Salary Cap: Pens trade talk Episode XXIV: Sleepy where are you?!?

[Flying Dego]

How does he not see that this line has largely been ineffective for three straight playoffs? Why will it suddenly play well in these upcoming playoffs? Because no neck Trotz won’t be there?

Please come back to us pre 2017 Sully.

Again, if you are going to refuse to adjust line one, sleepy has to find Geno a winger. But that will be tricky when he seems to refuse to trade prospects or draft picks, which is pretty comical since this team doesn’t give our young guys any opportunity to play.

You come off strong with your pessimism lol but there's areas your definitely right about. Sullivan needs to coach up the lineup 5v5 if this is our roster to make a top 9.

If he refuses to split GCR and Malkin has no change in linemates or some miracle chemistry created over the back half. Then we get to go home early and many will want to blame secondary issues (goalie, defense, etc).

I assume Hextall shuffles depth pieces. If he gets a mid tier wing that can help Geno I'd be suprised but happy.

 

[SomeDude]

First in the division. Trade and fire everyone. This clearly isn't working.

 

[Pens x]

You come off strong with your pessimism lol but there's areas your definitely right about. Sullivan needs to coach up the lineup 5v5 if this is our roster to make a top 9.

If he refuses to split GCR and Malkin has no change in linemates or some miracle chemistry created over the back half. Then we get to go home early and many will want to blame secondary issues (goalie, defense, etc).

I assume Hextall shuffles depth pieces. If he gets a mid tier wing that can help Geno I'd be suprised but happy.

But that’s sad that you would be surprised if our GM makes a move. (I would be surprised too)

 

[Ugene Magic]

MacKinnon has played less games than Crosby.
Barkov has played less games than Crosby.
Carolina has largely been healthy.

Not sure, I buy that excuse.

The difference between "the contenders" in the league and us is that Crosby and Malkin are not 5v5 monsters like the other elite talent on Florida and Colorado. Carolina's talent is comparable to ours.

Florida and Colorado have the best top sixes in hockey and they are largely driven by two players in Huberdeau / Barkov and Kadri / MacKinnon.

The issue with our top six right now is Sullivan assumes our line 1 is driven by Crosby where as to me when I watch the games Guentzel and Rust are the ones doing the scoring. It's why it is so infuriating that a coach that preaches depth won't split them up.

And the depth scoring hasn't really "dried up" so much as in it has been had two of its main catalysts injured in Zucker and Blueger. Losing Zucker forces us to remove a player from the bottom six.

Crosby didn't play until (missed 7 games)Oct. 30th (1 game) and missed another 5 (1 in first 13) and Geno didn't play until Jan. 11.

Those right there has two stars out for significant time. 5 weeks to start off.

Carter was out 2 games before him and Crosby came back for that Oct. 30th game making it 2 games without your top 3 centers in the first 7 games. After that game Crosby missed those other 5. Crosby didn't come back until the Caps game on the 14th of Nov. and has been in every game since. Carter missed another 3 games at the beginning of Jan. (5 to that point and 1 more along the way) and just about 2 months later Geno returns after Sid was back permanently.

Who got to play a ton of 2c?

E-Rod, and he actually dropped off the map when Carter got back on Jan. 8 but E-Rod missed that game and came back the next game and never recovered his form from there. Crosby's RW for some games, 3c for some games, bouncing about a bit. Rust missed significant time as well.

Point is, guys got to place up the roster for a decent chunk of the first part of the season. When you lost Zucker/TB Geno was pretty much back.

 

[Flying Dego]

First in the division. Trade and fire everyone. This clearly isn't working.

GCR + Vezina Jarry definitely works in the regular season.

GCR being our only threat 5v5 come playoff time is an issue. It's a notable concern if we want to compete for one last cup run.

I think it's reasonable for people to want to get Geno's line running effectively whether it's through shuffling our top 6 strength or acquiring a good wing. The latter seeming less likely by comments made by the GM.

 

[Empoleon8771]

FWIW Bourque is on NHL Network right now:

-His impression is that Rust takes a bit less than he can get on the open market and stays in Pittsburgh. He mentions Rust loves Pittsburgh and its fairly close to his parents (his family is from Detroit). He also mentioned Crosby took less and the Guentzel contract limits what he'd realistically get from the Penguins.
-Malkin is willing to take less to stay, it's just a question of how much less
-Bourque is concerned with Letang, mentioning he's French Canadian and his agent was just made the Habs GM.

