Post-Game Talk: Pens 3, Panthers 2 - Now THAT Is What A 6M Winger Looks Like

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Yeah they need to really sort that out.

Guentzel, Crosby, McCann - I like this mix.
Simon, Malkin, Hornqvist
Aston-Reese, Bjugstad, Kessel

I'd give that top 9 a whirl.

Simon and ZAR. Hopefully become what we need. Simon with more finish...close to 20 goal scorer(if hes in top 9 thats not too much to ask). And ZAR using his body..being that mix of Kunitz and Horny instead of Glass and Adams. They are still young..we'll see. I stilll think guys like Bellerive and Bjorkqvist will replace them tho. Then theyll become what I said somewhere else. They have the long leash right now since nobody is really pushing them for PT but that will happen soon so we will find out .

 

[Andy99]

Name me a team with multiple Guentzels that has center depth that rivals Malkin and Crosby.

Ok...well now you’re getting crazy because you know that’s the top depth...but if you’re asking who has a really good 1-2 centers and two wingers who score close to 30+ goals a year, that’s pretty much every real contender in the East—TB, BOS, WSH, TOR and WPG, Calgary...even CLB you’d have to give the nod now to with Debois, Duchene in the middle and Panarin, Atkinson...

 

[harmonica]

Toronto’s core is actually a bunch of divas other than Captain Morgan

Jake is arguably the best thing that could have happened for this orginizations. A player who excels in big moments who can take some pressure off Sid and Geno

Without going in to each and every player of the Leafs core, I have no idea how you could call somebody like Marner a diva.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Toronto’s core is actually a bunch of divas other than Captain Morgan

Jake is arguably the best thing that could have happened for this orginizations. A player who excels in big moments who can take some pressure off Sid and Geno

Agreed..and to do what he did in the playoffs "before" the reg season is what I like most. 2 straight years of straight up dominating the playoffs(idk if we win it all without him in 2017, and he destroyed the Flyers last year on pace for over 40 points if we went to finals) before being productive in regular season. He got his points here and there but there were still concerns.

Also what amazed me the most(and showed he was for real) is how many chances he got(not just from Sid but his own doing) that didnt go in. Hes like Sid where each game we said he could have finished with 5+ points. He continues to do this which tells me he wont fall off. Real deal and 6mil per year. Kid wants to be here.

Give me one more of him...our next chance at that is Bellerive. Lets hope he reaches his ceiling.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Ok...well now you’re getting crazy because you know that’s the top depth...but if you’re asking who has a really good 1-2 centers and two wingers who score close to 30+ goals a year, that’s pretty much every real contender in the East—TB, BOS, WSH, TOR and WPG, Calgary...even CLB you’d have to give the nod now to with Debois, Duchene in the middle and Panarin, Atkinson...

Agree, theres alot more talent now than there used to be. Teams are way more stacked now. Hence the reason we dont see the typical 4th liner scrub or fighter like we saw so much of in the past. Even tho theres a few still hanging on lol..you see 4th liners who actually have some talent now. That can score.

But anyway to me its all about the playoffs. Who steps up...who doesnt. Weve seen Guentzel do it...thats why Im so high on him. Yet theres guys on other teams who put up 80+ points in reg season but disappear in the playoffs. And in alot of cases that can be the difference between that team winning it all and getting eliminated. Look at Caps. Solid players this whole era. But in playoffs didnt have " enough" guys who were playoff types. Now they land Kuznetsov and he was the main reason they finally won. Team sport of course, but can come down to one player's production in the playoffs at times. For example you know what you are getting from your top guys on each team so they kind of cancel eachother out assuming they are close in production... but they cant be the only ones every single game if youre gonna play 20+ playoff games. You need someone else to take their game to another level. Kessel did that for us in 2016 and Guentzel in 2017. Those were the 2 I look at that if we didnt have we dont win. Doesnt mean there werent others who played great, but Jakes (12?) Goals and the timing of them were the difference imo. Nashville could have taken game 1 if not for him. Who knows what happens if they took that.

Kuznetsov had so many timely goals last year. They made Tampa and Vegas look bad. We were the toughest team they played imo and had guys hurt(no secondary scoring) . And we still could have won if not for Kuz. Look at 2016 and 17...he wasnt ready yet. Caps fans kept mentioning how disappointing he was. Great reg season numbers but didnt step up against us.

