Post-Game Talk: | Pens vs Devils | loss | Special teams? I think you mean pathetic teams

[Honour Over Glory]

This team's never been as good on the power play as the personnel afforded to them would suggest. Kessel brought a decisiveness and control that Sid, Geno and Letang simply do not possess, as good as they are as players.


You can shop both Jake and Rust, tbh.

I was never open to it until the fate of Sullivan being here was determined. Because there’s only one usage for Jake and it’s with Sid and when he struggles you run into this. Where the coach refuses him a demotion which he’s earned and try him elsewhere. I’d almost rather leverage his playoff prowess in the past and his contract, age, etc to land maybe a few pieces that help.

I just hate that the one major change won’t be made because of an extension.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Getzlaf led his team to an ECF in 2017.

Cool? We may have gotten out of the 2nd round last year. Never a cup winning team, not anymore.

Fire Sully because this whole city is stupid about coaches. Thinking tenure gives you extra points. Very dumb. But I have no illusions that we will go to the promised land.

In Gretzky's final 2-3 seasons was he still "generational"? Do you get that label and people act like you are still a top 10-20 player until you retire?

weird how Carter on RW suddenly made his line functional.

But what would we know. Everything is Sid and Malkin’s fault. They are 2018 Getzlaf.

A substantial piece of the blame.pie is Teddy Blueger's $2.2M salary

 

[Honour Over Glory]

They're basically 2Cs at this point. And that's being generous.

And that’s actually fine. Because then you just need to find the right usage for their line mates. But the coach only uses the same two moves to spark their lines and it’s getting clear that they need a different set up.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Man, I like Friedman because he's a dickhead and shit-disturber, but if we're clamoring for Friedman to get regular time, we're in a mess. Dude's not very good. Though, the other option is Dumo, and that dude's on the fast track to Scuderiville.

Team just kinda needs another bottom pairing guy with some physicality, I think. Or they just have to commit to allowing Smith to play through the inevitable growing pains of trying to develop into an impact guy at this level. Might never happen, but he's gotta get a consistent spot for it to even have a chance to happen--which brings me to Sully again. I doubt Sully would be fine just throwing out a poor man's Justin Schultz who has to learn and develop on the job.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Cool? We may have gotten out of the 2nd round last year. Never a cup winning team, not anymore.

Fire Sully because this whole city is stupid about coaches. Thinking tenure gives you extra points. Very dumb. But I have no illusions that we will go to the promised land.

In Gretzky's final 2-3 seasons was he still "generational"? Do you get that label and people act like you are still a top 10-20 player until you retire?


A substantial piece of the blame.pie is Teddy Blueger's $2.2M salary

Teddy is on the 4th line doing 4th line things. I mean at this point if the coach wasn’t so heavily reliant on him on the PK and actually tried more players on the unit, Hextall can maybe move him now given his contract status as there’s teams that covet him. Hell I would bet JR would love to get him in Vancouver and stop the defensive bleeding in his bottom 6.

I think Poehling can do a great job in his place in that usage. Carter is a whole different problem, Dumoulin, Ruhwedel, and Heinen as well.

I actually think Heinen is on his way out soon. I feel like he’s the first trade they make in a week or so. But it needs to be more. An injection of youth has shown more promise than the old hats that are clearly done and should not be getting the same responsibilities.

Man, I like Friedman because he's a dickhead and shit-disturber, but if we're clamoring for Friedman to get regular time, we're in a mess. Dude's not very good. Though, the other option is Dumo, and that dude's on the fast track to Scuderiville.

Team just kinda needs another bottom pairing guy with some physicality, I think. Or they just have to commit to allowing Smith to play through the inevitable growing pains of trying to develop into an impact guy at this level. Might never happen, but he's gotta get a consistent spot for it to even have a chance to happen--which brings me to Sully again. I doubt Sully would be fine just throwing out a poor man's Justin Schultz who has to learn and develop on the job.

I don’t think anyone is advocating for Friedman to be a regular. Merely the 7th over Ruhwedel. Smith over Dumoulin as a regular is the argument and it’s a fair one because Dumo sucks the big one.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Teddy is on the 4th line doing 4th line things. I mean at this point if the coach wasn’t so heavily reliant on him on the PK and actually tried more players on the unit, Hextall can maybe move him now given his contract status as there’s teams that covet him. Hell I would bet JR would love to get him in Vancouver and stop the defensive bleeding in his bottom 6.

I think Poehling can do a great job in his place in that usage. Carter is a whole different problem, Dumoulin, Ruhwedel, and Heinen as well.

I actually think Heinen is on his way out soon. I feel like he’s the first trade they make in a week or so. But it needs to be more. An injection of youth has shown more promise than the old hats that are clearly done and should not be getting the same responsibilities.


I don’t think anyone is advocating for Friedman to be a regular. Merely the 7th over Ruhwedel. Smith over Dumoulin as a regular is the argument and it’s a fair one because Dumo sucks the big one.

