Post-Game Talk: Pens 4, Habs 1 - Old School Geno

[mpp9]

It depends which way they go. If 4 and 4, Hagelin is likely exposed anyway. If 7 forwards, not sure you even need to expose Hagelin. I'd let Wilson go before Hagelin, but am beginning to prefer Rust over Hagelin.

If Wilson shows he can stay healthy and produce in an elevated role, I'm definitely protecting him over Hagelin. Salary cap. Can't be paying depth players millions. And that's what Hagelin is very soon with Guentzel and Sheary on LW. Along with Wilson and Kuhn.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

meh, that skating is useful for a lot of things though. His forechecking alone is incredibly valuable. He makes guys make mistakes. Good on the backcheck and PK. He's not scoring but he's definitely useful. Pressure makes teams make mistakes, and that's how you score goals. He's not scoring, but he's useful

He's good at the forecheck but his ability to continue a play is non-existent right now, it doesn't result in anything. He may get the puck but then more often than not it goes to no one in particular and usually ends up in a change of possession. Then that line is stuck chasing for the rest of their shift. That's my problem with him at the moment.

 

[mpp9]

Yeah he's like a half tier above Glass at the moment with his forechecking. Nothing comes of it.

 

[Shady Machine]

If Wilson shows he can stay healthy and produce in an elevated role, I'm definitely protecting him over Hagelin. Salary cap. Can't be paying depth players millions. And that's what Hagelin is very soon with Guentzel and Sheary on LW. Along with Wilson and Kuhn.

That's a fair argument. I guess I'd wait to see how things play out the rest of the season before deciding.

 

[mpp9]

That's a fair argument. I guess I'd wait to see how things play out the rest of the season before deciding.

For sure. Wilson's health is his biggest issue. He could very well wreck his ankle again and go back to struggling.

But as of now, he'd be my 3rd line LW next season.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I suppose I'm guilty of the latter, to a degree, but full marks to you for sure (not being sarcastic).

Eh. It isn't a "told ya so" thing. And Bonino might well pick things up as a response to a potential benching or his line being dismantled. Then I'm back to looking like a boob, huh? But I kind of doubt that's the case. It's a little like when everyone was crowing about Dupuis suddenly being a "bonafide top six wing" after many years in the league of decidedly not being one. I suppose anything is possible... but guys don't just usually find another level all of the sudden. That isn't to say that Bones hasn't had a top-six-ish season or two, before. But he was flying with star players in a complimentary role. Not trying to hold down his own line.

 

[Shady Machine]

Eh. It isn't a "told ya so" thing. And Bonino might well pick things up as a response to a potential benching or his line being dismantled. Then I'm back to looking like a boob, huh? But I kind of doubt that's the case. It's a little like when everyone was crowing about Dupuis suddenly being a "bonafide top six wing" after many years in the league of decidedly not being one. I suppose anything is possible... but guys don't just usually find another level all of the sudden. That isn't to say that Bones hasn't had a top-six-ish season or two, before. But he was flying with star players in a complimentary role. Not trying to hold down his own line.

I certainly didn't take it in a braggadocios manner. I was just saying that many of us that argued for HBK from the start so far look to be wrong. I would move away from it and try to find lines that click without HBK as a thing and only go back to it after exhausting all other reasonable options.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Watching something like that unfold is hard not to get excited about. And to want to see it continue is only natural. There's no shame in wanting the team to continue having a ridiculous competitive advantage. I just never saw it as realistic over the long term and hoped that the team would understand that, as well. So far so bad. I don't even mind that they went right back to it, at first. Why wouldn't you at least try? But we're at the point now where it's like... OK... enough is enough, guys. And it has been for weeks.

And yeah, man... attempting to be a braggart looks bad on me. Life, the Cosmos, Karma or whatever you want to call it has a funny way of immediately knocking me down in the rare instances I've tried. And though I'm certainly a student of the school of self-depreciating humor... there is only so much looking the fool that a person can take.

 

[billybudd]

Underestimate Hagelin at your own peril, as the Rags found out when they decided he was expendable and then all their odd-man rushes disappeared.

FWIW, Hagelin's got more goals and points right now than he did at the 44 game mark last season.

Historically, he finishes stronger than he starts, usually getting it going in February.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hagelca01/splits/

we did not win the cup because we had malkin and Sid and Kessel. Tha was not enough. We won the cup because we supplement them with skill needed to get the best out of their greatness.

We won because we brought Hornquist to give us net front tenacity presence that we lacked for all these years, we won because they swap "skilled perron with not so skilled Hagelin" who brought that speed that allows us to put the pressure on their defense, create turnovers, get the puck and sustain pressure" the goal scoring and chance creating was gravy, and we won cause we brought daley, who sped up that transition game, allow us to have two legit pairing that can take the puck out with speed pinch and rush with speed" and we won because we had a stable goaltending.

