Post-Game Talk: Pens 4, Habs 1 - Old School Geno

[mpp9]

On the other hand, it becomes harder to cancel out Sid's line if you make Sid's line better.

Is it easier for Kessel to score against Backstrom+Alzner/Carlson/Nisky. Or against Jay Beagle+Nate Schmidt?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Is it easier for Kessel to score against Backstrom+Alzner/Carlson/Nisky. Or against Jay Beagle+Nate Schmidt?

With Sid on his line vs the current version of Bonino? That's a good question. I'd love to see us find out. But I'd lean towards the former if Bonino doesn't get better.

 

[mpp9]

They're not gonna stick with it in the playoffs if we're a loss or two away from elimination. For now, Sullivan is trying it in hopes of them coming around. Malkin is looking like he's gonna beast the rest of the regular season. And we're winning. We can afford to be a bit stubborn for now.

 

[Ogrezilla]

They're not gonna stick with it in the playoffs if we're a loss or two away from elimination. For now, Sullivan is trying it in hopes of them coming around. Malkin is looking like he's gonna beast the rest of the regular season. And we're winning. We can afford to be a bit stubborn for now.

we can afford to test other things out too. If Bonino starts playing better, try Kessel there again. As is, I just don't see the point. Bonino needs to get his own game together. No reason to waste Kessel in the meantime.

 

[Son Goku]

Bonino seems to be a playoff only type of guy.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Bonino seems to be a playoff only type of guy.

then I'd make HBK a playoff only kind of line.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

The problem with HBK is simple: it isn't working.

The problem with not-HBK is more complicated: they brought back the exact team they won the Cup with. The whole roster is built around the assumption that HBK will be used and will work. Without HBK, can they even put together a decent 3rd line that can outplay other 3rd lines? I'm not sure.

I think it would be worth finding that out in the regular season, though.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Everyone was crowing about what great depth the Penguins had last year. Surely everyone didn't just mean "Kessel is playing on the third line" by that? Especially after seeing most of these young players continue to flourish this season? I think the team has enough options, even without a move, to make up an excellent top six and still field a different-but-still-good third line. If everyone plays to their potential and perhaps a move is made to help shore up the back end... that's still very much a Cup contending roster.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The problem with HBK is simple: it isn't working.

The problem with not-HBK is more complicated: they brought back the exact team they won the Cup with. The whole roster is built around the assumption that HBK will be used and will work. Without HBK, can they even put together a decent 3rd line that can outplay other 3rd lines? I'm not sure.

I think it would be worth finding that out in the regular season, though.

Only if Bonino is playing well. Guentzel and Rust can be a solid 3rd line wing combo if HMK is the 2nd line imo. But it doesn't matter who the wings are if the 3C sucks. The third line sucks even with Kessel on it if Bonino continues to suck.

 

[NMK11]

The problem with HBK is simple: it isn't working.

The problem with not-HBK is more complicated: they brought back the exact team they won the Cup with. The whole roster is built around the assumption that HBK will be used and will work. Without HBK, can they even put together a decent 3rd line that can outplay other 3rd lines? I'm not sure.

I think it would be worth finding that out in the regular season, though.

I think they can. I think Jake-Bonino-Rust is a good third line, even if Bonino is not playing his best. Plus, its important to realize if that is our third line, then our top six is loaded. If that third line is a draw with other teams third lines, our fourth line is still one of the best in the league and were down to our top 6 outplaying other teams top 6.

Im personally a fan of keep going with HBK, because I think that makes the team the best overall and I think all three of those players turn it up in the playoffs.

 

[Penske]

I think they can. I think Jake-Bonino-Rust is a good third line, even if Bonino is not playing his best. Plus, its important to realize if that is our third line, then our top six is loaded. If that third line is a draw with other teams third lines, our fourth line is still one of the best in the league and were down to our top 6 outplaying other teams top 6.

Im personally a fan of keep going with HBK, because I think that makes the team the best overall and I think all three of those players turn it up in the playoffs.

That's a good point that Guentzel-Bonino-Rust really only needs to break even.

Sids line and HMK as a whole should be a win against any other teams top 6.

Cullen's line should be a win too and if needed he can step in for Bonino. We need to make sure Cullen is managed to peak for the playoffs (which I'm sure they are planning that, for the rest of the team too). If no trades are made it's especially important so he can move up if needed.

 

[Tender Rip]

Obviously, I will some times go into contrarian mode for the heck of it.

But while being rather critical of the HBK line, the religious notion from many here that it had to persist this season, and Bonino in particular... I think we're also harping on too much somewhat due to the enormity of strength we have at C compared to other teams.
We have the best 1st and 2nd line C's in the league. Cullen is certainly also a good shout for best 4C. Then there's Erik Fehr for cover and we have Sundqvist in the minors.

Bonino is tied for 75th in points among C's in the league, and he is tied for 77th in ES points. That's 3C territory alright.

What this does not account for is that he easily has better linemates than most 3Cs do, and the line at least ought to be a net positive on most nights. They're not. He is a primary reason as any eye test or graph will show, but his linemates certainly have blame also because Bonino IS a third line C, and they're the ones who will have to elevate him.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Obviously, I will some times go into contrarian mode for the heck of it.