Teddy is one of our better players for sure, despite what a PPG watcher insista

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I was never open to it until the fate of Sullivan being here was determined. Because there’s only one usage for Jake and it’s with Sid and when he struggles you run into this. Where the coach refuses him a demotion which he’s earned and try him elsewhere. I’d almost rather leverage his playoff prowess in the past and his contract, age, etc to land maybe a few pieces that help.

I just hate that the one major change won’t be made because of an extension.

It's just so weird. Like, Sully still had two years left, and he was four consecutive 1st round exits deep.

Even putting aside my desire to replace specifically Sully for years and my aggravation with his (and tbh all NHL coaches') idiosyncrasies and neurosis... Just, why? Why would any coach be due for an extension before his current deal even expires with that sorta recent result?

Teddy is on the 4th line doing 4th line things. I mean at this point if the coach wasn’t so heavily reliant on him on the PK and actually tried more players on the unit, Hextall can maybe move him now given his contract status as there’s teams that covet him. Hell I would bet JR would love to get him in Vancouver and stop the defensive bleeding in his bottom 6.

I think Poehling can do a great job in his place in that usage. Carter is a whole different problem, Dumoulin, Ruhwedel, and Heinen as well.

I actually think Heinen is on his way out soon. I feel like he’s the first trade they make in a week or so. But it needs to be more. An injection of youth has shown more promise than the old hats that are clearly done and should not be getting the same responsibilities.


I don’t think anyone is advocating for Friedman to be a regular. Merely the 7th over Ruhwedel. Smith over Dumoulin as a regular is the argument and it’s a fair one because Dumo sucks the big one.

Yeah, wherever Dumo ends up, that team's getting end of career Scuderi for a few years with Dumo's new deal. Guy's been declining heavily for years, and now is just complete dumpster fire.

But he'll be kept around at like $2 million for his calming veteran presence on the bottom pair. Just watch.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The penguins are just not a hard team to play against and it’s been joked about but it’s been mostly true - the type of players we need, Sullivan despises. It’s why Friedman isn’t a 7th over Ruhwedel. I bet Sully borderline dislikes Zucker for being a pest too.

 

[Gurglesons]

Cool? We may have gotten out of the 2nd round last year. Never a cup winning team, not anymore.

Fire Sully because this whole city is stupid about coaches. Thinking tenure gives you extra points. Very dumb. But I have no illusions that we will go to the promised land.

In Gretzky's final 2-3 seasons was he still "generational"? Do you get that label and people act like you are still a top 10-20 player until you retire?


A substantial piece of the blame.pie is Teddy Blueger's $2.2M salary

So what? You just stop trying?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Teddy is one of our better players for sure, despite what a PPG watcher insista

Teddy is fantastic at the 2 way game but when you’ve beaten the offence out of him with usage like that, he’s stunted on the team. Carter is also there and blocked any chance he had to get out of that role and Blueger, mind you, would need a solid month of playing out of that ridiculous defensive role to even get some traction in that way in his game. So the writing is on the wall for him. Sullivan sees him as a defense only player and that’s it. For that price, it makes zero sense.

 

[Tender Rip]

Man, I like Friedman because he's a dickhead and shit-disturber, but if we're clamoring for Friedman to get regular time, we're in a mess. Dude's not very good. Though, the other option is Dumo, and that dude's on the fast track to Scuderiville.

We are a soft team to play against and Friedman is not. He is not vanilla, and it is good for our team to have a little of that. He is also super cheap and so far playing very solid D. Indeed he has most the time he has been up, but he is not vanilla, so Sully thinks him a lose cannon.

 

[ChaosAgent]

So what? You just stop trying?

I'd fire the coach but I'm not gonna act like it's a panacea. Unlike you who uses Sully as the plug factor to reconcile the reality of the team's performance against your love of the players

 

[Gurglesons]

Teddy is one of our better players for sure, despite what a PPG watcher insista

Blueger is what he is. A 25-30 pt forward who can PK okay, and can’t score and is making 2.2 mil.

Poehling is doing his role better than him this year. Reward the play. Not the name.

 

[SEALBound]

f*** these f***ing losers.

0 for 9 and give up a shorty as the GWG

f***ING LOSERS

 

[Gurglesons]

We are a soft team to play against and Friedman is not. He is not vanilla, and it is good for our team to have a little of that. He is also super cheap and so far playing very solid D. Indeed he has most the time he has been up, but he is not vanilla, so Sully thinks him a lose cannon.

He also can easily replace what Dumoulin is bringing us this year. I don’t know why people find this stuff so absurd or act like little changes can’t do a lot.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The penguins are just not a hard team to play against and it’s been joked about but it’s been mostly true - the type of players we need, Sullivan despises. It’s why Friedman isn’t a 7th over Ruhwedel. I bet Sully borderline dislikes Zucker for being a pest too.

I get the gist of the post, and I mostly agree with everything except Sully-Zucker. Dude adores and seems to think of Zucker as the son he never had.

