Confirmed with Link: Pens trade 1st (No. 31) + Oskar Sundqvist for Ryan Reaves and Blues 2nd (No. 51)|Pt.2

[Giskard]

Hell no. About who we should of picked, do the Pens really need a goon, how good Reaves actually is... yadda yadda yadda...

It's just surprising to see how bent out of shape people are about getting a good fourth line role player, trading down a few picks, and shipping out a worthless prospect.

Yep, we know that when GMJR wants somebody he is going to get him, and we're not gonna win on the "price" of the trade. And I'm fine with it.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Reaves is definitely a better player than Wilson and less slimy, there's no doubt about that.

Don't care, still hate it. This feels like pandering to Sid to make up for losing Fleury. If this is the Sid tax, then...sigh, whatever. The price paid for a mediocre 4th liner who brings a dimension I hate is unacceptable.

I'm not thrilled with the price, but I really don't think it's huge. I haven't been impressed with Sundqvist in a while for one. And I don't know anybody in the draft, so I'm sure I value the later picks less than most

I don't think this has much of anything to do with pandering to Sid. I'm sure a little, but if it helps even a little, I'm okay with it. I don't expect it to do much in the regard, but it could do some. Will it stop Tom Wilson or Dion Pheneuf from being clowns? No, I don't think so. Will it stop Matt Niskanen? It just might. I'm not really using the protection part as why I am okay with adding him. But it certainly doesn't hurt us imo, because I don't expect him to be out there stirring **** up. If he is, then my opinion will be way different.

As for what he brings, I will love it when it comes during the actual play. He's going to bring what Rowney did vs Ottawa only better in pretty much every way. The fact that he can skate is huge. He won't be Glass hitting guys 3 seconds late. He will be legitimately disrupting things. He can cycle the puck. He can play defense and actually end his shifts in the O zone. He can legitimately play hockey. Though it certainly doesn't seem like he can score. All in all, I think he's more than a mediocre 4th liner.

Also I get a little chuckle about how quickly this place went from high on Sundqvist to being completely okay to using him as a throw-in in a deal where even if it was just trading down 20 spots the value would be trash. Don't see him in the future plans? Get a late 2nd rounder for him, don't just give him away.

Eh, the guy has stagnated from what I have seen in the NHL. I don't see why it's weird for people's opinions to change when the situation changes. He hasn't really gotten better, and our team has moved to a style of play that stresses things that happen to be his bigger weaknesses.

 

[Pens17]

I cannot believe all the "sky is falling" posts because of Oscar Sundquist.

Oscar Sundquist? Seriously? Oscar?

Come on people. Stop validating other fans complaints about how "whiny" the Pens fans are.

Until proven otherwise, Sundqvist is in a parallel universe with Luca Caputi and Eric Tangradi. In retrospect, this statement likely marginalizes Tangradi's skill set.

Lastly as Bombulie stated, this year's final 1st round draft pick was last year's 1st second round pick.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

If you think about it, this used to be a 6 team league so the Pens only gave up a 6th for a 4th liner. That's actually pretty good asset management!

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I know Reaves didn't kill penalties really in St. Louis, but he is a decent skater for his size and could be strong in puck battles. Is it a possibility they would try him on the PK here? Honest question and not really sure what the answer is.

Hard to kill penalties when you're in the box.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm not thrilled with the price, but I really don't think it's huge. I haven't been impressed with Sundqvist in a while for one. And I don't know anybody in the draft, so I'm sure I value the later picks less than most

I don't think this has much of anything to do with pandering to Sid. I'm sure a little, but if it helps even a little, I'm okay with it. I don't expect it to do much in the regard, but it could do some. Will it stop Tom Wilson or Dion Pheneuf from being clowns? No, I don't think so. Will it stop Matt Niskanen? It just might. I'm not really using the protection part as why I am okay with adding him. But it certainly doesn't hurt us imo, because I don't expect him to be out there stirring **** up. If he is, then my opinion will be way different.

As for what he brings, I will love it when it comes during the actual play. He's going to bring what Rowney did vs Ottawa only better in pretty much every way. The fact that he can skate is huge. He won't be Glass hitting guys 3 seconds late. He will be legitimately disrupting things. He can cycle the puck. He can play defense and actually end his shifts in the O zone. He can legitimately play hockey. Though it certainly doesn't seem like he can score.

Yeah, regardless of how you think about Reaves, the fact of the matter is he brings things to the 4th line that we were lacking this year and last year. We won in spite of that 4th line often, not because of it.