Theres still alot more that goes into winning a cup(lucky bounces..goaltendjng...bettman..) Im just mentioning one big factor. When teams are close in talent (on paper..on ice) the ones that win are the teams who have more guys built for playoff hockey. Like I said, Caps were one perfect example over the years. Winnipeg kinda reminds me of one so far...we'll see what happens this year. And so on. Theres a reason Chicago won 3, LA 2 and Pens 3. Had their core produce like they normally do but also others who came out of nowhere. Need both. Some dont even have their core step up

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Toronto’s core is actually a bunch of divas other than Captain Morgan

Idk man, Marner really seems like a great kid. Huge fan of his.

 

[EightyOne]

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Imagine if Sid had a guy like Guentzel on his line through the prime of his career. Sid's playing out of this world, but it's also nice to have a guy on his line who can actually bury the chances Sid creates.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Imagine if Sid had a guy like Guentzel on his line through the prime of his career. Sid's playing out of this world, but it's also nice to have a guy on his line who can actually bury the chances Sid creates.

Kunitz was really quite a good player for a few years. Yeah Jake would have been better but I don't think Sid was necessarily short-changed.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Kunitz was really quite a good player for a few years. Yeah Jake would have been better but I don't think Sid was necessarily short-changed.

Kunitz definitely brought a lot of the little things to the table, but just in terms of pure skill and ability to convert on Sid's chances, he's not on Guentzel's level. Guentzel's on pace to smash Kunitz's best season as a Pen by quite a margin this year. And that's without the benefit of being given top unit PP minutes like Kunitz got.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Imagine if Sid had a guy like Guentzel on his line through the prime of his career. Sid's playing out of this world, but it's also nice to have a guy on his line who can actually bury the chances Sid creates.

Well it had to be evened out. Pens fans got to witness Mario/Jagr and then Crosby/Malkin. So of course injuries(Mario would be real close to Gretzky if he stayed healthy) to both Lemieux and Crosby that really impacted their point totals. Crosby not nearly as much as Mario but since it was his peak that really hurt. And non Pens fans arent bright enough(or simply choose to ignore on purpose) to realize what he would have done those years. So since it didnt happen(130+ points) ..it wouldn't have. and also for Sid..linemates. Mario only had Robbie Brown types for a few years. Crosby did for 10.

Empty nets a close 3rd for Sid.....idk if it gives him flashbacks of his dryer but he turns into Hagelin on a breakaway when he sees no goalie.

Weve been extremely lucky to have those 4 so of course it had to be evened out due to injuries, etc. Or else we would have won a few more cups. While their rivals (Wayne and OV) basically never missed a game. Still amazes me Mario didnt even play 1000 games yet still put up those stats.

Guentzel will keep Crosby at this level tho well into his 30s so we can look forward to that. Him constantly helping Kunitz and Dupuis those years actually took away from his game in the playoffs imo. Made no sense he stopped scoring come playoff time until you look back at who he played with. That was due to linemates for sure, playoffs being alot harder to score. We need more Guentzels if we want to keep this window open. Start drafting like the Sharks, Bruins, and Lightning. Keeping a first round pick finally is a start. Id use our 3rd and 4th to trade up tho(not our 5th...the round where we do our best for some reason. Half of our top ten prospects were picked in the 5th). We need quality not quantity. Already have plenty of similar prospects...and a logjam. Starting to see them spread around the league now .

 

[LOGiK]

Sid 4th in scoring only behind Koochy, Mcditty, and Patrick 'I don't pay fo' no f***ing taxi' Kane.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Goat has spoken

What a captain

I am not crazy about my man Malkin after this one, not at all, but I would like to suggest that Kessel should get demoted to the 4th line when Rust returns.... Not like that is going to happen, but he has been (for literally months) everything I cautioned against during last season, before this season and throughout this season even when he was producing early on (again).
Cult hero for many or not, this should be his last season as a Pen, no matter what he ends up doing in the playoffs. Get the best possible futures package we can for him after the season, and raid... say.... Columbus for an UFA replacement. Just sick of watching him.

Before we demote a P/G forward to the 4th line, can we please play him opposite a speedy 2-way player like McCann or Rust since ZAR is visibly shit and Kessel's most successful periods were beside Hagelin, whose skillset couldn't more obviously complement Kessel?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think the actual answer is Jagr, as crazy as that sounds. I guess we need to see Jake do it for a couple more years but I think outside of Sid & Geno (who don't count as they didn't develop here really) Jake is the best in-house guy since Jags!

Staal - Jake is better
Straka - Jake is better
Kovalev - this is tough, depends on how much development you think he did in NYR versus here
Naslund - same thing as Kovalev but in reverse
Do we count Morozov's stats in the RSL/KHL? or nah?

Jake's been incredible, but Straka did once finish tied for 4th in NHL scoring. That's pretty f***ing impressive.

