GDT: Pens Playoff Push: Hold on to your butts!

[Empoleon8771]

Why?

Because if this team was all about trying to win in the last few years with Crosby, they would have basically forced Dubas to keep Crosby's best and preferred winger.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because if this team was all about trying to win in the last few years with Crosby, they would have basically forced Dubas to keep Crosby's best and preferred winger.

They had to move him with how badly they performed this year. I don’t see the linkage.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Frankly, not a whole lot of logic abounds for any of the roster moves this year, outside of Sullivan dictating most of the moves. People spent a lot of time trying to find silver linings in them or theorycraft some 4d chess gamesmanship, but man, after 81 games there's very little to point to as a success here.

Sure, hurrah, Lars Eller had a slightly better than expected year. But what did that functionally accomplish? We still miss the playoffs by a game.

The Western conference playoffs are going to be great to watch.

Honestly, I'll probably watch the Cup finals and that's it. Maybe the WC next month since it's here.

 

[Pancakes]

This team had Guentzel all year and did jack shit

I don't think him here past the TDL moves the playoff needle at all

I actually think we do worse, because Jake getting traded was what lead to the team eventually snapping out of their funk and going on a run.

I'm not sure that happens if he stays. Maybe they don't have that mini slump post trade deadline where they basically quit, but I don't think they do the 8-1-3 stretch either.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's wild to realize we literally could have spent 4 weeks trying to craft a better power play during the season or any myrriad of minor system tweaks or changes in roster usage and we'd be solidly in the playoffs.

For the second year in a row.

Sure it's great we had an 8-1-3 finish to the season, but maybe if we hadn't dropped so many one-goal games earlier in the year, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, we'd be talking about our postseason matchup.

 

[Ryder71]

I'm not surprised you don't see the issue with this.

The window is closed, if you believe otherwise than you're delusional. Six years no playoff wins and the core is only gettin older. Not sure how much more evidence you'd need but whatever.

 

[66-30-33]

The window is closed, if you believe otherwise than you're delusional. Six years no playoff wins and the core is only gettin older. Not sure how much more evidence you'd need but whatever.

Pretty much this. We just missed the playoffs for 2 years now, the core is 2 years older. Sid will be Sid for a couple more years but it's over. There is no coming back from this, even though they will FORCE things to keep going for as long as Sid/Malkin are here, it's time to start thinking of post Crosby/Malkin life now.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm just glad Jake got dealt and the team doesn't have to decide whether or not to send SJ this pick and gamble on next year's pick being non-lotto protected.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm just glad Jake got dealt and the team doesn't have to decide whether or not to send SJ this pick and gamble on next year's pick being non-lotto protected.

oh yeah, if we had any choice in the matter, this team would absolutely make the wrong one.

Pretty much this. We just missed the playoffs for 2 years now, the core is 2 years older. Sid will be Sid for a couple more years but it's over. There is no coming back from this, even though they will FORCE things to keep going for as long as Sid/Malkin are here, it's time to start thinking of post Crosby/Malkin life now.

The problem is, even if we take this as true, the team does not. So they aren't going to make moves that maximize their transition. You could see it in the package of players we got for Jake. We're going to see more of the same until the core actually forces their hand.

Again, you could lean into the role of a dark horse/spoiler for the next one to two seasons if you make the right moves, it's not like we're solidly in top 5 pick territory yet and we did just miss the postseason by a point. But the team has to commit to that and only way you can really do that is IMO a coaching change. Which, to be honest, you'd also need if you wanted to start a good rebuild anyway.

But nope. The organization still doesn't want to look at the results cleanly and clearly.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Literally, nothing matters this offseason if any coach is back. The team will be back to listless, dog **** play next year if anyone is retained. The vets have spoken and the room is lost with all the coaches. So get rid of them now while you have some more options or wait until you're so embarrassed by the team's play for the 3rd year in a row that you need to make a mid-season change.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pretty much this. We just missed the playoffs for 2 years now, the core is 2 years older. Sid will be Sid for a couple more years but it's over. There is no coming back from this, even though they will FORCE things to keep going for as long as Sid/Malkin are here, it's time to start thinking of post Crosby/Malkin life now.

