Post-Game Talk: Pens/Isles Plus/Minus Thread

[Al Smith]

Fact is when healthy there is no need for Adams. Our bottom six will be a combination of Comeau, Spaling, Goc and Sill on our fourth line. On our third line we will have a combination of Downie, Sutter, Comeau, Bennett and Spaling. That is barring out a trade for a goal scorer for Malkin which might even push Dupuis into that conversation. Really impressed with Spaling's play this year and understand those selling his praise in the off season.

Assuming BB becomes healthy, it will be interesting to see if Sill or Adams sits. Sill has definitely been more dynamic as far as forechecking goes (although both are pretty inept skill-wise). He's definitely outplayed Adams, but there's just no substitute for "savvy veteran leadership", or so the argument will go.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I've seem quite a few people say this.

1) we're 4 games into the year and the Penguins have had an incredibly easy schedule so far (4 games in, what, 11 days?).

2) The bottom-6 actually looked decent the first week or two last year, and we were all like, "LOL WE PAID THIS GUY THE MINIMUM FOR ALL THE GOALS!"

3) Craig Adams' last 2+ years say much, much more than the past 3 games.

4) Even if you think he's better (don't worry, I'm saving the best for last), removing him from the team would cost the team nothing. At his best, Craig Adams is a great #14.

5) Now, to the important stuff: Craig Adams is getting insulated with incredibly-favorable zone starts. Despite this, he's still in the bottom half of possession #s for the team.

He adds no physicality, no offensive ability, no skating ability, no puck possession ability, and the PK has been trash.

Yea, I think we can set our sights a bit higher.

So what is the difference in his TOI between this year and last season?

 

[IcedCapp]

So what is the difference in his TOI between this year and last season?

9:52 ATOI this year, 12:28 ATOI last year (which is actually higher than his 11:10 in 11-12)

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

9:52 ATOI this year, 12:28 ATOI last year (which is actually higher than his 11:10 in 11-12)

Is he getting less PK time?

I've noticed he isn't being used in a defensive role anymore, so that's probably why I notice him less and am not as frustrated with his presence.

 

[IcedCapp]

Is he getting less PK time?

I've noticed he isn't being used in a defensive role anymore, so that's probably why I notice him less and am not as frustrated with his presence.

2014-2015 Craig Adams: 3:31 SH TOI/GAME (3rd overall on team, 1st among forwards)

2013-2014 Craig Adams: 3:02 SH TOI/GAME (1st overall on team, 1st among forwards)

 

[wej20]

Is he getting less PK time?

I've noticed he isn't being used in a defensive role anymore, so that's probably why I notice him less and am not as frustrated with his presence.

He looks "better" because he's being used less. Don't get me wrong I'd still ship him out in a heartbeat but it's not close to as bad as last year yet.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

2014-2015 Craig Adams: 3:31 SH TOI/GAME (3rd overall on team, 1st among forwards)

2013-2014 Craig Adams: 3:02 SH TOI/GAME (1st overall on team, 1st among forwards)

How the **** does this guy trick two coaches into giving him the most PK time among fwds?

I guess I have to keep telling myself he isn't being used as a shutdown guy 5v5 anymore, and it will make me feel better.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

2014-2015 Craig Adams: 3:31 SH TOI/GAME (3rd overall on team, 1st among forwards)

2013-2014 Craig Adams: 3:02 SH TOI/GAME (1st overall on team, 1st among forwards)

What was his PK time when it worked against the Islanders?

This is painful to see, though. The standard should not be me being impressed when he manages to clear the puck.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He looks "better" because he's being used less. Don't get me wrong I'd still ship him out in a heartbeat but it's not close to as bad as last year yet.

He's not being used in a shut down role and comically being hemmed into his own zone for a full minute or more like he and Glass used to do.

So he is less noticeable for sure.

 

[Al Smith]

He's not being used in a shut down role and comically being hemmed into his own zone for a full minute or more like he and Glass used to do.

So he is less noticeable for sure.

It's definitely nice not to see the ice tilt 45 degrees toward Fleury/Zatkoff when Gladams hit the ice. In many cases, it was when two or three other lines had effectively taken the game to the other team. And it was so obvious, you wonder what the **** the coaching staff was looking at.

 

[ETA]

it's become apparent that gladams was exponentially worse than either glass or adams by themselves. trying to come up with the mathematical proof - could be nobel prize material.

lol!

 

[IcedCapp]

What was his PK time when it worked against the Islanders?

This is painful to see, though. The standard should not be me being impressed when he manages to clear the puck.

Adams had 4:44 against the Islanders.

 

[steveg]

I've seem quite a few people say this.

1) we're 4 games into the year and the Penguins have had an incredibly easy schedule so far (4 games in, what, 11 days?).

2) The bottom-6 actually looked decent the first week or two last year, and we were all like, "LOL WE PAID THIS GUY THE MINIMUM FOR ALL THE GOALS!"

