Post-Game Talk: Pens 4, Habs 1 - Old School Geno

[DesertPenguin]

I'm holding out hope the old man says **** it and somehow convinces Colorado to give us Duchene. Forward group would be hilarious to watch. So many combinations you could run.

I would love that too, but I don't see how you pull it off without blowing a hole in our defense and/or giving away guys like Guentzel, Sprong, Sundqvist who are big future pieces of the team.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I would love that too, but I don't see how you pull it off without blowing a hole in our defense and/or giving away guys like Guentzel, Sprong, Sundqvist who are big future pieces of the team.

Hypnotise them with Fleury's smile and Kunitz's...grit, leadership and veteran presence?

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Underestimate Hagelin at your own peril, as the Rags found out when they decided he was expendable and then all their odd-man rushes disappeared.

FWIW, Hagelin's got more goals and points right now than he did at the 44 game mark last season.

Historically, he finishes stronger than he starts, usually getting it going in February.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hagelca01/splits/

Indeed. You can't quit on Hags over his slow first half. If we're going on another run, we'll need Hagelin to be Hagelin. The club has a number of bigger worries than him.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

Kessel has to be on a third line. If he's on any of the top two lines, any advantage we have is wiped out, and just like 2009 - 2014, we become just another top heavy team that's easier to check. I'd like to avoid going back to that at all costs.

We have a month until Cullen comes back. IF Fehr can continue to prove he's much better at C than he is at the wing, and Bonino continues to flounder, I'd leave the 4th line as is and try Cullen in between Kessel and Hagelin for a while. 40 years old or not, he can still skate, wins a ton of board battles, and is still creative and skilled.

If it means scratching Bonino, so be it. Although he has a history of picking things up come playoff time (not just with the Pens) we can't sit back and keep praying that he does.

Either that, or pull another rabbit out of the hat and pick up a legit scoring winger. Then things get really interesting.

Sorry but I totally reject that, it's going to be pretty hard to contain a line with both Crosby/Malkin and Kessel. Is it easier to contain than if we had 3 full scoring lines? Well sure, but it's still pretty hard to contain, and you could work with it. It's not like if you iced the team with Kessel in the top 6 you instantly lose all hope head-to-head in the playoffs. The biggest thing is actually having Kessel make an impact, and if there is no impact on the third line, frankly you don't have choice but to try a different configuration, because you don't even have an advantage anymore.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Anyone have a clip of Pacioretty interfering with Sid right before he crosschecked him back, or Emelin's slew foot?

 

[ColePens]

Btw you Montreal folks... I'm heading there at the end of April. I need some good spots to go eat. I don't want touristy places... I want the goods. Best places to eat and go.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Sorry but I totally reject that, it's going to be pretty hard to contain a line with both Crosby/Malkin and Kessel. Is it easier to contain than if we had 3 full scoring lines? Well sure, but it's still pretty hard to contain, and you could work with it. It's not like if you iced the team with Kessel in the top 6 you instantly lose all hope head-to-head in the playoffs. The biggest thing is actually having Kessel make an impact, and if there is no impact on the third line, frankly you don't have choice but to try a different configuration, because you don't even have an advantage anymore.

'09 - we won because we had the best third line in hockey
2016 - we won because we had the best third line in hockey

Reject it all you want, but a lot of teams have great top sixes. I'd fight someone physically if you argued that Washington's top six isn't better on a whole than what the Pens have.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Btw you Montreal folks... I'm heading there at the end of April. I need some good spots to go eat. I don't want touristy places... I want the goods. Best places to eat and go.

Right up my alley.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

'09 - we won because we had the best third line in hockey
2016 - we won because we had the best third line in hockey

Reject it all you want, but a lot of teams have great top sixes. I'd fight someone physically if you argued that Washington's top six isn't better on a whole than what the Pens have.

What about the other teams that have won the cup within that time frame? Did they all have a stacked 3rd line? It's nice to be able to put an elite player on each line but that is by no means the only recipe for success. You just need solid depth, not having Kessel in the bottom 6 does not preclude you from having that.

