Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[66-30-33]

It’s super early of course, but I honestly don’t see a top-6 spot for someone like Marchment. Zucker looks completely revitalized after he became healthy and I don’t think you need another top-6 guy if Zucker gets back to where he once was.

I don’t think this team needs any forwards. They seem to be overflowing with quality NHL guys and need to move out guys before taking about adding guys.

To expand on that, I think you can legitimately argue this team really doesn’t need anything right now. There doesn’t seem to be any glaring flaws with the current team, the worst case scenario with a lot of these positions are something like “you want better but they’re not killing you”. Look at POJ on the 3rd pair, I’ve been super critical of him but he’s realistically not going to sink this team if he’s playing. The most questionable spots are things like Zucker on L2, Archibald on L4 and POJ on the 3rd pair. It’s not some disastrous situation.

I wanna see more of Smith-Rutta soon. I only saw 1 game of preseason hockey but I liked that pair.

 

[Gurglesons]

It’s super early of course, but I honestly don’t see a top-6 spot for someone like Marchment. Zucker looks completely revitalized after he became healthy and I don’t think you need another top-6 guy if Zucker gets back to where he once was.

I don’t think this team needs any forwards. They seem to be overflowing with quality NHL guys and need to move out guys before taking about adding guys.

To expand on that, I think you can legitimately argue this team really doesn’t need anything right now. There doesn’t seem to be any glaring flaws with the current team, the worst case scenario with a lot of these positions are something like “you want better but they’re not killing you”. Look at POJ on the 3rd pair, I’ve been super critical of him but he’s realistically not going to sink this team if he’s playing. The most questionable spots are things like Zucker on L2, Archibald on L4 and POJ on the 3rd pair. It’s not some disastrous situation.

I think the idea behind acquiring a Marchment or Neidereiter would be to drop Zucker down to L3.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Blueger gone and Kappy not qualified?

GCR
Marchment-Malkin-Rust
Zucker-Carter-Heinen

Fine, I'll spill.
I woulda accepted Philly's offer for Zuck (1st to PHI) and let Kapanen go.
That'd clear 8.7 mil. Then Marchment 4 x 4.5 just like Dallas did, and use the remaining 4.2 on Niederreiter or another good value to cap Forward that fits with Carter better. Or maybe a 3 mil Forward, allowing us to have a little leftover to reach a 23-man roster.
I think this would give us the best chance to win in our remaining window.

We looked at the stats in the summer. I'm less and less enamoured with keeping late 1sts. 50% of the time they don't reach 200 games. And of the 50% who do, how many become impact players which justify the investment?
The odds are just shit. I'd rather roll the dice and deal it, with our remaining year or 2 of possible contention.

I'd like to keep Blue for this year as an injury failsafe down the middle, and to boost the 4th line. I don't agree at all with some here that Poehling's a worthy replacement for him.

I mean I hope I end up with egg on my face for saying this, with Zuck and Kap having great seasons. I would just trust Marchment and Niederreiter to outplay them is all.

Marchment had elite defensive analytics last year. Even when not scoring he'd help L2 a ton with zone time and high danger chances, like Rakell does for L1. Niederreiter is just a straight up better player than Kap.

 

[Pens x]

Yeah, I don’t know how you refuse to trade a first round draft pick when you truly feel the team is a move or two away from competing. I feel like the team owes it to the big 3 to go all in.

Plus, our coach hates young guys.

 

[Factorial]

It’s super early of course, but I honestly don’t see a top-6 spot for someone like Marchment. Zucker looks completely revitalized after he became healthy and I don’t think you need another top-6 guy if Zucker gets back to where he once was.

I don’t think this team needs any forwards. They seem to be overflowing with quality NHL guys and need to move out guys before taking about adding guys.

To expand on that, I think you can legitimately argue this team really doesn’t need anything right now. There doesn’t seem to be any glaring flaws with the current team, the worst case scenario with a lot of these positions are something like “you want better but they’re not killing you”. Look at POJ on the 3rd pair, I’ve been super critical of him but he’s realistically not going to sink this team if he’s playing. The most questionable spots are things like Zucker on L2, Archibald on L4 and POJ on the 3rd pair. It’s not some disastrous situation.

Wait until the first loss.

 

[pistolpete11]

Marchment would have cost closer to $5M/year to match Dallas's offer given the state income taxes, but even that would have been worth it. Big, physical, defensively responsible, and, at least in 1 year, showed some impressive offensive production. What's not to like? Injuries? Big whoop. This team eats injuries for breakfast.

I'd have preferred the not signing Kap+trading Blueger method to fit him under the cap, but would have been content with Zucker+1st, too. I'm a big Blueger fan, but 4C is just not that critical of a position and he's likely gone after this year anyway. I especially don't care about 4C with how stacked this top 9 would have been:

Gunetzel - Crosby - Rakell
Marchment - Malkin - Rust
Zucker - Carter - Heinen

I'm not sure if I'm sold on Poehling as 4C yet, but it's not that hard to find a replacement and they'd still have had that 1st in their pocket to upgrade LD.