 

[vodeni]

Yeah he's like a half tier above Glass at the moment with his forechecking. Nothing comes of it.

This is a ludicrous statement. It never stops to amaze me that people have such a short memory.

we did not win the cup because we had malkin and Sid and Kessel. Tha was not enough. We won the cup because we supplement them with skill needed to get the best out of their greatness.

We won because we brought Hornquist to give us net front tenacity presence that we lacked for all these years, we won because they swap "skilled perron with not so skilled Hagelin" who brought that speed that allows us to put the pressure on their defense, create turnovers, get the puck and sustain pressure" the goal scoring and chance creating was gravy, and we won cause we brought daley, who sped up that transition game, allow us to have two legit pairing that can take the puck out with speed pinch and rush with speed" and we won because we had a stable goaltending.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I did notice a couple times where Geno could have hit an open Guentzel but didn't. I doubt Geno holds anything against him. Chemistry will come. Or...maybe Geno doesn't want Jake to outscore his buddy Chris

Heh... yeah... I don't really hold it against Malkin. It's a little frustrating but I think some of it is trust and some of it is simply figuring out his linemate's tendencies. Not everyone is a teacher/mentor, ya know? Like I said... keep it together a few more games and you should see much more in the way of dynamic plays between Malkin and Guentzel. Guentzel's positioning, instincts and offensive awareness are just too solid for Malkin to ignore.

Ya I'm not saying he does it because he has something against him, he just naturally does it because he is likely afraid he won't get the puck back and doesn't trust him yet.

It will eventually come, but it isn't any less frustrating to watch knowing that. I can only imagine how irritated Guentzel has to be when he likes playing with the puck on his stick.

Maybe drop Bones one line and bring up the 4th line center whether thats Fehr or Cullen.

Ya, Tender Rip suggested Cullen in that spot when he gets healthy and I never thought of that, but it's a good idea if Bones doesn't improve.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I guess, to be fair to Malkin, it's tough not to be a little damaged by having to play with a bunch of stone-handed spazzes the majority of your career. Especially knowing what you can do with the puck on your stick. Same goes for Crosby, to a lesser extent.

I'd be reluctant to give it up, too. Because the past has largely shown that very often... it just doesn't come back and gets booted into the corner, instead.

 

[The Greatest 101]

I think G can get both Hag and Kessel back on track,but playing Guentzel with Bones might kill little Jake's confidence and there's also Horny. I'm torn.

 

[JTG]

Why can't Evgeni Malkin play every single game like this? If this was Geno for the last 9 years, he'd be the unquestioned best hockey player in the world, and it's not even close.

 

[Epic Neal Time]

I think this is the roster we should run:

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Bonino-Rust
Kunitz-Cullen-Wilson

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Underestimate Hagelin at your own peril, as the Rags found out when they decided he was expendable and then all their odd-man rushes disappeared.

FWIW, Hagelin's got more goals and points right now than he did at the 44 game mark last season.

Historically, he finishes stronger than he starts, usually getting it going in February.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hagelca01/splits/

Yeah. While neither Bones nor Hags have found their groove this year, we shouldn't write either of them off.

I think it's enough to say that HBK isn't working right now, so we should try something else. Try Kessel with Sid or Geno. Move Rust down. Try Fehr or Cullen at 3C. Maybe even bench one of Hags or Bones for a game to wake them up. Kuhn or Sundqvist could use some games here anyway.

 

[Pancakes]

Why can't Evgeni Malkin play every single game like this? If this was Geno for the last 9 years, he'd be the unquestioned best hockey player in the world, and it's not even close.

When he is on top of his game like that he is pretty ridiculous. I think most would agree that his peak level of performance exceeds even Crosby's. For whatever reason though Sid can stay at peak performance more often than Malkin can.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

This is a ludicrous statement. It never stops to amaze me that people have such a short memory.

we did not win the cup because we had malkin and Sid and Kessel. Tha was not enough. We won the cup because we supplement them with skill needed to get the best out of their greatness.

We won because we brought Hornquist to give us net front tenacity presence that we lacked for all these years, we won because they swap "skilled perron with not so skilled Hagelin" who brought that speed that allows us to put the pressure on their defense, create turnovers, get the puck and sustain pressure" the goal scoring and chance creating was gravy, and we won cause we brought daley, who sped up that transition game, allow us to have two legit pairing that can take the puck out with speed pinch and rush with speed" and we won because we had a stable goaltending.