Whatevs. I eagerly await people revisiting their mistaken predictions in the spirit of honest self-criticism that this board is known for.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I certainly don't mind Reaves, but I hate that the Pens gave up on Sundqvist.

And it's nice to see that Jiggyfly is okay with it.

Reaves is a hell of a fourth liner that fits this system. I couldn't be more stoked. I mean, I'll miss watching Kuhn fall all over the ice every shift and look mostly useless, but somehow I'll get over it.

Reaves is definitely a better player than Wilson and less slimy, there's no doubt about that.

Don't care, still hate it. This feels like pandering to Sid to make up for losing Fleury. If this is the Sid tax, then...sigh, whatever. It shouldn't have cost half as much to get a mediocre fourth liner, though.

Game isn't changing Big, especially during the remains yrs left of Crosby and Malkin's career. The dimwit commissioner publically blew off Jr's concerns about protecting stars as pandering to the refs. If that doesn't wake people up to the old boys network running the league...

I hate goons, have been very vocal about it for years. I had them chasing me around rinks doing their goony things since I was little, and even broke a goon's arm once because I had enough...

However, RR isn't a goon. He's a legit hard nosed guy that can skate and doesn't go looking for cheap shots ala Wilson. That's one of the other reasons I really respect and loved watching him play.

You guys have the wrong impression of him, simply because he can beat the **** out of anyone he feels like.

 

[tom_servo]

This is actually brilliant. Get the league to value smaller skilled guys and then turn around and **** em up.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Hard to kill penalties when you're in the box.

but he's not actually in the box during the PK all that much. 34 PIM from minors last season. That ties him with Schultz for 4th on our team. 1 more penalty than Letang or Daley. 1 less than Kunitz. 18 less than Geno and 12 less than Cole. The year before that he took 9 minors in 64 games. 188 of his career 695 PIMs come from minor penalties.

 

[Peat]

It's not about that (for me anyway) it's about what else we could have got for those assets. Not long ago that brought back a top 6 forward in Perron for us. Now it's a 4th liner and pick 51.

He didn't work out in the end but when we got him he was a very good player (and it turned into Hagelin eventually)

30th (I forget whether they knew it would be 30th at time of trade) got Andersen on trade and sign. I think he's more valuable than Reaves and 51st, nevermind with Sundqvist on top.

I know the assets weren't worth much to us but they might have been to someone else. Market value, Reaves ain't a great return. But hey ho.

 

[Jacob]

This is actually brilliant. Get the league to value smaller skilled guys and then turn around and **** em up.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

This is actually brilliant. Get the league to value smaller skilled guys and then turn around and **** em up.

 

[Ogrezilla]

30th (I forget whether they knew it would be 30th at time of trade) got Andersen on trade and sign. I think he's more valuable than Reaves and 51st, nevermind with Sundqvist on top.

I know the assets weren't worth much to us but they might have been to someone else. Market value, Reaves ain't a great return. But hey ho.

JR has definitely shown that he'll overpay for what he wants. I agree that this was a bit more costly than it needed to be. So was Hornqvist. Hell, so was Lovejoy. But those have both worked out. So while I don't love the value, I like the guy we got.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

but he's not actually in the box during the PK all that much. 34 PIM from minors last season. That ties him with Schultz for 4th on our team. 1 more penalty than Letang or Daley. 1 less than Kunitz. 18 less than Geno and 12 less than Cole. The year before that he took 9 minors in 64 games. 188 of his career 695 PIMs come from minor penalties.

While that's nice, it does need noted that he did that in half as much ice time as any of those names.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Reaves is a hell of a fourth liner that fits this system. I couldn't be more stoked. I mean, I'll miss watching Kuhn fall all over the ice every shift and look mostly useless, but somehow I'll get over it.



Game isn't changing Big, especially during the remains yrs left of Crosby and Malkin's career. The dimwit commissioner publically blew off Jr's concerns about protecting stars as pandering to the refs. If that doesn't wake people up to the old boys network running the league...

I hate goons, have been very vocal about it for years. I had them chasing me around rinks doing their goony things since I was little, and even broke a goon's arm once because I had enough...

However, RR isn't a goon. He's a legit hard nosed guy that can skate and doesn't go looking for cheap shots ala Wilson. That's one of the other reasons I really respect and loved watching him play.

You guys have the wrong impression of him, simply because he can beat the **** out of anyone he feels like.

I think a lot of people just know about Reaves because of his reputation as a fighter and not from his actual on-ice play. I also think a lot of people are going to be pleasantly surprised with how well he skates too and he'll probably fit in a lot better in Sullivan's system than people think.

Feel free to remind me about this if I'm wrong.