Also the hosts on NHL Network are insanely complementary of Matheson, which is nice to see. It's not just Penguins fans seeing it, national media people are also seeing Matheson having a phenomenal season.

 

[Flying Dego]

But that’s sad that you would be surprised if our GM makes a move. (I would be surprised too)

I've really not had much issue at all with Hextalls moves. I'll wait and see his deadline to see what he actually follows through with doing. He's certainly no JR so the range of wild excitement and terror is removed.

-McGinn, ERod, Heinen- have all provided great quality for cost.
-Lafferty trade was delightful
-Simon is my biggest annoyance. And I can partially blame Sully for this cause I am sure he was pounding the table on day 1 of free agency to get him signed up.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hextall's "worst" move for the Penguins was trading McCann for a bit below market value because of the expansion draft. His value was a 2nd and a 2nd round caliber prospect, and they only got a 2nd round caliber prospect for him.

If that's the worst move your GM has made, your GM isn't making bad moves.

 

[Flying Dego]

FWIW Bourque is on NHL Network right now:

-His impression is that Rust takes a bit less than he can get on the open market and stays in Pittsburgh. He mentions Rust loves Pittsburgh and its fairly close to his parents (his family is from Detroit). He also mentioned Crosby took less and the Guentzel contract limits what he'd realistically get from the Penguins.
-Malkin is willing to take less to stay, it's just a question of how much less
-Bourque is concerned with Letang, mentioning he's French Canadian and his agent was just made the Habs GM.

Also the hosts on NHL Network are insanely complementary of Matheson, which is nice to see. It's not just Penguins fans seeing it, national media people are also seeing Matheson having a phenomenal season.

Maybe Rust takes a similar to Guentzel contract of 6M for 6 years or something.

I'm really hoping Malkin just takes somewhere between 6-7M and doesn't demand over 8M. Though at the end of the day I pay Geno to retire a Pen but that's just me.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maybe Rust takes a similar to Guentzel contract of 6M for 6 years or something.

I'm really hoping Malkin just takes somewhere between 6-7M and doesn't demand over 8M. Though at the end of the day I pay Geno to retire a Pen but that's just me.

Yeah, this is exactly what I think Rust gets. I think he gets the same deal Guentzel got.

By the way, Bourque just mentioned with extreme confidence that Jagr's jersey will be retired by the Penguins in the next few years.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

No excuse to lose in round 1 every single year.

I don't think of people realize how hard it is to win the cup. Things really need to line correctly and thats not even a guarantee. Weve been a pretty spoiled fan base since the 90s

 

[Flying Dego]

Hextall's "worst" move for the Penguins was trading McCann for a bit below market value because of the expansion draft. His value was a 2nd and a 2nd round caliber prospect, and they only got a 2nd round caliber prospect for him.

If that's the worst move your GM has made, your GM isn't making bad moves.

Him signing Carter so early to a contract before Geno and Letang...was strange. I'm still not sure how I feel either way about that though.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Yeah, this is exactly what I think Rust gets. I think he gets the same deal Guentzel got.

By the way, Bourque just mentioned with extreme confidence that Jagr's jersey will be retired by the Penguins in the next few years.

Jagr deserves it......will be looking forward to it

 

[3ladesof5teel]

First in the division. Trade and fire everyone. This clearly isn't working.

But the other teams have played less games than us

 

[Flying Dego]

I don't think of people realize how hard it is to win the cup. Things really need to line correctly and thats not even a guarantee. Weve been a pretty spoiled fan base since the 90s

No doubt, it's incredibly challenging.

Though running a similar formula that has not produced in recent years doesn't help. We need both top 6 lines scoring 5v5. Maybe it can't happen but running GCR and say Zuck-G-Kap...well I am pretty certain how that ends.

 

[Extra Texture]

Damnit, can Dallas hurry up and fall out of contention already? I feel like Holtby would be the perfect 1B option here to back up Jarry. And to me, it smacks of the Carter move: get a former enemy over here because we believe in his ability to still be a difference maker. And watch that confidence flow back.

It would also probably mean the Caps would pay a kings ransom for MAF, just because their little panties will be in such a twist.

