Post-Game Talk: | Pens vs Avs | OTW | The ranch (team) comes first!
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Gurglesons
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Which is why Vasi gets paid 550% more than Desmith.
Zbynek
Jarry friggin sucks dude
It's okay man he's a top 45 goalie. Not sure what you were expecting Hextall to do, pay 200k more and get a guy like Martin Jones who has Stanley Cup final experience under his belt? That's just crazy talk man.
Gurglesons
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Pens x
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I think we’ve reached a new low on this site, defending Casey DeSmith after one good game. I haven’t heard a hot take this bad since those claiming Jarry isn’t injury prone.
Gurglesons
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I'd gladly take an improvement over him, but realistically none were available this summer via UFA or trade outside of Samsanov who I advocated for.
ChaosAgent
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Having the team get its teeth kicked in, Jarry injured and then a $2.5m backup goalie playing hero.
Definitely the most likely path to glory.
Definitely the most likely path to glory.
Gurglesons
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The only stinker in that wonderful series was G2. Although Stamkos being held pointless for the first three games kind of stunk.
Gurglesons
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Regardless, when we start paying our goaltending more combined than an average starter, I'm fine criticizing it.
Why, Pixies, in these threads, of course you can criticize whatever you like, but you seemed to have missed the point of the original question, but that's ok. And I'm pretty certain you won't find a single TB fan who doesn't think Vasi is worth every penny of his $9.5MM deal. Funny to think we pay both our goaltenders just three quarters of what Matt Murray makes now.
Gurglesons
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I always miss the point. That’s what years of alcohol and drug abuse does
Signing the lease for Joshua Tree on the 28th btw.
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Night Shift
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By this logic why pay 2 top centers 17.8 million when they lose in the first round every year and occasionally have bad games?
BusinessGoose
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Why even wake up every day if we're all just going to die eventually?
Gurglesons
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Because every cup winner has center depth.
Colorado just won a cup with an average goalie. St Louis did it. We essentially did it twice.
It’s way easier to get a goaltender that goes on a hot run in a playoff run then it is to get a top six center. Plus we are only spending 15 mil on our C depth cap hit wise now
Night Shift
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I know that but I'm trying to make a point that I'd rather go into a series with an elite goalie than not.
Pens x
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Then why the f*** do you re-sign the backup that has been injured for two straight playoffs??????
I can’t blame sleepy for not predicting Jarry would have a bunch of injuries this year, but how could an NHL GM possibly re-sign DeSmith, even at a discount? We just witnessed how important goaltending is but dumbass stayed the course. Jarry still hasn’t shown he can play in April but the team felt DeSmith was a good back up? How does the GM still have a job?
Sure, it’s only a back up goalie, but if sleepy is too dumb to not see this, what else is he missing? (A lot)
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HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
but there's no money for an elite goalie with where we've spent money elsewhere.
you want an elite goalie? you need to cut the fat .
to clarify, i'd be fine with us running a cheapo bottom 6 and 3rd pairing to free up that cash. but we don't have that and the bottom 6/3rd pairing isn't getting cheaper without significant moves.
Empoleon8771
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Like I said on the last page, the skill gap difference between professional goalies is incredibly small. That's why you see examples of beer league adult goalies going into NHL games and actually being able to make some stops. The skill gap difference between goalies is substantially smaller than it is between skaters. What makes the best goalies the best goalies is that they can do it every night. That's what DeSmith doesn't have, he can do it in spurts (like he did yesterday) but he can't consistently maintain that level.
There are truly elite goalies that take the skill level to a new high, but very few goalies fall in that category. You have maybe 5 goalies in the NHL right now who fall into that group (Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Shesterkin and Hellebuyck are the current ones IMO). But pretty much every other goalie falls in similar skill ranges, it's just the starters have consistency levels that the backups don't have. It's why you regularly see goalies go from having a great season as a starter to being a shitty backup. It's all just a law of averages with most goalies, if they're playing at unsustainable levels for a season, they'll likely come crashing back down in the next season.