The issue is Dubas isn’t going this. He leveraged Jake’s value for Bunting.

He will move more pieces to be competitive next year and this idea he won’t is so weird.

oh yeah, if we had any choice in the matter, this team would absolutely make the wrong one.


The problem is, even if we take this as true, the team does not. So they aren't going to make moves that maximize their transition. You could see it in the package of players we got for Jake. We're going to see more of the same until the core actually forces their hand.

Again, you could lean into the role of a dark horse/spoiler for the next one to two seasons if you make the right moves, it's not like we're solidly in top 5 pick territory yet and we did just miss the postseason by a point. But the team has to commit to that and only way you can really do that is IMO a coaching change. Which, to be honest, you'd also need if you wanted to start a good rebuild anyway.

But nope. The organization still doesn't want to look at the results cleanly and clearly.

Exactly. It’s so weird that people think the players in the Jake trade will do anything for the future. They are win now pieces.

 

[Ryder71]

it's time to start thinking of post Crosby/Malkin life now.

I've already done so, and While the Guentzel trade doesn't get us THAT far in that regard, it's a definite step in the right direction. To what degree only time will tell.

 

[66-30-33]

oh yeah, if we had any choice in the matter, this team would absolutely make the wrong one.


The problem is, even if we take this as true, the team does not. So they aren't going to make moves that maximize their transition. You could see it in the package of players we got for Jake. We're going to see more of the same until the core actually forces their hand.

Again, you could lean into the role of a dark horse/spoiler for the next one to two seasons if you make the right moves, it's not like we're solidly in top 5 pick territory yet and we did just miss the postseason by a point. But the team has to commit to that and only way you can really do that is IMO a coaching change. Which, to be honest, you'd also need if you wanted to start a good rebuild anyway.

But nope. The organization still doesn't want to look at the results cleanly and clearly.

We're just going to have to accept being a team that JUST misses from here on out I guess.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm just glad Jake got dealt and the team doesn't have to decide whether or not to send SJ this pick and gamble on next year's pick being non-lotto protected.

Wouldn’t shock me to see them move the 1st again tbh.

 

[MayorofWBS]

I'm just glad Jake got dealt and the team doesn't have to decide whether or not to send SJ this pick and gamble on next year's pick being non-lotto protected.

Still time to trade that 2025 for some magic beans (aka, another blah winger)

 

[Ryder71]

Wouldn’t shock me to see them move the 1st again tbh.

Then you're not playing close enough attention.

 

[Gurglesons]

Then you're not playing close enough attention.

No. You are not.

 

[Ryder71]

No. You are not.

We're not trading our 1st RD picks anymore. We did so because EK was available, that's a one off. It'll take a few years before we're back in the mix, you just need to accept that.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Wouldn’t shock me to see them move the 1st again tbh.

Maybe. I hope not, but we'll see. I've been operating on this team doing the absolute dumbest shit in any given situation since the summer of 2018 tbh.

 

[HandshakeLine]

We're just going to have to accept being a team that JUST misses from here on out I guess.

I mean, the fans don't want it, for sure. But the team (from the executive suite to coaching to the farm leagues) seems to believe that it was only bad luck two years in a row that put them in this situation. Look at Carter's interview the other day-- does that strike you as an interview from a) a vet who knows this is going to be his last shot and b) a vet on a team that has repeatedly squandered its potential? Not really. I don't think the team realizes it needs change, in whatever direction. If it did, changes would have been made much earlier and on a more systematic level.

Yeah, Dubas moved Ruhwedel and Jake. But he didn't shore up the goaltending, improve the power play, cut the deadweight in the bottom 6, reconfigure the blueline to make it work. He also didn't move other valuable parts to get more resources to speed a rebuild. It's clear that the team doesn't see the window as closed, nor does it think there was any real systematic problem for why they didn't make the postseason.