3) Craig Adams' last 2+ years say much, much more than the past 3 games.

4) Even if you think he's better (don't worry, I'm saving the best for last), removing him from the team would cost the team nothing. At his best, Craig Adams is a great #14.

5) Now, to the important stuff: Craig Adams is getting insulated with incredibly-favorable zone starts. Despite this, he's still in the bottom half of possession #s for the team.

He adds no physicality, no offensive ability, no skating ability, no puck possession ability, and the PK has been trash.

Yea, I think we can set our sights a bit higher.

I was one of the ones that noted that I thought Adams doesn't look as bad as he did last year, at this point.

BUT -- that in no way, shape, or form means I think he deserves a spot in the top 12. YES -- we absolutely should set our sights higher. I was simply giving him a little credit for sucking just a bit less than he did most of last year. Nothing more.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Yikes. Still, he is last on the team at even strength with 6:21 per game.

Craig's ice is being minimized, he is paired with people who can carry him, he is matched against weak opposition, and he knows he is fighting for his job. All things Bylsma failed miserably at.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Adams had 4:44 against the Islanders.

He still extends his shifts like crazy. I seriously doubt he's getting the most shifts SH, but he doesn't change when he gets a chance near enough. Which should get him benched or in the press box sooner or later, I'd think.

 

[canadianguy77]

He still extends his shifts like crazy. I seriously doubt he's getting the most shifts SH, but he doesn't change when he gets a chance near enough. Which should get him benched or in the press box sooner or later, I'd think.

By the time he gets to our own blueline on his way for a change, the opposition is already bringing the puck back into our zone.

 

[Country Mac]

A couple times this year I've seen Suttsy go to the bench on the PK while Adams goes for a skate, pretending not to notice the bench. Guy just really wants to PK.

Although this is the best I've seen Adams playing in quite some time. His only job is to hound the puck and cycle it. He's done a pretty decent job of that.

When Beau comes back, though, Sill better stay in the lineup.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Is he getting less PK time?

I've noticed he isn't being used in a defensive role anymore, so that's probably why I notice him less and am not as frustrated with his presence.

Johnston's protecting him by giving him a ton of offensive zone starts too:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=63202

 

[wgknestrick]

A couple times this year I've seen Suttsy go to the bench on the PK while Adams goes for a skate, pretending not to notice the bench. Guy just really wants to PK.

Although this is the best I've seen Adams playing in quite some time. His only job is to hound the puck and cycle it. He's done a pretty decent job of that.

When Beau comes back, though, Sill better stay in the lineup.

MJ is just giving him prime zone starts and is trying to hide him (Adams and Sill have the highest % of offensive zone starts on team). Adams is still getting shelled respectively to that. All it will take is time for the poop to gather at the bottom. Should we really be starting Adams and Sill in the O-zone so much? They can't score.

Sill also is not a good hockey player. He has you fooled with his trying hard and hitting. Nothing much is happening when he's out there though. My jury is still out on the 4th line being fixed as long as Adams is part of it. I think Sill might be worse than Adams (but he does fight and can actually win those).

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sill is not worse than Adams. At worst, he's the same level at actual hockey but provides some physicality and fighting. He's not worse at anything.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Johnston's protecting him by giving him a ton of offensive zone starts too:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=63202

Only the Buffalo Sabres (3) have less even strength goals on the year than the Penguins (6).

Ew...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Ew...

Good catch.

I'm sure those numbers are not coincidental.

 

[Country Mac]

MJ is just giving him prime zone starts and is trying to hide him (Adams and Sill have the highest % of offensive zone starts on team). Adams is still getting shelled respectively to that. All it will take is time for the poop to gather at the bottom. Should we really be starting Adams and Sill in the O-zone so much? They can't score.

Sill also is not a good hockey player. He has you fooled with his trying hard and hitting. Nothing much is happening when he's out there though. My jury is still out on the 4th line being fixed as long as Adams is part of it. I think Sill might be worse than Adams (but he does fight and can actually win those).

Sill provides more than Adams does. He can skate, cycle, hit, and fight. I think he's the perfect 13th forward, much in the mold of a Jordan Nolan.

 

[clefty]

Good catch.

I'm sure those numbers are not coincidental.

Well, we're one of seven teams with that many 5 on 5 goals so far, and coincidentally many of those teams like us have only played four games. Chicago is down there too, it's really not something to worry about yet.

And it's also Florida who's last with 3, not Buffalo.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well, we're one of seven teams with that many 5 on 5 goals so far, and coincidentally many of those teams like us have only played four games. Chicago is down there too, it's really not something to worry about yet.

And it's also Florida who's last with 3, not Buffalo.

Oh no, I'm not worried. Our lines have generally looked good at even-strength, except for Malkin's for obvious reasons. But giving all those plum zone starts to the 4th line to hide their deficiencies plays a part in the slow ES production, I'm sure.