 

[Peat]

-Bourque is concerned with Letang, mentioning he's French Canadian and his agent was just made the Habs GM.

I don't have a bunch of stuff to back this with but I find it really hard to see this as anything other than a bluff to see how much money he can get. I struggle to see Letang's ego wanting to spend his last years in the league losing and getting blamed for it as the big bucks man on the team.

I could very easily be wrong mind.

 

[Pens x]

I've really not had much issue at all with Hextalls moves. I'll wait and see his deadline to see what he actually follows through with doing. He's certainly no JR so the range of wild excitement and terror is removed.

-McGinn, ERod, Heinen- have all provided great quality for cost.
-Lafferty trade was delightful
-Simon is my biggest annoyance. And I can partially blame Sully for this cause I am sure he was pounding the table on day 1 of free agency to get him signed up.

Sleepy’s signings were all playing great at the first part of the season (minus ZAR and Simon), but they’ve all vanished over the last month.

The Lafferty trade was solid; now, he needs to do that with ZAR and Simon. He took out some of the trash, but plenty remains. And I agree that he was likely duped into signing Simon and ZAR by Sully. But they continue to play every night 40+ games into the season - sleepy isn’t guilt free anymore with these two bums, maybe the first 5-10 games.

 

[Ugene Magic]

For those considering potential trades and values, The Athletic's trade talk article says Arizona have been offering around Kessel at 50% for a 3rd with no biters. That there seems to point at a buyer's market even if Calgary went and paid normal value for Toffoli.

Toffoli comes at a decent cap hit with term (2 more years at 4.250) so there's your reason for the normal asking price.

Plus, it's too soon for teams near the cap to get or go after UFA's. Probably waiting on the others like Toffoli to get moved with term.

If the Oilers were smart they'd scoop up Kessel and load up. I'd think that would be an easy decision to displace Ryan/Yamamoto with Kessel. Find a way to make it work.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Damnit, can Dallas hurry up and fall out of contention already? I feel like Holtby would be the perfect 1B option here to back up Jarry. And to me, it smacks of the Carter move: get a former enemy over here because we believe in his ability to still be a difference maker. And watch that confidence flow back.

It would also probably mean the Caps would pay a kings ransom for MAF, just because their little panties will be in such a twist.

There's alot of teams looking for goaltending, I do want a backup and its a need but I dont believe he will come cheap in this market

 

[Peat]

Not sure this team would be willing to pay the price to make this happen, but Copp at 50% would more or less fit into the cap space vacated by trading ZAR...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You come off strong with your pessimism lol but there's areas your definitely right about. Sullivan needs to coach up the lineup 5v5 if this is our roster to make a top 9.

If he refuses to split GCR and Malkin has no change in linemates or some miracle chemistry created over the back half. Then we get to go home early and many will want to blame secondary issues (goalie, defense, etc).

I assume Hextall shuffles depth pieces. If he gets a mid tier wing that can help Geno I'd be suprised but happy.

Malkin will need more than a mid-tier wing. He's got that in Kapanen.

We need one of the big impending UFA fish.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Damnit, can Dallas hurry up and fall out of contention already? I feel like Holtby would be the perfect 1B option here to back up Jarry. And to me, it smacks of the Carter move: get a former enemy over here because we believe in his ability to still be a difference maker. And watch that confidence flow back.

It would also probably mean the Caps would pay a kings ransom for MAF, just because their little panties will be in such a twist.

If Dallas falls out, we need to throw everything into Pavs.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Guys on XM seem to think our only goalie help will come from someone who is very cheap. They mentioned Ottawas other goalie as an example.

I’d love another defenseman, but we’ll see. They also had Calgarys GM on and he said he learned from Burke that you need to avoid the deadline and get trades done early.

We’ll see if that philosophy holds true. I loved the Carter move last year and it was a deadline deal. We just don't have much room. I’ll be disappointed if we don’t do anything, but I’m not sure what can get done.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I don't have a bunch of stuff to back this with but I find it really hard to see this as anything other than a bluff to see how much money he can get. I struggle to see Letang's ego wanting to spend his last years in the league losing and getting blamed for it as the big bucks man on the team.

I could very easily be wrong mind.

The only way I see it is if it’s to complete some dream he’s always had of playing there. That’s if it even is a dream of his.