I guess how Dubas plays his cards in the offseason will tell us more, but I'd be lying if I said I had any great hopes for change there. I fully expect to see us re-sign Carter, keep the coaching staff, and maybe shuffle the bottom 6 around a bit more.

It's literally the worst of all possible worlds.

Maybe. I hope not, but we'll see. I've been operating on this team doing the absolute dumbest shit in any given situation since the summer of 2018 tbh.

And if you do, you are so rarely proven wrong, it's depressing.

 

[Gurglesons]

We're not trading our 1st RD picks anymore. We did so because EK was available, that's a one off. It'll take a few years before we're back in the mix, you just need to accept that.

What I feel about the team has no effect on what the directive is from our GM and ownership. They are not rebuilding.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean, the fans don't want it, for sure. But the team (from the executive suite to coaching to the farm leagues) seems to believe that it was only bad luck two years in a row that put them in this situation. Look at Carter's interview the other day-- does that strike you as an interview from a) a vet who knows this is going to be his last shot and b) a vet on a team that has repeatedly squandered its potential? Not really. I don't think the team realizes it needs change, in whatever direction. If it did, changes would have been made much earlier and on a more systematic level.

Yeah, Dubas moved Ruhwedel and Jake. But he didn't shore up the goaltending, improve the power play, cut the deadweight in the bottom 6, reconfigure the blueline to make it work. He also didn't move other valuable parts to get more resources to speed a rebuild. It's clear that the team doesn't see the window as closed, nor does it think there was any real systematic problem for why they didn't make the postseason.

I guess how Dubas plays his cards in the offseason will tell us more, but I'd be lying if I said I had any great hopes for change there. I fully expect to see us re-sign Carter, keep the coaching staff, and maybe shuffle the bottom 6 around a bit more.

It's literally the worst of all possible worlds.


And if you do, you are so rarely proven wrong, it's depressing.

 

[Pancakes]

It's wild to realize we literally could have spent 4 weeks trying to craft a better power play during the season or any myrriad of minor system tweaks or changes in roster usage and we'd be solidly in the playoffs.

For the second year in a row.

Sure it's great we had an 8-1-3 finish to the season, but maybe if we hadn't dropped so many one-goal games earlier in the year, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, we'd be talking about our postseason matchup.

And yet even during this 8-1-3 stretch the same issues that plagued us all season were present in the majority of the games. The PP still sucked. We still blew leads. Our goaltending was still mid.

The same issues that caused us to have a shit record for most of the season also sunk us even during that last stretch of play.

 

[66-30-33]

I mean, the fans don't want it, for sure. But the team (from the executive suite to coaching to the farm leagues) seems to believe that it was only bad luck two years in a row that put them in this situation. Look at Carter's interview the other day-- does that strike you as an interview from a) a vet who knows this is going to be his last shot and b) a vet on a team that has repeatedly squandered its potential? Not really. I don't think the team realizes it needs change, in whatever direction. If it did, changes would have been made much earlier and on a more systematic level.

Yeah, Dubas moved Ruhwedel and Jake. But he didn't shore up the goaltending, improve the power play, cut the deadweight in the bottom 6, reconfigure the blueline to make it work. He also didn't move other valuable parts to get more resources to speed a rebuild. It's clear that the team doesn't see the window as closed, nor does it think there was any real systematic problem for why they didn't make the postseason.

I guess how Dubas plays his cards in the offseason will tell us more, but I'd be lying if I said I had any great hopes for change there. I fully expect to see us re-sign Carter, keep the coaching staff, and maybe shuffle the bottom 6 around a bit more.

It's literally the worst of all possible worlds.


And if you do, you are so rarely proven wrong, it's depressing.

It's going to be a long 3-4 years before Crosby retires. I also don't watch interviews so I missed that Carter one. I would just yell at my monitor anytime they would open their mouthes.

 

[Jobeycool]

Pens messed up.... all that play off push was worthless... it is better to just fail miserably and get higher draft picks. Trade Rust contract is bad, trade Erik Karlsson the experiment was fun but failed, trade Pettersson because of lousy contract, might as well trade Rakell. See if they keep Sullivan around.