But while being rather critical of the HBK line, the religious notion from many here that it had to persist this season, and Bonino in particular... I think we're also harping on too much somewhat due to the enormity of strength we have at C compared to other teams.
We have the best 1st and 2nd line C's in the league. Cullen is certainly also a good shout for best 4C. Then there's Erik Fehr for cover and we have Sundqvist in the minors.

Bonino is tied for 75th in points among C's in the league, and he is tied for 77th in ES points. That's 3C territory alright.

What this does not account for is that he easily has better linemates than most 3Cs do, and the line at least ought to be a net positive on most nights. They're not. He is a primary reason as any eye test or graph will show, but his linemates certainly have blame also because Bonino IS a third line C, and they're the ones who will have to elevate him.

Bonino is playing garbage hockey most of the time right now. No way can you blame it on his linemates. He needs to be better. He's coasting out there most nights.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

Obviously, I will some times go into contrarian mode for the heck of it.

But while being rather critical of the HBK line, the religious notion from many here that it had to persist this season, and Bonino in particular... I think we're also harping on too much somewhat due to the enormity of strength we have at C compared to other teams.
We have the best 1st and 2nd line C's in the league. Cullen is certainly also a good shout for best 4C. Then there's Erik Fehr for cover and we have Sundqvist in the minors.

Bonino is tied for 75th in points among C's in the league, and he is tied for 77th in ES points. That's 3C territory alright.

What this does not account for is that he easily has better linemates than most 3Cs do, and the line at least ought to be a net positive on most nights. They're not. He is a primary reason as any eye test or graph will show, but his linemates certainly have blame also because Bonino IS a third line C, and they're the ones who will have to elevate him.

Hagelin is a hard working winger but in all honesty he's also a third line winger. Kessel is a first line winger but he's not Crosby and he's not Malkin. It's asking a lot of a player to elevate two depth players for a lengthy period of time if they've lost even the ability to make clean passes to each other and would prefer to dump and chase, something that completely ignores one of Kessel's strengths which is to cleanly gain the zone with possession.

 

[Tender Rip]

Bonino is playing garbage hockey most of the time right now. No way can you blame it on his linemates. He needs to be better. He's coasting out there most nights.

Hagelin is a hard working winger but in all honesty he's also a third line winger. Kessel is a first line winger but he's not Crosby and he's not Malkin. It's asking a lot of a player to elevate two depth players for a lengthy period of time if they've lost even the ability to make clean passes to each other and would prefer to dump and chase, something that completely ignores one of Kessel's strengths which is to cleanly gain the zone with possession.

Kessel is a top line winger. Hagelin is a middle six winger. Bonino is a third line C. It is a line getting third line matchups, so Kessel is not being asked to elevate two depth players. He is asked to abuse lower competition, and certainly on paper that line is superior to most of their opponents shift by shift.

I have been quite clear that I also find Bonino the weak link in terms of both pedigree and performance, but I don't see how we can rationally make the lines struggles all about Bonino.

 

[mpp9]

I can't remember the last time Hagelin made a great forecheck and Bonino made a great pass. Kessel is the play driver, but he doesn't have much to work with. Guentzel and Sheary are playing significantly better.

 

[JTG]

Hey.. if Bones wants to slack off, move Cully up and keep Fehr as the 4th line center. Let Bones sit. The way Bones is playing, he sure as **** doesn't deserve a lineup spot each night. Let him face adversity. I fully believe #13 will respond positively.

I would have personally made Cullen 3C a long time ago and reduced Bonino's minutes. The thing is, this is sort of Bonino every year. He'll heat up in March, fly into the playoffs, put up huge point totals, and everyone forgets how bad he sucks for 65 games.

If we weren't going into an expansion draft, I'd personally rather us find an upgrade over Bonino.

I can't remember the last time Hagelin made a great forecheck and Bonino made a great pass. Kessel is the play driver, but he doesn't have much to work with. Guentzel and Sheary are playing significantly better.

Hagelin is a guy I like having in the lineup because he has the ability to create havoc with his speed. He has the ability to be a difference maker.

Bonino isn't winning faceoffs, he isn't scoring points, he's really doing nothing to help the team currently. You can at least put Hagelin on the PK, and defensemen literally **** their pants as he's circling around.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Kessel is a top line winger. Hagelin is a middle six winger. Bonino is a third line C. It is a line getting third line matchups, so Kessel is not being asked to elevate two depth players. He is asked to abuse lower competition, and certainly on paper that line is superior to most of their opponents shift by shift.

I have been quite clear that I also find Bonino the weak link in terms of both pedigree and performance, but I don't see how we can rationally make the lines struggles all about Bonino.

My rationale is that both Hags and Kessel have looked good away from Bonino, but ass with Bonino. Obviously away from Bonino has meant with Geno for them, so you can't get a perfectly fair comparison. But both have done better against better competition with a good center.

 

[wgknestrick]

Bonino seems to be a playoff only type of guy.

Or he was just really good for a short period of a single season.

Career
Playoffs: .61pts/game
Regular: .45pts/game

If you remove last season's playoffs (.75pts/g) from his playoff totals: .50pts/game. That's pretty close to his regular season totals.

 

[DegenX]

There's a game tonight, and we seem to have moved past discussing this one.
Bonino thread is here and the All-purpose thread is here

Also, no one is scheduled to make a GDT for tonight's game, so if someone could help out that would be awesome.