That's a pretty low bar to clear.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
I'd still put his number up there. Those 2 cups that cemented the Legend of Mario & Jagr never happen without Ron Francis coming in.
613pts in 533 games (he already had 700-800+ pts with Hartford before coming over, he was already "GOATED" as it were). 100pts in 97 Playoff games, was a huge reason Mario was able to still dominate by allowing Francis to carry a lot of the heavy lifting down the middle. "Ronnie Franchise" deserves his jersey up there. Parts of 8 seasons, sits 7th all time for Pens points while not even being top 10 for games played as a Penguin, he also sits 6th all time on the Pens for playoff pts. So at best, honoring his number just feels right given the years he played and his importance over the other additions via trade/signing that helped them win back 2 back.
The thing is, I think they should "Honor" some numbers, not outright retire them so no one else can wear them.
#29, #10, #58 should all be "Honored" while #71 and #87 should join 21, 66, and 68.
DesertedPenguin
Registered User
- Mar 11, 2007
- 6,951
- 7,740
The Pens have both a Ring of Honor and a Hall of Fame.
List of Pittsburgh Penguins award winners - Wikipedia
They have a display in the locker room. Jagr was recently added back to it after his image was removed following the 2011 decision to go to the Flyers.
I haven't been in PPG in a few years, but there have been displays in the past. There used to be a formal ring of honor at Civic Arena. Hopefully they create something similar now that they're adding to the honors again.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
The Pens have both a Ring of Honor and a Hall of Fame.
List of Pittsburgh Penguins award winners - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
They have a display in the locker room. Jagr was recently added back to it after his image was removed following the 2011 decision to go to the Flyers.
I haven't been in PPG in a few years, but there have been displays in the past. There used to be a formal ring of honor at Civic Arena. Hopefully they create something similar now that they're adding to the honors again.
More or less just for the rafters so fans can look up and be in awe of the many legends that added to the Penguins Championship lore.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
The mind f***ery that Sullivan pulled on Kapanen was master class shit, like if you told a real like Palpatine what Sullivan did to Kap, even Palpatine would be like "Jesus christ, that's diabolical." - He also had an injury that had him out for a while. Kapanen is a player that is lost and is likely just looking for the season to end and start over with a new coach getting a full off season to figure stuff out.
Petry is playing Defense for a playoff team though.
Zucker had some injury (and suspension) issues - He started with 2 goals in his first 5 games, then got hurt (lower body injury) and finally came back in November, he currently has a 0.5ppg pace which isn't exactly terrible. Weird thing is you think he's going to play a "full season" this year, missing 10 games. He's essentially not far off from the pace he was on last season and he was with Geno vs his time in Arizona so far.
Blueger, Lafferty, Sprong, Pearson (when he left), Marino bounced back, Matheson, and then to a lesser extent a bloke like Justin Schultz immediately turned a corner leaving the Pens with his play for the Caps, etc. Acted petty with Ian Cole and Phil Kessel, arguing with both and both were traded soon after. Pined for Brassard and got him, then threw him into the usage shit that he's repeated every year since, oddly the only immune player was Riley Sheahan and even Sullivan f***ed him over by wanting someone else. Then he presented the idea of why the team needed Jack Johnson, literally an entire game plan presented to JR for why they should sign him and how he plans on using him with Gonchar's help. "Talent evaluation" is not something Sullivan understands. Bjugstad was another, Sullivan couldn't decide, like with McCann whether he wanted him to be a C or W, so Bjugstad never found a groove and with McCann was being dicked around like that as well, he would finally look comfortable at C and Sullivan would pull him back to W in the top 6, as a RW for Sid, or some other shit.
Prioritized playing Jankowski for far too long when Gaudreau was better, didn't care Kapanen was a heavy PK utilized player in Toronto and figured f*** it I am going to use him how I want to vs using him to his strengths and that situation went so badly, Kapanen looked like he was going through mental health issues - Which I am sure you're going to say some dumb shit like "well then don't play the game" because yeah f*** them for being human and being treated like shit, right? There was a moment when Carter took him under his wing and Kapanen talked about that, when he scored after a long drought, the team genuinely was ecstatic for him in ways I can't describe without showing you the game and the footage, especially how Carter comes to him for the big hug.
This coach needed to go a few years back, there's no rational f***ing reason to defend him and also act like the bullshit he's done and continues to do, isn't damaging to this team.