 

[Flying Dego]

It’s super early of course, but I honestly don’t see a top-6 spot for someone like Marchment. Zucker looks completely revitalized after he became healthy and I don’t think you need another top-6 guy if Zucker gets back to where he once was.

I don’t think this team needs any forwards. They seem to be overflowing with quality NHL guys and need to move out guys before taking about adding guys.

To expand on that, I think you can legitimately argue this team really doesn’t need anything right now. There doesn’t seem to be any glaring flaws with the current team, the worst case scenario with a lot of these positions are something like “you want better but they’re not killing you”. Look at POJ on the 3rd pair, I’ve been super critical of him but he’s realistically not going to sink this team if he’s playing. The most questionable spots are things like Zucker on L2, Archibald on L4 and POJ on the 3rd pair. It’s not some disastrous situation.

I think our forwards are top tier in terms of depth, our RD is top tier, our goaltending is above average.

We have 1 glaring weakness. The LD. Dumo and Petts are the pieces that can hamper us IMO. I think Smith will come in and hold down the 3LD no problem.

 

[dogthateats]

 

[Peat]

Marchement and Niederreiter are both the sort of guys I'd have liked - big, defensively strong, some offensive stuff - but I don't think we could have got them here at good prices. Beyond the tax differences, Niederreiter went to an org captained by his best friend and Marchement went to a place where he knew the head coach well and has known the forwards coach since he was a kid. Those aren't circs where you expect to get the guy just by showing up with an equal offer.

I also loathe @AuroraBorealis idea of paying a 1st to get out of Zucker. Not because I think we should hold onto the pick and the player picked with it all the way until they're a Penguin - although I think people discount the importance of these picks because while individually they're rarely much, if you pass up a whole ton of them you start noticing problems - but because it (or the prospect in a year or two) is maybe our best trade chip. Spending it on getting rid of a guy who could cost a whole lot less to move in a couple of months, or maybe doesn't need getting rid of at all, seems reckless when we could easily get halfway through the season and find an urgent need to make a trade elsewhere. Or find far better value in the summer.

I guess Marchement for 4.5m is going to look great value, but that alone could have been accomplished in other ways.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the idea behind acquiring a Marchment or Neidereiter would be to drop Zucker down to L3.

Which is just something I don't view as necessary.

If they're making a move like that, I'd want to get someone who's a notable improvement on Zucker. I don't think either of those guys are that. Even without acknowledging that Zucker looks completely revitalized this year, I don't really see the upgrade there as worth pursuing. Not only that, but you couldn't make the cap work for those guys with just moving Kapanen, either.

 

[Gurglesons]

Which is just something I don't view as necessary.

If they're making a move like that, I'd want to get someone who's a notable improvement on Zucker. I don't think either of those guys are that. Even without acknowledging that Zucker looks completely revitalized this year, I don't really see the upgrade there as worth pursuing. Not only that, but you couldn't make the cap work for those guys with just moving Kapanen, either.

I believe that improvement over Zucker would be their physical game and size.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Marchment would have cost closer to $5M/year to match Dallas's offer given the state income taxes, but even that would have been worth it. Big, physical, defensively responsible, and, at least in 1 year, showed some impressive offensive production. What's not to like? Injuries? Big whoop. This team eats injuries for breakfast.

I'd have preferred the not signing Kap+trading Blueger method to fit him under the cap, but would have been content with Zucker+1st, too. I'm a big Blueger fan, but 4C is just not that critical of a position and he's likely gone after this year anyway. I especially don't care about 4C with how stacked this top 9 would have been:

Gunetzel - Crosby - Rakell
Marchment - Malkin - Rust
Zucker - Carter - Heinen

I'm not sure if I'm sold on Poehling as 4C yet, but it's not that hard to find a replacement and they'd still have had that 1st in their pocket to upgrade LD.

We're enjoying good health right now but it won't last. Blueger will probably need to serve as 3C for a good chunk of games. That's why I'd keep him. Carter already got hurt in pre-season.

We don't know what players would accept to play here @Peat. Pittsburgh has better Cup chances than Nashville and Dallas. That means something to players.

This "wait for summer" thing doesn't make any sense to me with how tiny our window is. If Crosby was 25 then sure, but he's not. We need every edge this year to have a hope in hell against Colorado or another emerging top team.

At the deadline your competitors increase for the best trade chips, and the prices peak.

Zucker does look good right now for sure. It's a pretty risky horse to bet on with his injury history and play on L2 here though.
I am pretty skeptical at this point about this form's longevity.
But yeah if he keeps this up then there's no problem.