I firmly believe you could put any high level goalie (meaning anything from juniors up) in the NHL and they can get a shutout in a NHL game. It's just like when Alexander Pechurskiy came into a game for the Penguins in 2009-2010 when he was an okay WHL goalie and stopped 12 of 13 shots. With that being said, if you want a goalie who will be giving you a .925 save% every single game, your pretty much only option is to internally develop them. Maybe you can get one by paying them over $10 million in free agency, but it will almost definitely need to come from internal development.
The TLDR of this is that DeSmith isn't a problem as a backup, his issue is that his inconsistencies are getting exposed because he's playing too much due to Jarry's issues. Any other backup goalie you could get instead would have the same inconsistency issues. They could totally be performing better than DeSmith, but that good performance is also going to come with an inevitable shitty performance.
You may think I have really dumb takes on skaters, coaches, GMs and whatnot, but I'm 100% confident in my goalie takes. I played goalie my entire life and understand what goes into the position. You can't apply skater standards of "if a player is playing bad, it means he's not good" standard with goalies.
There are truly elite goalies that take the skill level to a new high, but very few goalies fall in that category. You have maybe 5 goalies in the NHL right now who fall into that group (Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Shesterkin and Hellebuyck are the current ones IMO). But pretty much every other goalie falls in similar skill ranges, it's just the starters have consistency levels that the backups don't have. It's why you regularly see goalies go from having a great season as a starter to being a shitty backup. It's all just a law of averages with most goalies, if they're playing at unsustainable levels for a season, they'll likely come crashing back down in the next season.
I firmly believe you could put any high level goalie (meaning anything from juniors up) in the NHL and they can get a shutout in a NHL game. It's just like when Alexander Pechurskiy came into a game for the Penguins in 2009-2010 when he was an okay WHL goalie and stopped 12 of 13 shots. With that being said, if you want a goalie who will be giving you a .925 save% every single game, your pretty much only option is to internally develop them. Maybe you can get one by paying them over $10 million in free agency, but it will almost definitely need to come from internal development.
The TLDR of this is that DeSmith isn't a problem as a backup, his issue is that his inconsistencies are getting exposed because he's playing too much due to Jarry's issues. Any other backup goalie you could get instead would have the same inconsistency issues. They could totally be performing better than DeSmith, but that good performance is also going to come with an inevitable shitty performance.
You may think I have really dumb takes on skaters, coaches, GMs and whatnot, but I'm 100% confident in my goalie takes. I played goalie my entire life and understand what goes into the position. You can't apply skater standards of "if a player is playing bad, it means he's not good" standard with goalies.
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Pens x
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Again, I’m pretty sure you could have a nice back up for DeSmith + Kapanen’s cap hits
You act like he went from playing 5 games to playing 75 games. He played in 36 games in 2019, but didn’t play like total ass. We have a starter that simply isn’t durable and still hasn’t proven he can perform in the playoffs - CDS can’t be the only other option, especially after pooing all over himself this season. Hextall went with the lazy approach by keeping everything identical in net - he lost that bet. Fix it.
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OK if I camp on your property? I'm pretty clean.I always miss the point. That’s what years of alcohol and drug abuse does
Signing the lease for Joshua Tree on the 28th btw.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Tender Rip
Wears long pants
I buy a lot of that.
Incidentally the conclusions for me were always:
1: Don't spend major bucks on goaltending unless you are absolutely certain that you have an elite starter and even then try not to make contracts very long.
2: Keep many goalies in the system - you never know how they will develop and/or when the guy you thought was going to be good will totally tank.
3: Having a goalie who is huge is preferable, as at least if he isn't good, law of averages suggest he is more likely to be lucky (having pucks hit him).
I will try to talk @AlphaMikeFoxtrots into a desert roadtrip. Snowball's chance in hell, they're smarter than that, but JTNP IS a photographer's dream. Next time I'm bringing more than my iPhone.
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