 

[BHD]

Sorry but I totally reject that, it's going to be pretty hard to contain a line with both Crosby/Malkin and Kessel. Is it easier to contain than if we had 3 full scoring lines? Well sure, but it's still pretty hard to contain, and you could work with it. It's not like if you iced the team with Kessel in the top 6 you instantly lose all hope head-to-head in the playoffs. The biggest thing is actually having Kessel make an impact, and if there is no impact on the third line, frankly you don't have choice but to try a different configuration, because you don't even have an advantage anymore.

It's more a case of the top lines cancelling out than certain players being contained. Look at the matchups against the Caps and/or Sharks. Critical goals came from the players near the bottom of the lineup. The whole lineup needs to be able to play, and play well. That's why people were pumped about Fehr's game last night.

 

[SEALBound]

'09 - we won because we had the best third line in hockey
2016 - we won because we had the best third line in hockey

Reject it all you want, but a lot of teams have great top sixes. I'd fight someone physically if you argued that Washington's top six isn't better on a whole than what the Pens have.

Washington vs Pittsburgh 2016 had a lot more to do, IMHO, about 4th lines and goalies.

Caps rolled 3 nice lines. The ability of the Pens 4th line to match up better against the Caps tops lines was better than the Caps 4th line's ability to do so. With that, Holtby just let in a few more than Murray did.

Game 1, loss - close.
Game 2, win - close.
Game 3, win - Murray steals this in the 3rd.
Game 4, win - pure guts win with Letang out, Murray holds the fort.
Game 5, lose - close but Murray let in a few.
Game 6, win - Up 3, let 3 by, pure guts win.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

It's more a case of the top lines cancelling out than certain players being contained. Look at the matchups against the Caps and/or Sharks. Critical goals came from the players near the bottom of the lineup. The whole lineup needs to be able to play, and play well. That's why people were pumped about Fehr's game last night.

While that is true, I also see no reason why players can't get double shifts. You have 3 amazing forwards, you could afford to double shift all of them at different times and get a similar effect. And I know I sound like I'm beating a dead horse here but there is no matchup advantage with HBK atm. Maybe it'll eventually get there, but forcing Kessel to the third line when it is clearly not providing even a zero sum effect is only going to help us lose games in the playoffs, more so than stacking the top 6. Again, this could change but so far that seems like the reality of the situation.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Btw you Montreal folks... I'm heading there at the end of April. I need some good spots to go eat. I don't want touristy places... I want the goods. Best places to eat and go.

Schwartz Deli is a must. It's an institution in Montreal.

Burger Bar on Crescent was pretty good when I was there.

Braseiro is a FANTASTIC Portuguese / Brazilian place.

Campari Centro is a really good Italian spot.


Montreal is well known for its fantastic food (and easy women...but i digress). You will do well with the food there my friend.

 

[wgknestrick]

Btw you Montreal folks... I'm heading there at the end of April. I need some good spots to go eat. I don't want touristy places... I want the goods. Best places to eat and go.

Hit me up. Montreal has incredible food in general. One of the best cities for food.

Here are my 2 suggestions, they are both small and in the St.Henri area. I usually stay in this area for Formula 1 when I go. Unibroue is by far their best beer brewer. Montreal just isn't a big beer city though.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/22/30/


Restaurants:

Rasoï - Tandori chicken all day every day. They steal gold from a dragon, he breathes on it to cook it, excellent cocktails as well. Make sure you have a drink at the bar and chat up the bartender before sitting down.

Bagel St-Henri, used to be Bacci's - Best breakfast place. 2 guys operate one of the best cafes in the city. They will make you just about anything. They also have an fresh squeezed, orange juice machine. Yeah, they take this stuff serious.

Other than that, trust Google reviews with places over 30 reviews.

 

[BHD]

While that is true, I also see no reason why players can't get double shifts. You have 3 amazing forwards, you could afford to double shift all of them at different times and get a similar effect. And I know I sound like I'm beating a dead horse here but there is no matchup advantage with HBK atm. Maybe it'll eventually get there, but forcing Kessel to the third line when it is clearly not providing even a zero sum effect is only going to help us lose games in the playoffs, more so than stacking the top 6. Again, this could change but so far that seems like the reality of the situation.

Agreed. That is why people are fixated on what Sully uses for line combos. Ideally, Sid and Geno would see a boost on their line AND the third line would still be effective.

 

[DegenX]

Schwartz Deli is a must. It's an institution in Montreal.