 

[Gurglesons]

I get the gist of the post, and I mostly agree with everything except Sully-Zucker. Dude adores and seems to think of Zucker as the son he never had.

Really? Because his usage of him is bizarre and awful.

 

[Coastal Kev]

The irony here is for years you have been preaching "play youth play youth!" And Hextall doesnt like trading picks and wants to restock the farm.

So this doesn't add up to your arguments.

Really? How did Hextall's offseason promote youth? If he had let Carter, Rust and Heinen walk and move doumo, you would have had a huge influx of youth.

Of course you would have needed a new coach. Hextall has been a disaster for the franchise. And you won't see the true results of his tenure until he's gone. see flyers

 

[Ryder71]

Very predictable outcome. A young fast Speedy team up front against an old decrepit Pittsburgh Penguins team. The longer the game went the less chance we had. I look for us to lose the next two as well.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

We are a soft team to play against and Friedman is not. He is not vanilla, and it is good for our team to have a little of that. He is also super cheap and so far playing very solid D. Indeed he has most the time he has been up, but he is not vanilla, so Sully thinks him a lose cannon.

I agree. I've been advocating for remaking the middle-6 in a bigger, more physical way for a long while and would welcome a guy who makes opposing players think about being around the crease.

I just think Friedman also kinda sucks, but so do Dumo and Ruhwedel so it's whatever. A stylistic change, but not really a change I see doing much of anything in terms of outcome of games.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We are a soft team to play against and Friedman is not. He is not vanilla, and it is good for our team to have a little of that. He is also super cheap and so far playing very solid D. Indeed he has most the time he has been up, but he is not vanilla, so Sully thinks him a lose cannon.

Anyone that shows any sort of “truculence” for a lack of a better term and a Burke nod, he almost punishes because he doesn’t think that’s how you can win games in his idea of “play the right way” because he’s shown how he’s used those types and how he dislikes them.

It’s weird. I said it above as well, this team is not hard to play and playing players that make it hard to play against is not something this coach likes. I’m shocked Archibald wasn’t scratched after the first month. But then again, he’s a veteran and he loves his vets.

Really? How did Hextall's offseason promote youth? If he had let Carter, Rust and Heinen walk and move doumo, you would have had a huge influx of youth.

Of course you would have needed a new coach. Hextall has been a disaster for the franchise. And you won't see the true results of his tenure until he's gone. see flyers

This team has had multiple injuries and that means opportunity for youth. Instead of trying them in meaningful ways, Sullivan has almost begrudgingly used them on 3rd and 4th line usage exclusively. As a GM how do you fix that knowing your coach wants certain types and has the ear of the owners and the owners also wanting the core to get their contracts and stay.

I think the person done the dirtiest by the old owners and new ones is Hextall. Not quite sure why there’s so much hate for him by you and PensX

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I agree. I've been advocating for remaking the middle-6 in a bigger, more physical way for a long while and would welcome a guy who makes opposing players think about being around the crease.

I just think Friedman also kinda sucks, but so do Dumo and Ruhwedel so it's whatever. A stylistic change, but not really a change I see doing much of anything in terms of outcome of games.

It’s not even about big and physical. It’s just a lack of energy. Carter is gassed like 10 seconds into his shift, Heinen is probably one of the most useless forwards I’ve ever seen on this team since Daniel Winnik. Even just allowing some creativity to flow is against the rules by the coach.

You’d almost have to get rid of half the forward group and even then you’d almost worry the ones that are left over, he’s still going to use them above the players he should use.

 

[BobCole]

You can shop Jake

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I get the gist of the post, and I mostly agree with everything except Sully-Zucker. Dude adores and seems to think of Zucker as the son he never had.

And yet he avoids him on the top unit and even with Crosby earlier on when it looked good as a Sid option. He had Zucker on the third line and I think the fact that Zucker is healthy and producing like a solid top 9 winger is why he’s on the second line as sully could never explain dropping him lower. He’d have to definitely answer for that one in the media.

I mean literally in the Wings game he had Heinen back up with Malkin and Zucker had 2 goals in that damn game.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It’s not even about big and physical. It’s just a lack of energy. Carter is gassed like 10 seconds into his shift, Heinen is probably one of the most useless forwards I’ve ever seen on this team since Daniel Winnik. Even just allowing some creativity to flow is against the rules by the coach.

You’d almost have to get rid of half the forward group and even then you’d almost worry the ones that are left over, he’s still going to use them above the players he should use.

I mean, you could pretty much get rid of everybody and I wouldn't give a shit. I'm entirely ready for the rebuild as opposed to this stale fart, steady decline and ever more boring hockey for this core's farewell tour. Sid and Geno still have too much juice left for the team to do that, obviously, so it's another several years of this boring garbage and everybody screaming and crying about the team not being as good as it could be when this team's just not ever gonna be good again in the era. Like you said, you'd basically need to reshuffle a ton of pieces to get one last real good shot out of the era, imo, and ownership/FO don't seem to give a shit to do it.