To healthy scratch Gruden and Puustinen to play a waiver pick-up that had barely 1 practice and then to dress a 4th liner that brings nothing to the team, right away from a concussion? That's ignorant as f***. Then you look at how he utilized the roster he does have, which is his own doing mind you, had he not f***ed so many players up with his idiotic idea of how to use the bottom 6 or essentially any winger they added that they rotate off of Geno's line to give Sid, the Pens would have had more options.
Dubas also signed Hinostroza and Sullivan gave him less rope than Harkins and Hinostroza actually produced a f***ing goal in similar usage. Let that sink in - THEY f***ING DEMOTED HINOSTROZA FOR PUTTING UP MORE PTS IN 14 GAMES THAN WHITE AND HARKINS COMBINED.
THIS
IS
SULLIVAN'S
f***ING
FAULT
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
I even remember the idiotic shit Sullivan was pulling with Kahun, forget what he did after he left, when a player comes and actually looks good and then Sullivan decides to torpedo his usage so he gets moved, what the f***?
Kahun had some brief looks on Geno's line too when Sid was hurt that season and Jake got hurt as well after having his best ppg stretch of his entire Career thus far, but you'd then see him shifted down so Simon or someone could play up later in the game. That was also the year everyone learned Guentzel's true spot should have been Geno and Rust should have stayed with Geno since but nah, f*** all that, right? But the player that really struggled, while his points won't show it, his play overall did - Jared McCann. He really settled into the C role when Sid was hurt and immediately started to gain chemistry with Kahun.
I remember a few of the usages that had Kahun and McCann actually, both looked great together for long stretches.
One was a version of - Kahun, McCann, ZAR - they turned into a solid trio for a stretch.
Kahun - McCann - Galchenyuk had good looks.
The duo of Kahun + McCann, for a coach that got a hard on for his "pairs" theory, completely f***ed McCann to shove him into other usage instead of growing a 3C we desperately needed.
The funniest stuff that season - Sullivan kept trying to make McCann a powerplay player, refused to use Galchenyuk for an area of the game he was better suited for, kept playing Simon over Kahun and Kahun kept playing well anyway and brought to life lines he had no business doing that with.
That same petty horse shit has been his trademark for a while. Blokes just didn't want to see the patterns because they weren't "big names" and even then, a big name or two or three struggle and the blame shifts to those players rather than Mike Sullivan.
Some of you will focus on the names and have a strong opinion about how good or bad they were after or whatever, but if you want to remember - those usage warts were on full display even back to that season. Sullivan was levels of petty that was just astounding. That year there was a moment where Sullivan had to decide if he didn't want to be the epic piece of shit that he is, Sid came back, he could have put Galchenyuk with Sid and Simon but instead he took McCann off the third line and put him with Sid & Simon (who had no business being in the top 6, even Tanev or Horny was a better choice), leaving Agozzino as the 3C and Chucky was on the 3rd line. That was when you had more proof Sullivan had no idea how to use a line-up to maintain depth and chemistry.
Kahun had some brief looks on Geno's line too when Sid was hurt that season and Jake got hurt as well after having his best ppg stretch of his entire Career thus far, but you'd then see him shifted down so Simon or someone could play up later in the game. That was also the year everyone learned Guentzel's true spot should have been Geno and Rust should have stayed with Geno since but nah, f*** all that, right? But the player that really struggled, while his points won't show it, his play overall did - Jared McCann. He really settled into the C role when Sid was hurt and immediately started to gain chemistry with Kahun.
I remember a few of the usages that had Kahun and McCann actually, both looked great together for long stretches.
One was a version of - Kahun, McCann, ZAR - they turned into a solid trio for a stretch.
Kahun - McCann - Galchenyuk had good looks.
The duo of Kahun + McCann, for a coach that got a hard on for his "pairs" theory, completely f***ed McCann to shove him into other usage instead of growing a 3C we desperately needed.
The funniest stuff that season - Sullivan kept trying to make McCann a powerplay player, refused to use Galchenyuk for an area of the game he was better suited for, kept playing Simon over Kahun and Kahun kept playing well anyway and brought to life lines he had no business doing that with.
That same petty horse shit has been his trademark for a while. Blokes just didn't want to see the patterns because they weren't "big names" and even then, a big name or two or three struggle and the blame shifts to those players rather than Mike Sullivan.
Some of you will focus on the names and have a strong opinion about how good or bad they were after or whatever, but if you want to remember - those usage warts were on full display even back to that season. Sullivan was levels of petty that was just astounding. That year there was a moment where Sullivan had to decide if he didn't want to be the epic piece of shit that he is, Sid came back, he could have put Galchenyuk with Sid and Simon but instead he took McCann off the third line and put him with Sid & Simon (who had no business being in the top 6, even Tanev or Horny was a better choice), leaving Agozzino as the 3C and Chucky was on the 3rd line. That was when you had more proof Sullivan had no idea how to use a line-up to maintain depth and chemistry.