That was the case last year, no doubt about it. As of right now it's not the reality of the situation, there is no pressure on the defense leading to sustained pressure when it comes to Hagelin because nobody on HBK, besides Kessel, as it is today can make a pass or receive a pass to start a cycle game without resulting in a turnover. Everything points to it not working this year, a complete 180 from last season.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Kessel has to be on a third line. If he's on any of the top two lines, any advantage we have is wiped out, and just like 2009 - 2014, we become just another top heavy team that's easier to check. I'd like to avoid going back to that at all costs.

We have a month until Cullen comes back. IF Fehr can continue to prove he's much better at C than he is at the wing, and Bonino continues to flounder, I'd leave the 4th line as is and try Cullen in between Kessel and Hagelin for a while. 40 years old or not, he can still skate, wins a ton of board battles, and is still creative and skilled.

If it means scratching Bonino, so be it. Although he has a history of picking things up come playoff time (not just with the Pens) we can't sit back and keep praying that he does.

Either that, or pull another rabbit out of the hat and pick up a legit scoring winger. Then things get really interesting.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I guess, to be fair to Malkin, it's tough not to be a little damaged by having to play with a bunch of stone-handed spazzes the majority of your career. Especially knowing what you can do with the puck on your stick. Same goes for Crosby, to a lesser extent.

I'd be reluctant to give it up, too. Because the past has largely shown that very often... it just doesn't come back and gets booted into the corner, instead.

Crosby has had the same issues, but he is more willing to trust his new linemates and try to work with them.

I was afraid this would happen if he was with Malkin and there is a sense of paranoia that if he doesn't show extremely well early on, he will get sent back. If we knew Guenztel was up permanently I wouldn't care that much, but he needs the puck to play his best, so hopefully Malkin starts sharing it with him pretty soon.

 

[Shady Machine]

Crosby has had the same issues, but he is more willing to trust his new linemates and try to work with them.

I was afraid this would happen if he was with Malkin and there is a sense of paranoia that if he doesn't show extremely well early on, he will get sent back. If we knew Guenztel was up permanently I wouldn't care that much, but he needs the puck to play his best, so hopefully Malkin starts sharing it with him pretty soon.

I guess I'm not worried because regardless of any chemistry with Malkin, the kid is making his own offense and playing a solid 2 way game.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I guess I'm not worried because regardless of any chemistry with Malkin, the kid is making his own offense and playing a solid 2 way game.

I disagree.

Have you seen his W2HBK/60?

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Kessel has to be on a third line. If he's on any of the top two lines, any advantage we have is wiped out, and just like 2009 - 2014, we become just another top heavy team that's easier to check. I'd like to avoid going back to that at all costs.

We have a month until Cullen comes back. IF Fehr can continue to prove he's much better at C than he is at the wing, and Bonino continues to flounder, I'd leave the 4th line as is and try Cullen in between Kessel and Hagelin for a while. 40 years old or not, he can still skate, wins a ton of board battles, and is still creative and skilled.

If it means scratching Bonino, so be it. Although he has a history of picking things up come playoff time (not just with the Pens) we can't sit back and keep praying that he does.

Either that, or pull another rabbit out of the hat and pick up a legit scoring winger. Then things get really interesting.

It absolutely can work.

Look I want HBK to work as much as anyone. But if it doesn't, we still ice a pretty damn good team (assuming they keep their collective heads out of their *****).

I mean .. sure the 3 mine thing worked and I'd love to see it work again. Loading up the top 6 didn't exactly leave gladdams on the 3rd line so let's not exaggerate here. The 3rd line will still be a pain in the ass and will still score, albeit at less a clip than HBK.

 

[Shady Machine]

I disagree.

Have you seen his W2HBK/60?

 

[mpp9]

Kessel has to be on a third line. If he's on any of the top two lines, any advantage we have is wiped out, and just like 2009 - 2014, we become just another top heavy team that's easier to check. I'd like to avoid going back to that at all costs.

We have a month until Cullen comes back. IF Fehr can continue to prove he's much better at C than he is at the wing, and Bonino continues to flounder, I'd leave the 4th line as is and try Cullen in between Kessel and Hagelin for a while. 40 years old or not, he can still skate, wins a ton of board battles, and is still creative and skilled.

If it means scratching Bonino, so be it. Although he has a history of picking things up come playoff time (not just with the Pens) we can't sit back and keep praying that he does.

Either that, or pull another rabbit out of the hat and pick up a legit scoring winger. Then things get really interesting.

I'm holding out hope the old man says **** it and somehow convinces Colorado to give us Duchene. Forward group would be hilarious to watch. So many combinations you could run.