 

[Pens1566]

So, the argument is that Reaves will be a deterrent to physical shenanigans against our stars. We've had guys in that role before (Rupp, Asham, Engo, Laraque, etc.) and it didn't stop the abuse. Yeah, he's not a true goon. So that's a plus. He can skate, forecheck, all good things. He still plays 8-9 minutes a night. And not in a position (wing) of need.

We gave up valuable assets to acquire a 4th liner. You can argue how valuable, but they weren't throwaways. Sure, Oscar hasn't set the world on fire in his limited NHL time. But wasn't he played mostly on the wing here? And he's young and likely still not a finished product. A 31st overall is more like a 2nd rounder. Ok. It's still of use either in selecting someone or dealing as part of another trade to fill legit holes on the roster (C,D).

Bad value, bad asset management, likely little impact.

 

[Ogrezilla]

While that's nice, it does need noted that he did that in half as much ice time as any of those names.

that's fair. Still, the ratio of Pims and minors is better than you typically see for guys with 100+ PIM.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

So, the argument is that Reaves will be a deterrent to physical shenanigans against our stars. We've had guys in that role before (Rupp, Asham, Engo, Laraque, etc.) and it didn't stop the abuse. Yeah, he's not a true goon. So that's a plus. He can skate, forecheck, all good things. He still plays 8-9 minutes a night. And not in a position (wing) of need.

We gave up valuable assets to acquire a 4th liner. You can argue how valuable, but they weren't throwaways. Sure, Oscar hasn't set the world on fire in his limited NHL time. But wasn't he played mostly on the wing here? And he's young and likely still not a finished product. A 31st overall is more like a 2nd rounder. Ok. It's still of use either in selecting someone or dealing as part of another trade to fill legit holes on the roster (C,D).

Bad value, bad asset management, likely little impact.

Sundqvist might be a solid 4th liner some day. Reaves is a proven solid 4th liner.

The Pens dropped 20 picks in the draft to trade a maybe for a sure thing. Trades like this happen all the time.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think a lot of people just know about Reaves because of his reputation as a fighter and not from his actual on-ice play. I also think a lot of people are going to be pleasantly surprised with how well he skates too and he'll probably fit in a lot better in Sullivan's system than people think.

Feel free to remind me about this if I'm wrong.

People like to bring the drama I guess.

This team is built on playing with pace, tenacity and responsible play and that is exactly what RR does.

Yet, because he hits like a mac truck and throws like Kimbo Slice used to, this makes him... not good?

Pens are still allowed to be physical aren't they?

 

[Ogrezilla]

So, the argument is that Reaves will be a deterrent to physical shenanigans against our stars. We've had guys in that role before (Rupp, Asham, Engo, Laraque, etc.) and it didn't stop the abuse. Yeah, he's not a true goon. So that's a plus. He can skate, forecheck, all good things. He still plays 8-9 minutes a night. And not in a position (wing) of need.

We gave up valuable assets to acquire a 4th liner. You can argue how valuable, but they weren't throwaways. Sure, Oscar hasn't set the world on fire in his limited NHL time. But wasn't he played mostly on the wing here? And he's young and likely still not a finished product. A 31st overall is more like a 2nd rounder. Ok. It's still of use either in selecting someone or dealing as part of another trade to fill legit holes on the roster (C,D).

Bad value, bad asset management, likely little impact.

for what it's worth, we just took a guy expected to be a 5th rounder with the pick. With that level of reach, it seems like we may have just taken him at 31 anyway, right?

 

[Peat]

JR has definitely shown that he'll overpay for what he wants. I agree that this was a bit more costly than it needed to be. So was Hornqvist. Hell, so was Lovejoy. But those have both worked out. So while I don't love the value, I like the guy we got.

That's where I am too.

 

[Pens1566]

for what it's worth, we just took a guy expected to be a 5th rounder with the pick. With that level of reach, it seems like we may have just taken him at 31 anyway, right?

Yeah, that pick isn't exactly helping the trade look better.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah, that pick isn't exactly helping the trade look better.

I don't think it makes it any worse either.

 

[Peat]

I don't think it makes it any worse either.

I'd go with better, if that's what they have in mind then trade down, trade everything down

 

[SaturdayNightSlegr]

We traded our 5th center for one of the best physical 4th line wingers in the league. The pick exchange was a minor sweetener to get the deal done, since Reaves is an established NHLer and OS isnt. Whats the problem?

OS is not some elite prospect. He was passed up by Rowney this year and did not play in the playoffs. The org did not think OS could replace Cullen. The 4th C will either be Rowney or some UFA.