 

[Peat]

We don't know what players would accept to play here @Peat. Pittsburgh has better Cup chances than Nashville and Dallas. That means something to players.

We don't know. But we do know what motivates them to take offers from places, and big personal connections like that are often hard to trump without a lot more money.

We don't know that players agree we have substantially better cup chances than Nashville and Dallas either.

This "wait for summer" thing doesn't make any sense to me with how tiny our window is. If Crosby was 25 then sure, but he's not. We need every edge this year to have a hope in hell against Colorado or another emerging top team.

At the deadline your competitors increase for the best trade chips, and the prices peak.

My philosophy is smart teams don't spend large proportions of their assets on moves that don't change their tier as a contender. We're a tier 2 contender now and we'd be a tier 2 contender with Marchment over Zucker so it's not worth it to me. I'd keep hogging the assets and look for small spends, development projects, while waiting for some real difference makers to drop.

I accept that at this point of the window my philosophy is a bit day late and dollar short. but it's still where I am. I think it gives you better overall odds, even at this point.

Zucker does look good right now for sure. It's a pretty risky horse to bet on with his injury history and play on L2 here though.
I am pretty skeptical at this point about this form's longevity.
But yeah if he keeps this up then there's no problem.

I mean Marchment just missed 28 RS and 6 PO games himself, I don't know about his history of short seasons prior to this - 54 games is a career high as a pro player in six seasons, with his previous bests being 44 games in AHL/ECHL - but I'm not sure he's any less risky.

As for Zucker's fit with L2... well, we'll see. But it's about picking measuring the risk and picking the mistake you're willing to make, and I'd rather have the 1st and Zucker at the deadline than no 1st and a different player, as that offers the highest upside.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah not sure I buy giving Marchment that contract and likely more as any less or a risk than keeping Zucker. Honestly would argue it was more of a risk.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not exactly a convert after one game but if ZMR can keep things up I guess I'm just not thinking nearly as much about an upgrade to L2 all of the sudden. But I mean... that feels a bit too hopeful for me.

 

[dogthateats]

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's amazing to me that some people still question dude's motivation.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not exactly a convert after one game but if ZMR can keep things up I guess I'm just not thinking nearly as much about an upgrade to L2 all of the sudden. But I mean... that feels a bit too hopeful for me.

I think you still need to add some size and skill in the form of a C/W somewhere between L2-L4.

Hathaway, Nosek, and Wood seem like the potential fits with a quick look at UFAs upcoming.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yea but know Season Ticket Holders see the REAL Malkin and that's what really matters

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think you still need to add some size and skill in the form of a C/W somewhere between L2-L4.

Hathaway, Nosek, and Wood seem like the potential fits with a quick look at UFAs upcoming.

I don't have any specific players in mind but I would love that (with just enough nasty to make the other guy think, if possible) on L2. But I'd settle for it anywhere, yeah. They'd have to open up the vault a little more if it's the kind of guy that can skate on L2 as opposed to like L3 or 4 but I think it'd be worth it.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't have any specific players in mind but I would love that (with just enough nasty to make the other guy think, if possible) on L2. But I'd settle for it anywhere, yeah. They'd have to open up the vault a little more if it's the kind of guy that can skate on L2 as opposed to like L3 or 4 but I think it'd be worth it.

If we look at RFAs, Comtois definitely seems like a fit for the middle six.

Frederic, Bastian or Fischer for L4.

I think the smart thing to do is move out Blueger still and built a fourth line like.. Frederic - Poehling - McGinn that can actually do some damage physically on the forecheck to the opposing Ds.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If we look at RFAs, Comtois definitely seems like a fit for the middle six.

Frederic, Bastian or Fischer for L4.

I think the smart thing to do is move out Blueger still and built a fourth line like.. Frederic - Poehling - McGinn that can actually do some damage physically on the forecheck to the opposing Ds.

Right on. That's what I've been wanting to see more out of on L4 for a while, now. It's no disrespect to Blueger. But a line built around him is going to be more about passive defensive mitigation... for lack of a better term. More of a cerebral defensive line. That's all well and good but I want a more punishing line on this team somewhere in the mix.

 

[dogthateats]

If we look at RFAs, Comtois definitely seems like a fit for the middle six.

Frederic, Bastian or Fischer for L4.

I think the smart thing to do is move out Blueger still and built a fourth line like.. Frederic - Poehling - McGinn that can actually do some damage physically on the forecheck to the opposing Ds.

Brian Boyle, Radim Zohorna

 

[Gurglesons]

Malkin is the third best power forward in the league tho so nevermind lol

 

[Gurglesons]

Brian Boyle, Radim Zohorna

Boyle somewhat fit the role. In his prime he’s perfect. Big Z is exactly what I’d avoid.