 

[LOGiK]

What a captain



Before we demote a P/G forward to the 4th line, can we please play him opposite a speedy 2-way player like McCann or Rust since ZAR is visibly **** and Kessel's most successful periods were beside Hagelin, whose skillset couldn't more obviously complement Kessel?

If I was on that penguins squad I'd put a boom box with this song on for Kessel to groove to... enjoy... and chill the f*** out.



yeah the original by toots is better but this is more uppity

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I wish we could trade Kessel and Maatta for somebody similar to Jake who could play with Geno.

Allow me to blow your mind.

Skinner is a UFA this summer. He'll probably make about 8.5 mil per.

Kessel's 6.8 mil per. Maatta's 4 mil per.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

yeah the original by toots is better but this is more uppity

Your caption made the like happen

 

[LOGiK]

Your caption made the like happen

I figure I want phil bouncing and not grooving to some reggae. Toots are magic though no doubt.

While we are at it.
Phil gets this no doubt:

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

What a captain



Before we demote a P/G forward to the 4th line, can we please play him opposite a speedy 2-way player like McCann or Rust since ZAR is visibly **** and Kessel's most successful periods were beside Hagelin, whose skillset couldn't more obviously complement Kessel?

While Hags was great...Bonino did more for that line. So patient with the puck and very underrated playmaker. Allowing Kessel to do his thing. No idea why it only comes in streaks but in those playoffs he was ridiculous. No HBK without Bones. Can Bjugstad do that? Brassard couldnt. I think we would need to see McCann with him (whether its Bjugstad at center or McCann) since Jared is the closest to Bonino. High IQ. Havent even scratched the surface with him. Starting off at 19 on a shit Canucks team. Then traded to Panthers and only playing 30 games. And traded again his 4th season at age 22, when guys usually enter the NHL for us. But finally on a solid team. And him starting off well like this will do wonders for his development. Sometimes all it takes is some damn luck..go on a 5 game stretch or so putting up points to get confidence going. Whether that's with young players or guys on new teams. Was waiting for one of those stretches with Brassard but never happened. Just not a good fit. Anyway thats already happened with McCann and now on the first line. Facing tough matchups every night(than hes ever faced) , Id keep him there another 5 or so games and then put him with Kessel for the last 10 games.

Malkin im not worried about come playoff time. He was injured. Kessel I am. Since Sully made it clear he wasnt hurt...we all thought he had to be after seeing him play that bad. But now its continued. Malkin obviously way more talented than Bonino but Kessel was at his best with him. McCann not as polished but hopefully finishes strong and they go...

McCann- Bjugstad- Kessel

As for the playoffs we looked at guys like Simon and ZAR last year and say they didnt produce. But when we won b2b cups, with Crosby/Malkin and HBK(Guentzel year 2), Cullen centering the 4th and being the playmaker he was alot easier for other guys to get more opportunities. Big reason why Rust and Sheary were solid. Guys like Archibald and Scott Wilson even looked good. We will see what happens this year. We know line 1 will do damage. Malkin should be fine(if Rust isnt back Id honestly put Blueger with him if McCann goes to line 3 like I want) . We'll see what the new guys do and Kessel. I like our chances better than last year

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Adding to that...Letang being a Norris type right now compared to what he was last year could be the biggest factor in the playoffs. As long as hes fully healthy. That better not have ruined his play when he comes back.

 

[EightyOne]

Just one more thing:

That's a good hockey game. A LOT of offensive talent was on display. Both teams made a lot of pretty little plays.

Many games don't showcase the amount of quick tip passes, kick plays, or vision that happened in this game.

 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrots]

I know most of us at some point or another* have been irritated, baffled, aghast, whathaveyou at some** of jmjr's moves over the past couple seasons but full credit and god ******* bless his crotchety old ass getting Jake's new contract locked in early


*or generally since draft day 2k17
**many to pretty much all

 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrots]

Kooch sure. Kane and McDavid are reasonable, but also not dragging their team's to the playoffs so...

Seems there have been times when they seek reasons not to at least keep him in consideration bc...too easy, i guess?

Kuch is a no-brainer choice, so we'll see how that goes

 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrots]

I can argue Sid should have at least 3 more mvp's. His performances get marginalized because of expectations and the idea that Malkin/Letang/etc. means he doesn't have to do as much for his team to be successful.

Which will make it interesting to see what happens with Kucherov

 

[HandshakeLine]

Jake's been incredible, but Straka did once finish tied for 4th in NHL scoring. That's pretty ****ing impressive.

Yeah, my man Marty gets a bad shake, but he's actually a pretty good comparison to Jake. Let's just hope Jake has better off-ice luck.