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Big Friggin Dummy
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2019
- 24,426
- 23,028
Good on the Pens for going the extra mile in making Jagr feel right at home by being a dogshit team where their only hope for winning is whether one guy can will them to victory each night. Just like the good old days. 
Headshot77
Bad Photoshopper
- Feb 15, 2015
- 3,938
- 1,933
I don't. This roster is putrid once you subtract Crosby and Guentzel.
Big Friggin Dummy
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2019
- 24,426
- 23,028
You fire Sullivan because he's manned the ship as it's been rapidly sinking the past handful of years. Not because it'll fix this team or vault them into the playoffs.
You replace people not doing their jobs. Sullivan and Reirden have not been doing their jobs.
You replace people not doing their jobs. Sullivan and Reirden have not been doing their jobs.
Jacob
as seen on TV
- Feb 27, 2002
- 49,499
- 25,098
It never makes sense to me when the puck comes to Karlsson or Letang at the point in the O zone and they do a shoulder dip or a fake shot and then pass D-to-D. Would we rather Karlsson/Letang making a play to the net or Graves/Pettersson? The latter 2 will not (and probably should not) get the puck back to Karlsson/Letang so it ends up being them that puts the puck on net, or just dumped back around.
I partially get it. There's often no traffic in front or the shooting lane is taken. The first issue isn't the D's problem and the second issue is a skill issue that I'd rather Karlsson/Letang handle than anyone else. A little curl and drag or a step to the middle and fire it. Karlsson especially should be putting way more pucks on net way quicker. If there's no screen or traffic that's on the forwards and you take it up with them. But if the D are more predictable about quickly putting pucks on net the forwards would be stupid to not be going there with more regularity.
I partially get it. There's often no traffic in front or the shooting lane is taken. The first issue isn't the D's problem and the second issue is a skill issue that I'd rather Karlsson/Letang handle than anyone else. A little curl and drag or a step to the middle and fire it. Karlsson especially should be putting way more pucks on net way quicker. If there's no screen or traffic that's on the forwards and you take it up with them. But if the D are more predictable about quickly putting pucks on net the forwards would be stupid to not be going there with more regularity.
Icarium
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2010
- 3,949
- 5,625
We might have the only power play in the world that looks worse the longer it possesses the puck. It's downright hilarious. If you ask someone not familiar with the roster, they would probably say these players have never played together and hardly ever played on the power play in their lives. This kind of ineptitude in a team with so much experience and so many power play goals scored by its stars in their careers beggars belief.
Once again, the Penguins fall apart after allowing a goal. Groundhog Day: Penguins Edition. I don't know how you guys watch these games with fast-forwarding, I fast-forwarded most of it and still got bored.
Once again, the Penguins fall apart after allowing a goal. Groundhog Day: Penguins Edition. I don't know how you guys watch these games with fast-forwarding, I fast-forwarded most of it and still got bored.
Josey Wales
Registered User
- May 16, 2022
- 3,557
- 1,331
It's Called Lying to yourself, that the ONLY problem is Sullivan & or Coaching Staff
TooManyHumans
Registered User
- May 4, 2018
- 2,385
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This team has been dead in the water for years now. They continue to make that completely obvious and yet the organization continues to act as though it isn't the case. Surely they now have to blow this crap up but I am not holding my breath.
BrookswasHere44
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2009
- 4,047
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Buddy Bizarre
Registered User
- Jul 9, 2021
- 5,684
- 4,006
If I'm playing the Pens, I'm taking penalties all game long. There literally is no downside to doing so
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
The Pens have both a Ring of Honor and a Hall of Fame.
List of Pittsburgh Penguins award winners - Wikipedia
They have a display in the locker room. Jagr was recently added back to it after his image was removed following the 2011 decision to go to the Flyers.
I haven't been in PPG in a few years, but there have been displays in the past. There used to be a formal ring of honor at Civic Arena. Hopefully they create something similar now that they're adding to the honors again.
LOL Geno, Maybe the young players, I'm slow and smart !!!
What is most troubling to me is that is would appear a number of guys simply don't give a crap and they play like it. Smith and Rakell in particular play like they can't be bothered with giving a shit. Of course, Puljujarvi will wonder why bother as well soon enough.
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