Burger Bar on Crescent was pretty good when I was there.

Braseiro is a FANTASTIC Portuguese / Brazilian place.

Campari Centro is a really good Italian spot.


Montreal is well known for its fantastic food (and easy women...but i digress). You will do well with the food there my friend.

Hit me up. Montreal has incredible food in general. One of the best cities for food.

Here are my 2 suggestions, they are both small and in the St.Henri area. I usually stay in this area for Formula 1 when I go. Unibroue is by far their best beer brewer. Montreal just isn't a big beer city though.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/22/30/


Restaurants:

Rasoï - Tandori chicken all day every day. They steal gold from a dragon, he breathes on it to cook it, excellent cocktails as well. Make sure you have a drink at the bar and chat up the bartender before sitting down.

Bagel St-Henri, used to be Bacci's - Best breakfast place. 2 guys operate one of the best cafes in the city. They will make you just about anything. They also have an fresh squeezed, orange juice machine. Yeah, they take this stuff serious.

Other than that, trust Google reviews with places over 30 reviews.

Have either of you tried Joe Beef? Is it really as fantastic as everyone says?

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Have either of you tried Joe Beef? Is it really as fantastic as everyone says?

Can't say that I have but, like you, have only heard good things.

Ottawa is also becoming quite the food hot spot. Lots of good places opening up all the time.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Btw you Montreal folks... I'm heading there at the end of April. I need some good spots to go eat. I don't want touristy places... I want the goods. Best places to eat and go.

My Francophone buddy swears that a little diner called Nouveau Systeme has the best poutine in Montreal. Went there during a stopover, and it was the best I've ever had. Nothing fancy, just every element done right.

 

[mpp9]

I will never understand the fascination with friggin cheese curds.

 

[Clare2904]

Chips, cheese and gravy ain't bloody French. I used to get that from the chippy on my way home from a night drinking when I was back home in the UK. Much nicer too than the **** served here.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Kessel has to be on a third line. If he's on any of the top two lines, any advantage we have is wiped out, and just like 2009 - 2014, we become just another top heavy team that's easier to check. I'd like to avoid going back to that at all costs.

The "cup drought" in that year wasn't primarily because of the third line. There were lots of reasons for it.

1. It's just really hard to win the Stanley Cup. You're not going to win it every year.
2. With Gack-Andre Fleury gacking it up and flopping around in the playoffs, they were giving too many free games away to other good teams.
3. One year they went into the playoffs without both Sid and Malkin. HBK and Staal put together wouldn't have been enough to salvage that.
4. A lot of years, the third line wasn't just middling, it was downright incompetent. Shero's fascination with paying seven-figure salaries to fourth liners with no skill whatsoever neutered secondary scoring. The early-2010s equivalent of Guentzel-Bonino-Rust would have been fine if the fourth line had the early-2010s equivalent of Kuhn-Cullen-Wilson instead of the utter ****splosion that was Gladams.
5. When the team wasn't paying for no-talent hacks in the offseason, it was trading for them around mid-season. Who can forget Dougie Murray and Daniel Winnik? Or Ponikarovski? Just having guys like that on the team makes the team worse.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Having your top 3 forwards on three different lines is not the only way to win. Its not even the most common way to win.

 

[mpp9]

The point is, your team still needs to play well and score when 87 and 71 aren't on the ice. Regular season is fine to load things up, but coaches play the matchup game and top lines cacmcel one another out. For instance, Backstrom does very well against Sid. He neutralized him last spring. Same thing with Bergeron. You're better off having Kessel run wild against another team's **** players.

 

[mpp9]

Having your top 3 forwards on three different lines is not the only way to win. Its not even the most common way to win.

Seems to work for us though. Not every team is alike.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The point is, your team still needs to play well and score when 87 and 71 aren't on the ice. Regular season is fine to load things up, but coaches play the matchup game and top lines cacmcel one another out. For instance, Backstrom does very well against Sid. He neutralized him last spring. Same thing with Bergeron. You're better off having Kessel run wild against another team's **** players.

On the other hand, it becomes harder to cancel out Sid's line if you make Sid's line better.

Seems to work for us though. Not every team is alike.

I'd love to see the HBK line get going again. But if it doesn't, it would be stupid to stick with it through the playoffs. And so far this year, it doesn't work.